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Is David Cameron the worst PM ever?

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Original post by Davethedavedave
The worst ones are.....

Gordon Brown
Tony Blair
James Callaghan
Harold Wilson
Clement Attlee
Ramsay MacDonald

and if labour get lucky next time round, I will add "Edd 'no polices' Miliband" to that list.


Seriously?

A man widely considered the best PM we've ever had and regularly tops polls. I also consider him the best PM we've ever had.

My thoughts on Cameron, certainly no worse than Brown or Blair but he's going rapidly downhill in my books.
Reply 181
Original post by marcusfox
Poor excuse for Tory bashing...

Stop rewriting history - Old Labour ended up at the IMF it was they what ruined the country.

New Labour has now left us a trillion pounds in debt.

Yes, Labour always gives to the poor but always gives what it can’t afford.

Yes, Labour are always the nice guys treating us all to sweeties.

Yes, the Tories are always nasty bastards for facing up to financial reality.

Yes, there will always be those like you that favour Labour because Labour tells them what they want to hear.

Truth is, leaving the nation a trillion pounds in debt is just about as nasty as it gets and, when you factor in that it’s not obviously apparent to anyone just what it was we got in return for all that spending, Labour comes over no better than a bunch of Mafia racketeers.


We might be (as a country) a trillion pounds in debt, but that's money that the government owes mostly to its own people in the form government bonds.
And also, our total debt is still less than the total amount of America's debt (bonds) that we own.
You say that Tories "face up to financial reality", yet they are choosing to do this by scrapping the 50% tax band? :s-smilie: Surely if Labour's "over-spending" was really as bad as they make out, then we wouldn't be able to afford to do that.
Original post by pixxie
We might be (as a country) a trillion pounds in debt, but that's money that the government owes mostly to its own people in the form government bonds.
And also, our total debt is still less than the total amount of America's debt (bonds) that we own.
You say that Tories "face up to financial reality", yet they are choosing to do this by scrapping the 50% tax band? :s-smilie: Surely if Labour's "over-spending" was really as bad as they make out, then we wouldn't be able to afford to do that.


You clearly don't get the issues involved in 50% tax band, judging by the overly simplistic view you have presented.

Simply stating that they can't afford to scrap a 50% tax band as though you are arguing that a 50% tax band will bring in more revenue than a 45% tax band?

That's like me saying that a 100% tax band will bring in more revenue than a 50% tax band.

No, it's utter hogwash. If you're working so much that will push you into the 100% tax band, you're going to think, well, why would I bother? So 100% tax is going to bring in absolutely nothing at all

Which is exactly the same here. For the very few people - maybe 350,000 or so who are going to fall into that band, they will be thinking - why should I bother, and are going to cut back.

It’s the nature of these things that the overwhelming majority will be at or around the margin and only a very very small number will be the super rich.

So straight away you see that anyone around the margin can simply increase their pension contribution and avoid the tax.

The self-employed can simply pay themselves less leaving funds in their company in the hope of more enlightened years ahead.

Or, if they are of a certain age (as many successful self-employed people tend to be) with the house all paid for and money in the bank, they can just choose to take the foot of the gas.

Someone in the entertainment industry, for example, might find the high rate kicking in around January, when all the crap weather that they get to drive many thousands of miles through arrives, might decide stuff that extra tax, cut back on the bookings and have a break playing golf in Tenerife instead.

The important thing to realise is that all of the above examples not only lose the revenue the new 50p rate but the 40p rate (and the National Insurance) they had already been paying that’s why it doesn’t take too many modifying their behaviour for the revenue to lose out.

The truth is, the well off are always in a position to make choices that the low paid can only dream of, which is why all those public sector Guardianista leeches, for all their envious progressive talk, always end up in the end homing in on those with very little for their robber baron taxes.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 183
Original post by pixxie

You say that Tories "face up to financial reality", yet they are choosing to do this by scrapping the 50% tax band? :s-smilie: Surely if Labour's "over-spending" was really as bad as they make out, then we wouldn't be able to afford to do that.


You have no idea. You deluded socialist.
Reply 184
Original post by Davethedavedave
You have no idea. You deluded socialist.

Cameron's doing OK in a difficult environment, I think he has handled himself quite well and things could have definitely been worse.

Big question marks over the health reforms though, I think he is heading for the rocks on that one, fortunately for him the weakness of his rival Ed Miliband means the electorate will probably still favour him at the next election.

I think Cameron will win another term but I think his second term will be a very difficult one, even if the economy starts to improve by then.
Reply 186
Original post by pixxie
We might be (as a country) a trillion pounds in debt, but that's money that the government owes mostly to its own people in the form government bonds.
And also, our total debt is still less than the total amount of America's debt (bonds) that we own.
You say that Tories "face up to financial reality", yet they are choosing to do this by scrapping the 50% tax band? :s-smilie: Surely if Labour's "over-spending" was really as bad as they make out, then we wouldn't be able to afford to do that.


The 50% tax was bringing in less money than the 40% rate. It cost Osbourne a lot of political capital to scrap it despite the fact it was costing us money.
Original post by Aj12
The 50% tax was bringing in less money than the 40% rate. It cost Osbourne a lot of political capital to scrap it despite the fact it was costing us money.


Yes, that was because people in the 50% tax were bringing their accounts forward so as to avoid paying it. If it had been kept, we would have seen it bringing in more money this coming financial year.
Original post by Mysteries
A lot of my fellow lefties would argue that Thatcher would be a more appropriate recipient of this title. However, I disagree. At least Thatcher stood for something. She had principles. Even Hitler and Stalin had principles. David Cameron has no principles. He is an empty vacuous suit with no ideas of his own or convictions of any kind. He is by far the most sycophantic, shapeshifting politician I've ever seen and that's saying a lot. He's been caught lying and changing his story on virtually every single topic he's discussed from economics, to healthcare, to social issues, to foreign policy, etc... Even his own party have criticized him for this.

David Cameron has dedicated his life to wealth and power; to make the rich richer by stealing from the poor. He is a complete corporate tool. Almost every single policy he's implemented has been for the benefit of the rich and the corporations and to the detriment of the poor and the middle class.

Verdict: Worst PM EVER!

Discuss.


True. I agree. On an ideological level, I abhor the society she tried to evolve. However, on a personal level, she stuck to her guns and argued her corner. In that sense I have respect for her.

I agree with the 'no principles' idea too. His main goal is to lead 'the party' and achieve power. He stands for no contemporary political philosophy or long term solution. Another Tory politician with no vision.

But I was with you until you said the 'rich richer'. Seriously? Give the man some credit. Despite what you have stated, I'm not so reactionary as to suggest that he has altered the entire state of Britain in order to benefit him and his friends.

He's a One-Nation Conservative. The benevolent rich who generously benefact the poor with their gains because they've had it rough, but they should really get on their bikes. I don't agree with that whatsoever, of course.

You're right to say that he is shape shifting and politically shortsighted. However, you swerve into reactionary rhetoric when you claim he is totally without substance.

Still, a good point fairly well made.
Reply 189
Dave is the worst PM in line with Thatcher.
Reply 190
Original post by dj1015
You have no idea. You deluded socialist.

Well that's just my opinion, if you're going to tell me that it's clearly wrong, then at least explain why?
no
I'd say Blair is the worst PM we've ever had though I suppose someone else will earn this title soon.
Reply 193
Original post by marcusfox
You clearly don't get the issues involved in 50% tax band, judging by the overly simplistic view you have presented.

Simply stating that they can't afford to scrap a 50% tax band as though you are arguing that a 50% tax band will bring in more revenue than a 45% tax band?

That's like me saying that a 100% tax band will bring in more revenue than a 50% tax band.

No, it's utter hogwash. If you're working so much that will push you into the 100% tax band, you're going to think, well, why would I bother? So 100% tax is going to bring in absolutely nothing at all

Which is exactly the same here. For the very few people - maybe 350,000 or so who are going to fall into that band, they will be thinking - why should I bother, and are going to cut back.

It’s the nature of these things that the overwhelming majority will be at or around the margin and only a very very small number will be the super rich.

So straight away you see that anyone around the margin can simply increase their pension contribution and avoid the tax.

The self-employed can simply pay themselves less leaving funds in their company in the hope of more enlightened years ahead.

Or, if they are of a certain age (as many successful self-employed people tend to be) with the house all paid for and money in the bank, they can just choose to take the foot of the gas.

Someone in the entertainment industry, for example, might find the high rate kicking in around January, when all the crap weather that they get to drive many thousands of miles through arrives, might decide stuff that extra tax, cut back on the bookings and have a break playing golf in Tenerife instead.

The important thing to realise is that all of the above examples not only lose the revenue the new 50p rate but the 40p rate (and the National Insurance) they had already been paying that’s why it doesn’t take too many modifying their behaviour for the revenue to lose out.

The truth is, the well off are always in a position to make choices that the low paid can only dream of, which is why all those public sector Guardianista leeches, for all their envious progressive talk, always end up in the end homing in on those with very little for their robber baron taxes.


That's actually a good point, I never thought of it like that - although I still don't agree with a lot of things that he does.
(edited 11 years ago)
Cameron is trying the impossible, hes at least done more than Blair-Brown brining austerity, which is a bold move but I agree hes failin, coalition agreement maybe?
Reply 195
Cameron the worst PM ever? Not when the Labour party exists.
Reply 196
Gordon Brown has more integrity and intelligence in his little finger than the whole of this government put together. Plus his policies for dealing with the economy were working, just a very bad press went overboard (as usual) in their criticism of him.
Reply 197
Sorry if you think this is off topic ...

I don't know too much about politics myself but I did notice a flaw in his first line for his Mandela speech. Cameron "A great light has gone out in the world." I think he should not have said the light has gone because Mandela's metaphysical light remains constantly guiding and inspiring people. In comparison Obama made an emotional reflective speech which I thought was depicted well.

RIP Mandela
(edited 10 years ago)
I personally think Brown was much worse in comparison and that Cameron's been quite good as PM.
Labour left us in debt and the Tories were left to clean it up afterwards. Of course Cameron's not going to be liked for that but in the long term, surely it's only beneficial towards us.
Reply 199
Thatcher. Privatization was a disaster.

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