The Student Room Group

Dance and Trance Music Society

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Reply 780
GeneralOfTheSuperSubSquad
You can't dance to dance!


I think you'll find we can and in general people do. Stop trying to be controversial.

About the hip-hop DJs again, DJDJ. :rolleyes: I'll just restate what has been said. Dance DJs, whether they be using CDs, vinyl or both, have a wide variety of tricks available to them and i'm sure the best dance DJs out there can do just about anything they desire with their equipment. But as we both know, the demand for tricks in dance music isn't as high - a demand does exist, as Eddie Halliwell proves. And even if hip-hop DJs do have better "tricks" it doesn't make them better DJs for the reasons i've already explained in this topic. Yeah, an inability to do tricks may make someone a sh*tty hip-hop DJ but the same doesn't apply to a dance DJ.
People like umek and dave clarke are amazing to watch with their skills
Dance is always more moving than hip-hop
Reply 783
well i dont really know many cds because i just buy vinyl. but........

http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/simpleSearch.do?pGroupID=1&simpleSearchString=ltj+bukem&primaryID=1

any of those would be good, ltj bukems logical progression series.

or

http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/simpleSearch.do?pGroupID=1&simpleSearchString=liquid+sessions&primaryID=1

the liquid sessions.

The above are all mixed cds, spose if you wanted to you could by artist ablums, but i prefer mixed cds personally.

and phil! no! a dance dj can not do half the stuff a hip-hop dj does!

EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!!! the first few tricks he does are beat juggling! easy aint it!? now im pretty sure someone like tiesto could NOT do that, just as any DnB dj couldn't do that (well actually maybe not, hype did represent the uk in the DMC championships)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=axJZzeYGb60&search=dmc%20champion
Reply 784
DJDJ


EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!!! the first few tricks he does are beat juggling! easy aint it!? now im pretty sure someone like tiesto could NOT do that, just as any DnB dj couldn't do that (well actually maybe not, hype did represent the uk in the DMC championships)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=axJZzeYGb60&search=dmc%20champion


I'm sorry, mate. But you've failed to impress me. Or even educated me, as you so patronisingly put it.

1. I wasn't the one that said beat juggling was easy. Mark was. I've never beat juggled and have never assumed it to be easy.
2. The beat jungling in that video may look impressive (with his hands flying all over the place) but frankly, in terms of how good it sounds, it's the weakest part of the whole video. I mean, i'm no hip-hop DJing expert but some person in the comments has said "step it up kid basic scratchs. weak juggles try again sorry 4 playing!" Don't look at me... i never said it.
3. Check out Eddie and try and tell me it's not technically impressive. In my view, it sounds a lot better too. Remember too that he's doing this live, in a large club, in front of a big crowd, with CDs and he's doing it with a hard house record in one and introduces a Tiesto track in the other. I've no doubt a lot of the mixing in this set is beat matched aswell. All in all - not easy.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=kk08vk8Pt0o&search=eddie%20halliwell


http://youtube.com/watch?v=cLJ2yr17-As&search=eddie%20halliwell

4. If you actually read through this topic i actually agreed ages ago that Tiesto is an overrated DJ. In my eyes he's a cracking producer (Love Comes Again, Suburban Train, Traffic, Flesh etc) but in terms of trance DJing he doesn't deserve to be up there with AvB and PvD, imho.
5. And you've actually shot your own argument in the foot by pointing out that a DnB DJ represented the UK in the DMC championship. It just goes to show, dance DJs can mix it (if you'll pardon the pun) with the best of them. (Admittedly, my sources do claim that he used to be involved in the hip-hop scene in the late 80s but arguabley that just goes to show that the skills are transferable - theoretically, in both directions.)

Savy?
Anyone going to do the festivals this year?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tcegmXTfDw4&search=jeff%20mills

Jeff mills is great - awesome dj to see live (though i wasnt to keen on this mix as a cd release but its entertaining to watch)
Reply 787
Phil_D

2. The beat jungling in that video may look impressive (with his hands flying all over the place) but frankly, in terms of how good it sounds, it's the weakest part of the whole video. I mean, i'm no hip-hop DJing expert but some person in the comments has said "step it up kid basic scratchs. weak juggles try again sorry 4 playing!" Don't look at me... i never said it.



yea, i agree crab scratching is basic aint it? I think that guy actually won the DMC chamionship, ill have to double check. Basically, when people like craze are judging, who gives a toss what some lil **** says?

How the hell can you say that wasn't impressive? and you dont even mix and you say you wasn't moved at all!? i was sitting her watching and thinking, '**** me, that boys got some serious skills'.

Phil_D
3. Check out Eddie and try and tell me it's not technically impressive. In my view, it sounds a lot better too. Remember too that he's doing this live, in a large club, in front of a big crowd, with CDs and he's doing it with a hard house record in one and introduces a Tiesto track in the other. I've no doubt a lot of the mixing in this set is beat matched aswell. All in all - not easy.



lol, ok im just loading it up now. well of course the bloody tunes are gona be beat matched aren't they! if they weren't, he shouldn't be up there, and m8, beat matching is a piece of piss! (ESPECIALLY WITH CDS!!!) nothing impressive in that at all (espeiclly when its for a 4x4 kick with no bass line)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=kk08vk8Pt0o&search=eddie%20halliwell


http://youtube.com/watch?v=cLJ2yr17-As&search=eddie%20halliwell


Phil_D
5. And you've actually shot your own argument in the foot by pointing out that a DnB DJ represented the UK in the DMC championship. It just goes to show, dance DJs can mix it (if you'll pardon the pun) with the best of them. (Admittedly, my sources do claim that he used to be involved in the hip-hop scene in the late 80s but arguabley that just goes to show that the skills are transferable - theoretically, in both directions.)



well, ermmm, he was a hip-hop dj at the time :rolleyes: . I've said previously that DnB has more in common with hip-hop than any other dance music. And no, the skills are not transferable, a little common sense would tell you that, can you imagine (even if they could) a house or trance dj doing all that? even a dnb dj wouldn't be doing tricks like that. Yes, you're right, hype was involved in the hip-hop scene, for a very long time as was a lot of other dnb djs back in the 80s.

Your argument is stupid, i've always said hip-hop djs have more skill, well, if someone begins to mix it (like hype) and practice hard, then of course their technical skill will increase in leaps and bounds.
Reply 788
youtube is down, so i couldn't watch it. Seriously though m8, if it turns out to be beat matching and simply mixing two tunes together (on cds) then il probably just leave the argument where it is. Unbelievable, it really is!
Reply 789
DJDJ
yea, i agree crab scratching is basic aint it? I think that guy actually won the DMC chamionship, ill have to double check. Basically, when people like craze are judging, who gives a toss what some lil **** says?


I'm just pointing it out though.

You are very quick to dissmiss other people's opinions when they don't agree with your own. Apparently, a group of judges can vote this guy DMC champion and nobody can question that and yet when the whole public vote PvD the best DJ in the world then that is a joke. So i should listen to you about PvD because you are right yet totally ignore someone elses opinion about this oh so brilliant hip-hop giant because he is wrong? Get over yourself.

DJDJ

How the hell can you say that wasn't impressive? and you dont even mix and you say you wasn't moved at all!? i was sitting her watching and thinking, '**** me, that boys got some serious skills'.
.


Yeah, it was good but hardly had my tougue hangin' outta my face. I mean, i thought the scratching was pretty wicked. Didn't think the beat juggling sounded that good tho. And before you shoot me down - i'm being 100% honest and i'm entitled to that opinion.

DJDJ
youtube is down, so i couldn't watch it. Seriously though m8, if it turns out to be beat matching and simply mixing two tunes together (on cds) then il probably just leave the argument where it is. Unbelievable, it really is!


Just watch it before you make a judgement. At least that's what i did with your video. Your entitled to post your opinion but at least watch the videos first.

I maintain that a good trance or house DJ can do a hell of a lot more than just beat match behind his decks.

Oh, and btw. Everyone else out there. Don't be afriad to say your piece. There are 4 videos for you to watch there. 1 of Jeff Mills, 2 of Eddie Halliwell and 1 of this hip-hop guy. Have your say. Does Eddie Halliwell really appear technically inferior to this hip-hop bedroom DJ? Which DJ would you rather pay to see?!
Reply 790
well..........

public vs djs (which includes craze). need i say more?

i will have a look at this bloke (when youtune is back up), but i am expecting more than beat matching.
Reply 791
DJDJ
well..........
public vs djs (which includes craze). need i say more?


Paul Van Dyk must be sh*tting himself! :wink: And Mr. Halliwell is probably on the first plane to the US so that DJ Scratchy Juggley can teach him how to DJ.
Reply 792
ok cool, im watching the first one now, im just pausing it as it goes and wrting what i see him do.

basically, the first 'trick' he's doing doing ~ he has both channels open and is essentially 'cutting' it up, but he's doing it differently, hes cutting the volume on one deck while rasing it on the other (as i write this i realize the 2nd cd hes using probably has samples on it) Cutting the volume distorts the sound a bit, it sounds best one done on vocals, which is what he's doing. BTW, hes doing this with samples, not another tune. and hes playing about with the treble, mid & bass.

I dunno what he's doing with that scratching, never tried scratching on cd decks, although hes not using the cross fader, basically he was using a cd with samples and effects and scratching them, he wasn't using a cross fader. Also, the second he puts the second cd in, he mixes it straight in, i mean it does it instantanously, i admit that maybe he did beat match it that fast, but i doubt he did..................

all this stuff that this eddie bloke was doing, did it impress you? seriously? now that i've exlained what he was doing, does it take the magic out of what he was doing some what? there is no way you can compare that to the hip-hop dj i showed you. Ill watch the second one now.
Reply 793
it sounds good, but its not difficult to do.
Reply 794
the mere fact that this eddie bloke is jumping on the table kinda proves that what hes doing doesn't need his full concentration. bah, try and get him to do everything he just did on cds on vinyl,
Reply 795
LOL, he just jumped down into the crowd! yes! hes an entertainer! super-skilled dj? HELL NO.
Reply 796
the blokes probably good live, aint that skillfull though.
Reply 797


OK, my mate Michael can do this with 80s into 60s into techno into jazz etc, though not as good as this dude. When I said I've done it, I've done this particular trick, but nothing like that. I used to scratch a fair bit when playing for Evo but that guy is ****ing extreme, and I take my hat off to him. With regards to the whole post being about being able to juggle between beats, I can do it with a bar, not per beat like he is doing. Within Hard House mainly, I have done it with bars at a time, but never with a single beat like he is doing. I thought this is what you meant at the time, rather than talking of individual beats, my mistake.

I used to love watching my mate Michael at events when he was ****ing around like that, was hilarious to watch - and I could never rival him.

With my argument on Dance DJs having more available to them, it was (as someone has pointed out) that Dance DJs don't tend to scratch so often and they have more up their sleeve with regards to their mixes, excluding scratching. As I said - and stil lholds true, everything that guy can do with Hip-hop, can be done with Dance. But not everything that can be done with Dance can be done with Hip-hop, due to it's unstable beat structure.

I still don't agree with half of your posts, but I'll put them aside - mainly because I can't be arsed going back to read them, and it would be a hella of a lot of effort for you to simple stic kto your guns and write what you've written before.

I was however, still, a DJ for Evo, signed at the age of 14 and played all over Europe. The fact I didn't know about Brown's Trance productions (which has severaly pissed me off) and that I misunderstood 'beat juggling' doesn't take that away from me. :smile:

Yeh yeh, said I wouldn't post again - but I'm bored... :redface:
Reply 798
DJDJ
ok cool, im watching the first one now, im just pausing it as it goes and wrting what i see him do.

basically, the first 'trick' he's doing doing ~ he has both channels open and is essentially 'cutting' it up, but he's doing it differently, hes cutting the volume on one deck while rasing it on the other (as i write this i realize the 2nd cd hes using probably has samples on it) Cutting the volume distorts the sound a bit, it sounds best one done on vocals, which is what he's doing. BTW, hes doing this with samples, not another tune. and hes playing about with the treble, mid & bass.

I dunno what he's doing with that scratching, never tried scratching on cd decks, although hes not using the cross fader, basically he was using a cd with samples and effects and scratching them, he wasn't using a cross fader. Also, the second he puts the second cd in, he mixes it straight in, i mean it does it instantanously, i admit that maybe he did beat match it that fast, but i doubt he did..................


Wow! For someone who has so little respect CD DJs so much you seem to know a hell of a lot about it. :rolleyes:

No, seriously - let's cut the bullsh*t. I don't need you to explain what he's doing. I've never DJed before so i have no way of knowing whether you are bullsh*tting me for the purposes of the argument or not. Whatever he was doing it didn't look easy to me.

DJDJ

all this stuff that this eddie bloke was doing, did it impress you? seriously? now that i've exlained what he was doing, does it take the magic out of what he was doing some what? there is no way you can compare that to the hip-hop dj i showed you. Ill watch the second one now.


Magic? Stop partronising me, will you?

DJDJ
it sounds good, but its not difficult to do.


Don't believe you for a second. What he's doing there takes years of practice.

DJDJ
the mere fact that this eddie bloke is jumping on the table kinda proves that what hes doing doesn't need his full concentration. bah, try and get him to do everything he just did on cds on vinyl,


Errr - correct me if i'm wrong. But doesn't he jump on the table and then into the crowd after when he's actually playing Traffic. (I'm not 100% sure and i can't check because Youtube is down again.) Surely he's allowed to let the tracks he's playing actually play at some point instead of scratching for the whole set.

DJDJ
yes! hes an entertainer! super-skilled dj? HELL NO.


Not a skilled DJ? Je-sus! :rolleyes: Oh, and god forbid, he can't be an entertainer AND a skilled DJ. DJs don't entertain! They just **** around with records!

DJDJ
the blokes probably good live, aint that skillfull though.


Backtracking or what? Slow backtracking. But backtracking nonetheless. And again? What good is a DJ if he isn't good live?
Reply 799
DJDJ
ok cool, im watching the first one now, im just pausing it as it goes and wrting what i see him do.

basically, the first 'trick' he's doing doing ~ he has both channels open and is essentially 'cutting' it up, but he's doing it differently, hes cutting the volume on one deck while rasing it on the other (as i write this i realize the 2nd cd hes using probably has samples on it) Cutting the volume distorts the sound a bit, it sounds best one done on vocals, which is what he's doing. BTW, hes doing this with samples, not another tune. and hes playing about with the treble, mid & bass.

I dunno what he's doing with that scratching, never tried scratching on cd decks, although hes not using the cross fader, basically he was using a cd with samples and effects and scratching them, he wasn't using a cross fader. Also, the second he puts the second cd in, he mixes it straight in, i mean it does it instantanously, i admit that maybe he did beat match it that fast, but i doubt he did..................

all this stuff that this eddie bloke was doing, did it impress you? seriously? now that i've exlained what he was doing, does it take the magic out of what he was doing some what? there is no way you can compare that to the hip-hop dj i showed you. Ill watch the second one now.


Just watching it. When you first see him, he is beat matching, using his monitor infront of him and his right ear. He then progressed to simply 'chopping' the right Cd into the outgoing left. As good as this sounds, not difficult thus far, although he is mixing the beats; rather than just the normal 4th/ 3rd and 4th he is throwing it in at the beginning of the bar - nice touch. The right CD isn't a sample, it's a track and is looped, which he would have done while beatmatching it at the beginning when you heard the single track and before he started 'chopping'. Your point about cutting the volume (only works in clubs, live - for a decent effect) works best after a roll and just before the first strong defining bass strike of the next bar, as it kicks back from the cut you get a whoomph of the bassline - that is what the effect was originally made to do. To do this with a vocal means you would cut some of the vocal out - which with respect to Dance doesn't sound right. He hasn't touched the treble once - why would he? He has altered the bass and the lower mid-range, to give the 'chopped' loop a bit of an edge on the other. When he scratched the CD, it's the same loop, and he doesn't use the crossfader because he isn't killing the playing track - there is no requirement to. He is scratching over the track, not into the track. He is using his bass kills while doing it as you'll see him changing them on the left CD while scratching. Second time round scratching, he simply needs to start where he finished off as he cued it when he finished up last time - you see him hitting the stop button. couple more mid-range swaps. Next CD in hand, loaded, headphones, beatmatched and into the next track it goes... riding the pitch. A very sharp cross indeed.

Nice mixer too: DJM600 - with effects loaded. Got mine sitting next to me now. :smile:

Can't be arsed commenting on the second one. This particular video, in comparison to the DMC one, isn't as good - though the tracks are better. :wink:

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