The Student Room Group

What is the point of SATs exams in year 6?

If a pupil does really well in their SATs exams maybe they get 95% their achievement means nothing because virtually all secondary schools do not segregate pupils in year 7 based on academic ability. So a pupil who gets 95% will be put into classes with those who might have got less than 5%, the unmotivated ones who don’t want to be in school and will mess about and slow down the lessons to their own ability.
So that pupil who got 95% put in immense effort only to end up in a class at the level of the lowest achievers. So what is the point of SATs?

What would be better is to give year 7 students their options in year 7 instead of year 10. Then they have a better chance of studying among students of their own ability. Let them drop pointless subjects and do ones of their own choosing.
(edited 5 months ago)
Reply 1
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil does really well in their SATs exams maybe they get 95% their achievement means nothing because virtually all secondary schools do not segregate pupils in year 7 based on academic ability. So a pupil who gets 95% will be put into classes with those who might have got less than 5%, the unmotivated ones who don’t want to be in school and will mess about and slow down the lessons to their own ability.
So that pupil who got 95% put in immense effort only to end up in a class at the level of the lowest achievers. So what is the point of SATs?

What would be better is to give year 7 students their options in year 7 instead of year 10. Then they have a better chance of studying among students of their own ability. Let them drop pointless subjects and do ones of their own choosing.


Primary schools are judged by their SATs results. And where as you are right, secondaries do do their own testing, their Progress 8 and Attainment 8 scores are based on the value added they give to each pupil based on their SATs scores. High SATs scores are great for primaries but a headache for secondaries.

It is all part of the golden panacea in education which sees the whole sector striving to be above average!

Incidentally, given schools offer a broad curriculum which cover the basis of general knowledge, just exactly which subjects are pointless?
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by Ambitious1999
What would be better is to give year 7 students their options in year 7 instead of year 10. Then they have a better chance of studying among students of their own ability. Let them drop pointless subjects and do ones of their own choosing.

I think you're wildly overestimating the ability of a year 7 to make any kind of important decision rationally.
Ranking primary schools which in the educational culture I was mainly educated in (in rural Wales) is a completely foreign concept (and we don't have SATs in Wales).

I can see why parents might want those metrics in a more densely populated area with selective schools (like Kent, where I had the bigger chunk of my primary education) but I find primary school league tables conceptually bizarre.
Other than to know what sets to put pupils in when they enter Year 7, I don’t see the point of sats (especially KS1 ones) and they ought to be scrapped.
Original post by hotpud
Primary schools are judged by their SATs results. And where as you are right, secondaries do do their own testing, their Progress 8 and Attainment 8 scores are based on the value added they give to each pupil based on their SATs scores. High SATs scores are great for primaries but a headache for secondaries.

It is all part of the golden panacea in education which sees the whole sector striving to be above average!

Incidentally, given schools offer a broad curriculum which cover the basis of general knowledge, just exactly which subjects are pointless?

If a pupil is interested in sciences (maybe they want to be a doctor or engineer) then history, music and religious studies are irrelevant to them and they’d be better doing more physics, chemistry and biology.
Reply 6
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil is interested in sciences (maybe they want to be a doctor or engineer) then history, music and religious studies are irrelevant to them and they’d be better doing more physics, chemistry and biology.

Ah - gotcha. Except you are simply considering that a subject has an absolute purpose at some point in the future. So let us say that student studies science and then goes on to become a doctor and on day one his first patient starts to talk about some sort of historical event or a piece of music. That doctor then looks pretty ignorant in that situation as they have nothing to say about it.

Sometimes knowing about the world around us at a basic level on all matters is very very important. And the more learned you are about the world around, almost certainly the better your literacy. Being educated is about knowing about the wider world around you. That is massively more valuable that any single piece of knowledge that might lead to a future job. To state that education is only for a purpose is to effectively turn us into robots whose sole purpose in life is to fulfil some sort of job. Surely there is more to life than that?
(edited 5 months ago)
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil is interested in sciences (maybe they want to be a doctor or engineer) then history, music and religious studies are irrelevant to them and they’d be better doing more physics, chemistry and biology.

It is hard to choose what you want to do if you have not had much of an exposure to all subjects. In Year 7 I wanted to be a doctor. In Year 10 I realised I hated sciences and was considering a PPE degree. Students should keep their options open until a certain stage in order to not shut any doors, which I think the current system of GCSEs and A Levels does already.

Perhaps there are some who are certain they want to be a doctor or engineer and don't want to do humanity subjects, but the vast majority would be unsure what they want to do. The system should cater for the majority. It is better for a system to make you do more subjects and force you to keep more doors open than forcing you to make hard choices too soon, otherwise if you made the wrong choice many people would have to redo years of school.
Original post by Talkative Toad
Other than to know what sets to put pupils in when they enter Year 7, I don’t see the point of sats (especially KS1 ones) and they ought to be scrapped.


It is true there isn't much point of KS1 sats. I suppose an advantage to KS2 sats, aside from being a way to set pupils in secondary, is that it can be the experience of a first 'big' exam to many students, especially those that didn't take the 11+. I personally wouldn't want the first big exam I did in school to be my GCSEs. It was nice knowing for my GCSEs that it wasn't the first time in my life I would be sitting in a big hall doing an exam that actually mattered. It is also good to get lots of exam practice in that regard to help learn how to deal with exam stress.
Original post by missling40
It is true there isn't much point of KS1 sats. I suppose an advantage to KS2 sats, aside from being a way to set pupils in secondary, is that it can be the experience of a first 'big' exam to many students, especially those that didn't take the 11+. I personally wouldn't want the first big exam I did in school to be my GCSEs. It was nice knowing for my GCSEs that it wasn't the first time in my life I would be sitting in a big hall doing an exam that actually mattered. It is also good to get lots of exam practice in that regard to help learn how to deal with exam stress.

I mean some schools and pupils didn't even do sats, so their first exams would have been GCSEs. Or even worse, take students who did their A-levels in 2022, most of that Cohort wouldn't have sat any GCSE exams and some of them might not have even sat sats meaning that their first exams would have been A-levels. I take your point though.
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil does really well in their SATs exams maybe they get 95% their achievement means nothing because virtually all secondary schools do not segregate pupils in year 7 based on academic ability. So a pupil who gets 95% will be put into classes with those who might have got less than 5%, the unmotivated ones who don’t want to be in school and will mess about and slow down the lessons to their own ability.
So that pupil who got 95% put in immense effort only to end up in a class at the level of the lowest achievers. So what is the point of SATs?

What would be better is to give year 7 students their options in year 7 instead of year 10. Then they have a better chance of studying among students of their own ability. Let them drop pointless subjects and do ones of their own choosing.


My school did.
Original post by Talkative Toad
I mean some schools and pupils didn't even do sats, so their first exams would have been GCSEs. Or even worse, take students who did their A-levels in 2022, most of that Cohort wouldn't have sat any GCSE exams and some of them might not have even sat sats meaning that their first exams would have been A-levels. I take your point though.

That's very true! I guess it depends on what people prefer and whether they would have found it helpful to have that experience before GCSEs/A Levels.
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil is interested in sciences (maybe they want to be a doctor or engineer) then history, music and religious studies are irrelevant to them and they’d be better doing more physics, chemistry and biology.

Very few students make the same choices in Year 9 as they would make it Year 7. There is a statutory National Curriculum that everyone studies in KS3.

We don't set in Year 7 for Maths because this would judge students on how good their Primary school was. End of Year 7 ranking are often very different to KS2 test scores [they are not SATs].
Original post by hotpud
Primary schools are judged by their SATs results. And where as you are right, secondaries do do their own testing, their Progress 8 and Attainment 8 scores are based on the value added they give to each pupil based on their SATs scores. High SATs scores are great for primaries but a headache for secondaries.

It is all part of the golden panacea in education which sees the whole sector striving to be above average!

Incidentally, given schools offer a broad curriculum which cover the basis of general knowledge, just exactly which subjects are pointless?

Only Progress 8 is linked to KS tests - attainment 8 is not.
Original post by Ambitious1999
If a pupil is interested in sciences (maybe they want to be a doctor or engineer) then history, music and religious studies are irrelevant to them and they’d be better doing more physics, chemistry and biology.

you are a dangerous fool.

ironically some of the best lawyers, doctors and engineers i know have a deep passion for their performing arts activities or the visual art they create , others are expert sports people

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending