An education system based upon how much mummy and daddy earn NOT academic ability?
I fail to see how there can be the avoidance of an education system being based on how much one's parents earn as opposed to whether an individual has the academic capability and motivation to attend.
Surely this will result in some of the most able individuals missing out on an education purely due to monetary reasons, which will in turn negatively effect the economy anyway?
It is in times such as these that our economy requires some of the brightest minds and innovations to ensure that this country realises it's capabilities and resumes stability.
This isn't an ideal workd, clearly, but surely political expediance should not be put before some sort of attempt at equal opportunities and widening anticipation?
Surely this will result in some of the most able individuals missing out on an education purely due to monetary reasons, which will in turn negatively effect the economy anyway?
It is in times such as these that our economy requires some of the brightest minds and innovations to ensure that this country realises it's capabilities and resumes stability.
This isn't an ideal workd, clearly, but surely political expediance should not be put before some sort of attempt at equal opportunities and widening anticipation?
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angelmxxx
Everybody gets a FULL TUITION FEE LOAN to be paid back GRADUALLY when they earn over £21k.
How on earth does that mean someone whose parents aren't rich can't afford to go?
There haven't been upfront undergraduate uni fees in England for years.
How on earth does that mean someone whose parents aren't rich can't afford to go?
There haven't been upfront undergraduate uni fees in England for years.
you ever heard of loan interest?
guess not.
angelmxxx
Everybody gets a FULL TUITION FEE LOAN to be paid back GRADUALLY when they earn over £21k.
How on earth does that mean someone whose parents aren't rich can't afford to go?
There haven't been upfront undergraduate uni fees in England for years.
How on earth does that mean someone whose parents aren't rich can't afford to go?
There haven't been upfront undergraduate uni fees in England for years.
It surely depends on the course which one is studying. i am fortunate enough to be studying medicine and I have learnt first hand how extra costs can soon mount up. Especially when the course is 5 years long. Travel costs to and from your outblocks are no longer covered.
The fee loan is a pittance and barely covers the requirements. Not only that it's the principle that people are going to think "If its going to cost 100k i wont bother" its dissuading people from education because they are grossly off put by the enormous monetary cost.
The loan interest is inflation or inflation+governmental borrowing cost. This is just about the lowest interest you can ever get on a loan apart from through your parents (or something similar.)
Miss_Scarlett
I fail to see how there can be the avoidance of an education system being based on how much one's parents earn as opposed to whether an individual has the academic capability and motivation to attend.
Surely this will result in some of the most able individuals missing out on an education purely due to monetary reasons, which will in turn negatively effect the economy anyway?
It is in times such as these that our economy requires some of the brightest minds and innovations to ensure that this country realises it's capabilities and resumes stability.
This isn't an ideal workd, clearly, but surely political expediance should not be put before some sort of attempt at equal opportunities and widening anticipation?
Surely this will result in some of the most able individuals missing out on an education purely due to monetary reasons, which will in turn negatively effect the economy anyway?
It is in times such as these that our economy requires some of the brightest minds and innovations to ensure that this country realises it's capabilities and resumes stability.
This isn't an ideal workd, clearly, but surely political expediance should not be put before some sort of attempt at equal opportunities and widening anticipation?
Oh please, can everyone shut the fudge up with the "daddy's money" comments, you lot are so annoying!
No, it's not ideal, and I think there are better things they could do, but it's certainly not the worst scenario. Most people take loans anyway so what's the difference?
Oh and equal opportunities doesn't exactly work. I hate champagne socialists banging on about equality. We all have the chance to rise to the top, some don't take it (a few exceptions, but generally). Simple.
Miss_Scarlett
It surely depends on the course which one is studying. i am fortunate enough to be studying medicine and I have learnt first hand how extra costs can soon mount up. Especially when the course is 5 years long. Travel costs to and from your outblocks are no longer covered.
The fee loan is a pittance and barely covers the requirements. Not only that it's the principle that people are going to think "If its going to cost 100k i wont bother" its dissuading people from education because they are grossly off put by the enormous monetary cost.
The fee loan is a pittance and barely covers the requirements. Not only that it's the principle that people are going to think "If its going to cost 100k i wont bother" its dissuading people from education because they are grossly off put by the enormous monetary cost.
Why are 'poor students' going to be put off doing the course they want at a top uni if there are obvious graduate benefits - eg. doctor's salary or an Oxford degree being likely to get you a top job!
Poor students are not stupid, they can assess the benefits of a degree just like anyone else!
And yes I know - I'm not arguing that the fee rises are right, just arguing against your suggestion that poor students will be put off more than any other student (apart from a very very small % of students whose parents will pay their fees).
EVERYBODY can get the loan and go and study medicine/whatever they want.
I'm not sure that interest is the issue. I think considering, students get a good deal on loan interest.
I just wonder the impact thats its going to have in terms of applications for the longer courses such as medicine, dentistry and architecture etc. There is a big push currently for widening the cohort that are accepted and abolishing the "old school boys network" , i just wonder how the idea of £ 100 000 worth of fees will effect the widening anticipation drive?
I just wonder the impact thats its going to have in terms of applications for the longer courses such as medicine, dentistry and architecture etc. There is a big push currently for widening the cohort that are accepted and abolishing the "old school boys network" , i just wonder how the idea of £ 100 000 worth of fees will effect the widening anticipation drive?
Mr. Orange
you ever heard of loan interest?
guess not.
guess not.
There's interest on student loans at the moment 2.2%+inflation. It's a better interest than you can find in any high street bank.
And how exactly does a little bit of interest on a loan stop you going when, generally, you earn more with a degree than you would if you'd chosen not to go to university?
Mr. Orange
you ever heard of loan interest?
guess not.
guess not.
err - are you saying that they charge interest only to poor students? sorry what?
everyone with the same salary pays the same interest - no matter if your parents are billionaires or in poverty.
Also it's the cheapest loan ever, inflation+govt cost of borrowing.
What did you expect with a Tory government?
:/
:/
Miss_Scarlett
I'm not sure that interest is the issue. I think considering, students get a good deal on loan interest.
I just wonder the impact thats its going to have in terms of applications for the longer courses such as medicine, dentistry and architecture etc. There is a big push currently for widening the cohort that are accepted and abolishing the "old school boys network" , i just wonder how the idea of £ 100 000 worth of fees will effect the widening anticipation drive?
I just wonder the impact thats its going to have in terms of applications for the longer courses such as medicine, dentistry and architecture etc. There is a big push currently for widening the cohort that are accepted and abolishing the "old school boys network" , i just wonder how the idea of £ 100 000 worth of fees will effect the widening anticipation drive?
what I said above - STUDENTS FROM LOW INCOME FAMILIES ARE NOT TOO STUPID TO REALISE THAT YOU'RE VERY LIKELY TO GET EMPLOYED ON A HIGH SALARY WITH A MEDICAL DEGREE!
it's just insulting to assume that they'll be put off to be honest.
.Ali.
Oh and equal opportunities doesn't exactly work. I hate champagne socialists banging on about equality. We all have the chance to rise to the top, some don't take it (a few exceptions, but generally). Simple.
Oh and equal opportunities doesn't exactly work. I hate champagne socialists banging on about equality. We all have the chance to rise to the top, some don't take it (a few exceptions, but generally). Simple.
I would love to agree with you, in the principle that "those who want to can, and those who don't won't" but life is not that simple.
You cannot any longer simply "rise to the top" if you do not have the means to do so. Many people are currently jostling to get a job because there are too few to go around. The fee loan is a very basic salary which can be difficult to utilise fully to an 18 year old who is managing their finances for the first time, some courses are intense and therefore it is not an option to get a part time job without the potential for jeopardising studies.
I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it is surely making it harder and harder for those from less privileged backgrounds?
I study medicine also, and I HAVE to work to support myself, otherwise I quite simply wouldn't be able to afford it. I finish regularly finish work at 3am and then have to get up at 8am for uni.
The raise in tuition WILL put people off university, particularly longer degrees, as they may not be able to fund themselves through it. It would also spell an end to graduate medicine as graduates are not entitled to any fee support.
The rich will be able to pay for it, the poor will have it paid for them, it's those in the middle like me who will have to muddle their way through it.
The raise in tuition WILL put people off university, particularly longer degrees, as they may not be able to fund themselves through it. It would also spell an end to graduate medicine as graduates are not entitled to any fee support.
The rich will be able to pay for it, the poor will have it paid for them, it's those in the middle like me who will have to muddle their way through it.
angelmxxx
err - are you saying that they charge interest only to poor students? sorry what?
everyone with the same salary pays the same interest - no matter if your parents are billionaires or in poverty.
Also it's the cheapest loan ever, inflation+govt cost of borrowing.
everyone with the same salary pays the same interest - no matter if your parents are billionaires or in poverty.
Also it's the cheapest loan ever, inflation+govt cost of borrowing.
er but people will have to pay more interest (it's exponential which is serious) seeing as their tuition fee loan will have doubled. it's ridiculous
angelmxxx
what I said above - STUDENTS FROM LOW INCOME FAMILIES ARE NOT TOO STUPID TO REALISE THAT YOU'RE VERY LIKELY TO GET EMPLOYED ON A HIGH SALARY WITH A MEDICAL DEGREE!
it's just insulting to assume that they'll be put off to be honest.
it's just insulting to assume that they'll be put off to be honest.
It's not insulting because from going into schools which are seen to be in socioeconomically deprived areas, to talk about a career in medicine, this seems to be a prevalent attitude.
I am merely speaking as I have found.
Mr. Orange
you ever heard of loan interest?
guess not.
guess not.
What has loan interest got to do with "how much mummy and daddy earn" when they're not the ones paying it?
fantasystar38
I study medicine also, and I HAVE to work to support myself, otherwise I quite simply wouldn't be able to afford it. I finish regularly finish work at 3am and then have to get up at 8am for uni.
The raise in tuition WILL put people off university, particularly longer degrees, as they may not be able to fund themselves through it. It would also spell an end to graduate medicine as graduates are not entitled to any fee support.
The rich will be able to pay for it, the poor will have it paid for them, it's those in the middle like me who will have to muddle their way through it.
The raise in tuition WILL put people off university, particularly longer degrees, as they may not be able to fund themselves through it. It would also spell an end to graduate medicine as graduates are not entitled to any fee support.
The rich will be able to pay for it, the poor will have it paid for them, it's those in the middle like me who will have to muddle their way through it.
Thank you. Finally someone who is seeing the other side of this.
Also major respect to you for your part time job, I know there is absolutely no way I could do what you are doing. Medicine is exhausting enough.
.Ali.
Oh please, can everyone shut the fudge up with the "daddy's money" comments, you lot are so annoying!
I don't think Mc Tarquinius in your sig is going to like that.
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