Soldiers deserve footballers wages!
After seeing this group come up on my Facebook, I had a look; http://www.facebook.com/#/group.php?gid=205421148593
I read through some of it, but decided that half of the people were idiots who couldn't spell, and the other half jumped on the bandwagon before it left the station. I wanted to see what people with a little bit more sense (and better grammar) really think about this, so I posted it here.
Please don't let this turn into a passionate emotional argument. Be sensible and reasonable without resorting to U WUDNT LAST 10 SECONDS IN DA ARMY U PUSSY or anything along those lines. Due to the many wars around the world, I think it would be hard to find someone who is in a family that was not affected by war. My grandfather was in WW2, was captured by the Germans at one point, and was one of the last soldiers off Dunkirk. I'm sure many other people on here have something similar, or have even been in the forces themselves, so I don't want anyone claiming to be more army than someone else.
A few things to consider:
Every person who joins the forces has a choice to do so. Would you work at Tesco under the same conditions?
I read that 99.98% of kids who play football aren't even looked at by an academy scout (and therefore have no chance of going professional). This means that those who make it are highly skilled individuals.
Being pretty average in all respects, would it be wrong of me to assume I couldn't easily get into the army? My friend recently joined the navy, and said that the army exam were questions such as which of these shapes is a triangle.
Is it just footballers? Actors are paid huge amounts too. Footballers' careers last at the most twenty years, and many are too thick to get a job afterwards in the media or as a manager or coach. So in that respect, should they be paid more for the time while they are working, or is it their own fault for not paying attention in school?
Top level footballers become celebrities and national heroes, is this right or wrong? David Beckham has won nothing with England, but he is more well known than the current defence secretary.
Is it a noble thing to die for your country? The people on the other side are dying for their country. Both sides can justify their cause for war, so who is in the right?
Is it really a noble thing to take up a profession knowing that you may have to kill people? Is it really in defence of this nation when fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan? No one has found any nukes, so does that mean they aren't a threat? They didn't need nukes to blow up the World Trade Centre.
To some Afghans and Iraqis our troops are the bad guys, is this just a matter of perspective? Footballers may cheat, lie, spit, swear, fight etc. but they don't have the option to shoot anyone in their job description.
Footballers sometimes change teams based on who will give them more money, whereas soldiers don't switch sides, so loyalty is good, but then the Nazi soldiers were loyal, does that mean they weren't in the wrong?
We are all very grateful to the soldiers who risked and lost their lives in both World Wars, but is there much to be grateful about those in Afghanistan or Iraq? Perhaps that was just Bush and Blair in their thirst for oil, but unlike the 1940s, these current soldiers had the choice to sign on. Like I asked in another thread earlier; would you run across a motorway to save your family? Would you run across a motorway as a job?
I do believe that some footballers get paid way too much, and that in the interest of fairness, there should be a wage cap. I also believe that there are very few honest professionals left in the game who show the true meaning of sportsmanship.
I would like someone to explain to me why they joined the forces, or if they have applied, what were the reasons? I want to travel the world and learn new skills, but I don't believe I could risk my life, miss my family, and kill other people to do so. If the job benefits are so strong to face those circumstances, do soldiers really need to be paid higher wages?
Unfortunately round here there are a lot of army and navy bases, which attract those who are bored or can't find a job, which throws in the chance of never seeing them again.
Footballers are highly skilled individuals – I think there are only four thousand professional footballers in the country. If you are someone who likes football but thinks they are paid sickly amounts, by buying shirts, buying tickets, watching games on television etc. you are contributing to the spiral, as football teams will pay the most money for the best players.
So what do you think? Am I misinformed? Am I talking ********? Please tell me if you agree or disagree, and what with. If I don't understand, I want to understand. This is how people learn and develop as a society. Please do not let this turn into an argument fuelled by emotions. Offer facts and educated opinions so that we may understand each other, and maybe even learn something new.
I read through some of it, but decided that half of the people were idiots who couldn't spell, and the other half jumped on the bandwagon before it left the station. I wanted to see what people with a little bit more sense (and better grammar) really think about this, so I posted it here.
Please don't let this turn into a passionate emotional argument. Be sensible and reasonable without resorting to U WUDNT LAST 10 SECONDS IN DA ARMY U PUSSY or anything along those lines. Due to the many wars around the world, I think it would be hard to find someone who is in a family that was not affected by war. My grandfather was in WW2, was captured by the Germans at one point, and was one of the last soldiers off Dunkirk. I'm sure many other people on here have something similar, or have even been in the forces themselves, so I don't want anyone claiming to be more army than someone else.
A few things to consider:
Every person who joins the forces has a choice to do so. Would you work at Tesco under the same conditions?
I read that 99.98% of kids who play football aren't even looked at by an academy scout (and therefore have no chance of going professional). This means that those who make it are highly skilled individuals.
Being pretty average in all respects, would it be wrong of me to assume I couldn't easily get into the army? My friend recently joined the navy, and said that the army exam were questions such as which of these shapes is a triangle.
Is it just footballers? Actors are paid huge amounts too. Footballers' careers last at the most twenty years, and many are too thick to get a job afterwards in the media or as a manager or coach. So in that respect, should they be paid more for the time while they are working, or is it their own fault for not paying attention in school?
Top level footballers become celebrities and national heroes, is this right or wrong? David Beckham has won nothing with England, but he is more well known than the current defence secretary.
Is it a noble thing to die for your country? The people on the other side are dying for their country. Both sides can justify their cause for war, so who is in the right?
Is it really a noble thing to take up a profession knowing that you may have to kill people? Is it really in defence of this nation when fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan? No one has found any nukes, so does that mean they aren't a threat? They didn't need nukes to blow up the World Trade Centre.
To some Afghans and Iraqis our troops are the bad guys, is this just a matter of perspective? Footballers may cheat, lie, spit, swear, fight etc. but they don't have the option to shoot anyone in their job description.
Footballers sometimes change teams based on who will give them more money, whereas soldiers don't switch sides, so loyalty is good, but then the Nazi soldiers were loyal, does that mean they weren't in the wrong?
We are all very grateful to the soldiers who risked and lost their lives in both World Wars, but is there much to be grateful about those in Afghanistan or Iraq? Perhaps that was just Bush and Blair in their thirst for oil, but unlike the 1940s, these current soldiers had the choice to sign on. Like I asked in another thread earlier; would you run across a motorway to save your family? Would you run across a motorway as a job?
I do believe that some footballers get paid way too much, and that in the interest of fairness, there should be a wage cap. I also believe that there are very few honest professionals left in the game who show the true meaning of sportsmanship.
I would like someone to explain to me why they joined the forces, or if they have applied, what were the reasons? I want to travel the world and learn new skills, but I don't believe I could risk my life, miss my family, and kill other people to do so. If the job benefits are so strong to face those circumstances, do soldiers really need to be paid higher wages?
Unfortunately round here there are a lot of army and navy bases, which attract those who are bored or can't find a job, which throws in the chance of never seeing them again.
Footballers are highly skilled individuals – I think there are only four thousand professional footballers in the country. If you are someone who likes football but thinks they are paid sickly amounts, by buying shirts, buying tickets, watching games on television etc. you are contributing to the spiral, as football teams will pay the most money for the best players.
So what do you think? Am I misinformed? Am I talking ********? Please tell me if you agree or disagree, and what with. If I don't understand, I want to understand. This is how people learn and develop as a society. Please do not let this turn into an argument fuelled by emotions. Offer facts and educated opinions so that we may understand each other, and maybe even learn something new.
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It's called capitalism. Footballers generate more money so get paid more. Simple.
It's supply and demand. There are very few highly skilled footballers, and there is a massive demand for them, on the other hand, there are many more potential soldiers than there is a demand for. If we paid people based on emotions we would pay nurses more than doctors. Of course the doctors would then become nurses and you would be left without any doctors.
Staatssicherheit
It's called capitalism. Footballers generate more money so get paid more. Simple.
True. The government needs the tax off the high earners (forgetting the ones who move their accounts offshore). But do they really deserve the amounts they get paid? In one respect it is hardly a tough life because you will have more money than sense and will get to do pretty much anything you want, but on the other hand it's not like Wayne Rooney could just stroll down to McDonalds like you or I without being harrassed for photos or autograps. So they are free to do what they want, but have some basic freedoms taken away.
I know which I'd rather choose though. If I was that rich I would pay someone to go to McDonalds for me, or get my chauffeur to attempt to drive a limo through the drive-thru.
Staatssicherheit
It's called capitalism. Footballers generate more money so get paid more. Simple.
It's not really a free market, though, because soldiers are paid by the government, not the highest bidder, and the government doesn't operate as a capitalist system itself. Comparing the two in that respect is pointless at best.
Yeah let's pay soldiers mental wages, let's pay the hired killers! Because that won't stop young boys joining the army and killing themselves will it? Let's encourage more kids to drop out of school.
Peoples stupidity never ceases to amaze me, and that whole ''well you couldn't do it'' argument is such a crap point; yes I couldn't go to Iraq but I don't need to as I listened In school. So what if it's dangerous, they know the risks.
Peoples stupidity never ceases to amaze me, and that whole ''well you couldn't do it'' argument is such a crap point; yes I couldn't go to Iraq but I don't need to as I listened In school. So what if it's dangerous, they know the risks.
If soldiers got footballers wages, we would be in **** loads of debt.
Staatssicherheit
It's called capitalism. Footballers generate more money so get paid more. Simple.
I see this so much in debates that it is starting to annoy me. The question wasn't what does happen but what should happen. Notice the key word 'deserve' in the thread title?
That group is wholly idiotic, I wrote a rant that I saved on my pc and intended to post on the board at some point, but that meant joining the group ...
In short, footballers are hard to replace, covering for Rooney on Saturday would be near impossible, but - with the greatest respect - almost anyone could join the army (especially if they was paying that much). Also, the government pays soldiers, so it would obviously mean billions more in taxes for the rest of us, footballers are paid privately.
In short, footballers are hard to replace, covering for Rooney on Saturday would be near impossible, but - with the greatest respect - almost anyone could join the army (especially if they was paying that much). Also, the government pays soldiers, so it would obviously mean billions more in taxes for the rest of us, footballers are paid privately.
tomheppy
I see this so much in debates that it is starting to annoy me. The question wasn't what does happen but what should happen. Notice the key word 'deserve' in the thread title?
Ok - I think few would argue that soldiers don't deserve footballers wages, they do a difficult and demanding job a long way from home. But should soldiers get footballers wages? Of course not! It's not practical, it's not affordable, and it's not economically sensible to do so.
I don't know why anyone uses the 'You couldn't do it' line at all - the people in the military are not superheroes. They're no different to you or me. If I wanted to, I certainly could head down to an AFCO and sign myself up for a tour of duty, any time I felt like it, just like many thousands of people like me have done before. Hell with my qualifications I could probably go in for officer training.
But it's this normality which makes them special. They aren't superheroes, they're ordinary people doing extraordinary things and risking life and limb as they do it.
But it's this normality which makes them special. They aren't superheroes, they're ordinary people doing extraordinary things and risking life and limb as they do it.
FyreFight
No. It's a stupid petition joined by stupid people.
The only thing which that group seriously advocates is an overhaul of the education system.
The only thing which that group seriously advocates is an overhaul of the education system.
Exactly!
Kiss the education system goodbye, do you think a kid is going to rather go through an added 5 years of education with the risk of being in debt or join the army and earning 50K a week? Hmmm... I want to join that group just so I can tell all the members how retarded that idea is.
Carl
Ok - I think few would argue that soldiers don't deserve footballers wages, they do a difficult and demanding job a long way from home. But should soldiers get footballers wages? Of course not! It's not practical, it's not affordable, and it's not economically sensible to do so.
Perhaps I agree with you but that isn't what my post was stating. I'm sick to death of people making this error again and again. Just because x occurs doesn't mean x should occur. This post is clearly about whether x should occur and thus my quote was directed at a completely irrelevant post.
tomheppy
I see this so much in debates that it is starting to annoy me. The question wasn't what does happen but what should happen. Notice the key word 'deserve' in the thread title?
As an ideal, fine, but a lot of people actually seem to genuinely think this would be a great idea in practice and should really go ahead (just read the comments in some of these groups), I find that astounding.
...Oh and if you're asking if soldiers deserve to have the same wages; the anwser is no.
Footballers deserve soldiers' wages would have been a better group.
But yeah I am getting a bit fed up with people jumping on a swinging about from the Help for Heroes bandwagon.
But yeah I am getting a bit fed up with people jumping on a swinging about from the Help for Heroes bandwagon.
numb3rb0y
It's not really a free market, though, because soldiers are paid by the government, not the highest bidder, and the government doesn't operate as a capitalist system itself. Comparing the two in that respect is pointless at best.
Yeah but we wouldn't have soldiers if the government wasn't there...you could consider them a public good, they wouldn't be around otherwise...
tomheppy
I see this so much in debates that it is starting to annoy me. The question wasn't what does happen but what should happen. Notice the key word 'deserve' in the thread title?
Well as I reside in a capitalist country where success is based on wealth it means they deserve it.
When someone says "Oh Jack's doing well for himself" they mean it in terms of how well off he is.
Based on morals they probably don't deserve it, but money makes the world go round.
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