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Why do we blame morbidly obese people but not depressed people for their condition?
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Original post by falseprofit
To my knowledge morbid obesity and depression are similar it these ways:
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
Morbid obesity can be the result of psychological condition. It can also be the result of unfavourable genetic makeup or an endocrine disorder. In most cases it is the result of gluttony and a lack of willpower. Now here's the big distinction: morbid obesity may (in certain cases) be a symptom of an underlying psychological disorder. Depression is a psychological disorder.
I'm not so sure that depressed people are always treated with tact and sympathy either.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TurboCretin
I'm not so sure that depressed people are always treated with tact and sympathy either.
I'm not so sure that depressed people are always treated with tact and sympathy either.
This is sometimes true, unfortunately.
Not all people who are overweight eat too much. Some medication causes weight gain. Some people who are overweight have disabilities which affect their mobility and their ability to exercise.
Original post by OU Student
This is sometimes true, unfortunately.
Not all people who are overweight eat too much. Some medication causes weight gain. Some people who are overweight have disabilities which affect their mobility and their ability to exercise.
Not all people who are overweight eat too much. Some medication causes weight gain. Some people who are overweight have disabilities which affect their mobility and their ability to exercise.
thats true some medications cause you to gain a bit of weight. this isn't some physics phenomenon where energy is appearing from nowhere and storing its self as fat is it? yes some medications increase appetite but that isn't what we're really talking about in this thread though is it?
there are various drugs that can occasionally make patients feel sad such as sleep medications, beta blockers and statins. that isnt what this topic is on now is it?
obesity in almost all cases is caused by over-indulgence and most cases of clinical depression are a serious mental health problem. we're not talking about feeling a bit down because you didn't get into university or got rejected by your crush and are feeling upset. we're talking about people who derive no pleasure from life due to a mental health problem and lead very sad lives because of this.
this shouldn't even be a debate.
Original post by falseprofit
Experience obesity, then make that kind of comment.
It's not somebody's fault if they become obese.
You would argue that an obese person may become obese because they don't exercise and eat too much. I would argue that a depressed person may become depressed because they are unmotivated and unproductive with their life. Psychologists would agree that both conditions are disorders. Why does one disorder possess more justification than the other?
It's not somebody's fault if they become obese.
You would argue that an obese person may become obese because they don't exercise and eat too much. I would argue that a depressed person may become depressed because they are unmotivated and unproductive with their life. Psychologists would agree that both conditions are disorders. Why does one disorder possess more justification than the other?
Don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about obesity. I was simply arguing that your viewpoint on depression was wrong.
It is not black and white. There are many causes of depression. At any rate, it is not merely something that one can 'get over' with ease if they work real hard. It is not that simple. Willpower has something to do with it - but that isn't the only factor. People who are productive members of society can get depression the same as a homeless person can. Depression does not 'target' those who are unmotivated/unproductive in life. It can be circumstatial or genetic or many other things.
Original post by delllboy
no no doctor, depression isn't caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain such as serotonin. its because you aren't working for your happiness.
]
no no doctor, depression isn't caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain such as serotonin. its because you aren't working for your happiness.
]
You're right, depression isn't caused by an "imbalance" in the brain. You actually believe "three in four people" are "chemically imbalanced" at some point in their lives? Chemical imbalance doesn't exist. It's a term used by people who like to justify their and other people's depression, one handed to them by the BBC, the NHS website and their GP. Occasionally they will throw in the word serotonin even though they haven't taken a biology class since GCSE double science award.
Original post by delllboy
because one has a very easy solution to their problem. all it requires is willpower.
the other is a serious and debilitating psychiatric problem which often requires medical help.
the other is a serious and debilitating psychiatric problem which often requires medical help.
In psychology you learn that stress (which leads to depression) can be dealt with by taking control
Many peole who're fat can also take control by ensuring they only eat healthily and exercise.
but they can both be caused by psychological issues and both be treated by doctors using various treatments if the person is past the taking control stage.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by falseprofit
Experience obesity, then make that kind of comment.
It's not somebody's fault if they become obese.
It's not somebody's fault if they become obese.
I'm overweight (and trying to lose weight) It's almost entirely my own fault. Partially my parents fault, but vastly my own fault. My own choices for the majority have made me overweight. Though I'm trying to lose the weight. So whilst I haven't experienced obesity, I am experiencing being overweight
Reading some of these points, I feel sad that still no one has invented a device that allows you to slap people in the face over the internet.
To the morons who are actually saying obesity and depression are comparable...
I sincerely hope you never have to cope with living with depression, that's all I can say.
To the morons who are actually saying obesity and depression are comparable...
I sincerely hope you never have to cope with living with depression, that's all I can say.Original post by falseprofit
To my knowledge morbid obesity and depression are similar it these ways:
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
I don't think you know either condition that well. Obesity and depression are certainly linked, but at the end of it you want to prevent both. Fine blame them if you really want but that makes them feel much worse and doesn't help anyone. What's the point of blaming them really? Does it make the person blaming them feel better? Does it mean suddenly the obese or depressed person will change because now they're at fault? Neither...
Depression and obesity aren't so easy as you don't bother so you're upset and you eat too much so you're obese. There's a billion other psychological factors, some genetics, and a hell lot of social transmission. Most people don't want to be either and both feed into each other. Depression means you can eat more and eating more can further your depression. Basically if you really give a damn that someone's obese or depressed try to help them. If not don't be a dick and blame them making them feel worse about themselves because that's just appalling and only going to worsen the issue. Encourage them to lose weight or in both cases reassure them and give them help achieving their aims.
Original post by IlexBlue
Reading some of these points, I feel sad that still no one has invented a device that allows you to slap people in the face over the internet.
To the morons who are actually saying obesity and depression are comparable... I sincerely hope you never have to cope with living with depression, that's all I can say.
To the morons who are actually saying obesity and depression are comparable...
I sincerely hope you never have to cope with living with depression, that's all I can say.Often the two are linked in that depressed people can be obese and further depressed because they're obese. But to say they're similar in character is outrageous. However in treatment, there is some overlap but there's enough that's vastly different. For example in depression it's much more about psychology, in obesity there's some emphasis on that but more on identifying why one is obese. People don't realise what in their diet makes them fat. In fact the vast majority of overweight patients at least have no clue why their apparently healthy diet is making them fat. People have no idea that stuff like humous contains pretty much as much fat as cheese...
Original post by Notethis
You're right, depression isn't caused by an "imbalance" in the brain. You actually believe "three in four people" are "chemically imbalanced" at some point in their lives? Chemical imbalance doesn't exist. It's a term used by people who like to justify their and other people's depression, one handed to them by the BBC, the NHS website and their GP. Occasionally they will throw in the word serotonin even though they haven't taken a biology class since GCSE double science award.
really? 3 in 4 people have major depression? you're confusing clinical depression with an occasional bout of low mood. come back when you know the difference.
justify their depression? well since you're not only an expert biologist but also a trained psychiatrist maybe you should start lecturing our countries GPs on how wrong they are about clinical depression.
i wont respond to your uneducated, naive and insensitive posts anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_of_depression
Original post by Clare~Bear
In psychology you learn that stress (which leads to depression) can be dealt with by taking control
Many peole who're fat can also take control by ensuring they only eat healthily and exercise.
but they can both be caused by psychological issues and both be treated by doctors using various treatments if the person is past the taking control stage.
In psychology you learn that stress (which leads to depression) can be dealt with by taking control
Many peole who're fat can also take control by ensuring they only eat healthily and exercise.
but they can both be caused by psychological issues and both be treated by doctors using various treatments if the person is past the taking control stage.
psychology major up here in this thread. that pretty much sums up your post.
as it has already stated several times, clinical depression is not just having a low mood because you got poor exam results or didn't get invited to a party. it is a medical condition thought to be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.
i wont respond to anymore retarded posts, i have already made my point. i dont need some moron with psychology degree to come here and point out stupid points. clinical depression is a mental health problem and is not simply caused by not managing stress in their lives or working hard at life.
Original post by de_monies
I'm overweight (and trying to lose weight) It's almost entirely my own fault. Partially my parents fault, but vastly my own fault. My own choices for the majority have made me overweight. Though I'm trying to lose the weight. So whilst I haven't experienced obesity, I am experiencing being overweight
That's exactly it. Overweight/obesity is combination of many factors. But your own fault is there not because you are fat but because you didn't try hard enough to lose it. This comes from someone who's lost 30kg through mainly exercise over a year and a bit. Worked damn hard to become normal weight.
Some people get fat because of a mental illness, like depression. Then you could say that a depressed fat may be fat due to the depression, and it'd be a lot harder to blame them.
Fatness isn't in itself a mental illness. We have a greater desire to eat than is necessary, and a lesser desire to exercise than is necessary. This is due to our evolutionary background of having to conserve energy and hunt for food. We don't have to deal with scarcity any more. This system is not a mental illness, it's just how humans are made. If you want to not be fat, you put the pie down and go for a run. Simple equation.
However, many people decide that the benefits of more nice food outweigh the negatives and they choose to become fat. That's a totally reasonable decision to make.
So you can see that obesity cannot be in itself on the same level as depression (mental illness), as there is no rational decision that can be made to become depressed, and you also can't choose to be depressed or not, you just are.
As I've already said, there are people who get fat due to a mental illness, and this mental illness should be taken into account before judging the reasons for a person's weight. It can occasionally be a symptom of mental illness, but it's not a mental illness in itself.
But most fat people just eat too much because they want to. You can't escape from this reality.
I also have to wonder at the depression is 1 in 4 thing. I suggest that maybe the diagnosis is too wide in this statistic. Everyone gets unhappy from time to time and feel like they can't cope. Everyone reacts badly to grief and trauma temporarily. Not everyone plans their suicide method and note and readies themselves for the occasion.
Fatness isn't in itself a mental illness. We have a greater desire to eat than is necessary, and a lesser desire to exercise than is necessary. This is due to our evolutionary background of having to conserve energy and hunt for food. We don't have to deal with scarcity any more. This system is not a mental illness, it's just how humans are made. If you want to not be fat, you put the pie down and go for a run. Simple equation.
However, many people decide that the benefits of more nice food outweigh the negatives and they choose to become fat. That's a totally reasonable decision to make.
So you can see that obesity cannot be in itself on the same level as depression (mental illness), as there is no rational decision that can be made to become depressed, and you also can't choose to be depressed or not, you just are.
As I've already said, there are people who get fat due to a mental illness, and this mental illness should be taken into account before judging the reasons for a person's weight. It can occasionally be a symptom of mental illness, but it's not a mental illness in itself.
But most fat people just eat too much because they want to. You can't escape from this reality.
I also have to wonder at the depression is 1 in 4 thing. I suggest that maybe the diagnosis is too wide in this statistic. Everyone gets unhappy from time to time and feel like they can't cope. Everyone reacts badly to grief and trauma temporarily. Not everyone plans their suicide method and note and readies themselves for the occasion.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Notethis
You're right, depression isn't caused by an "imbalance" in the brain. You actually believe "three in four people" are "chemically imbalanced" at some point in their lives? Chemical imbalance doesn't exist. It's a term used by people who like to justify their and other people's depression, one handed to them by the BBC, the NHS website and their GP. Occasionally they will throw in the word serotonin even though they haven't taken a biology class since GCSE double science award.
The extent at which this is utter rubbish is so damn incomprehensible. First of all get depressed and then come back and say what it feels like. Chemical imbalances pretty much affect EVERYONE. Clinical depression affects around about 10% of people. The point is most people will experience a low mood in their lifetime but that's not depression. To actually be diagnosed of depression it's got to be two weeks of several different symptoms - and low mood doesn't even need to be one of them! Science shows that specific hormones are lowered, noradrenaline and serotonin, in depressed individuals and the treatments work. And don't give a load of rubbish about it's the placebo effect because they're tested against placebo. Seriously don't act so smart when the amount you know about the subject is less than my fingernail.
Original post by ckingalt
I'm not a shrink, but they seem to have more than just random similarities to me.
"I'm depressed, so I am not motivated to do anything, so I become more depressed."
"I'm obese so I feel bad, which makes me want to eat and over-indulge, so I become more obese."
From a layman's point a view they seem to be in the same category of psychological disorder. The OP may be reaching but it is not without merit.
"I'm depressed, so I am not motivated to do anything, so I become more depressed."
"I'm obese so I feel bad, which makes me want to eat and over-indulge, so I become more obese."
From a layman's point a view they seem to be in the same category of psychological disorder. The OP may be reaching but it is not without merit.
Or "I dislike Jews, which makes me want to get rid of Jews, so I say this and people like it, so I dislike them more"
Or, or another one, right "I am scared of llamas, which makes me want to stay away from llamas, and therefore continuing to work in the llama pen at the zoo makes me more scared of llamas".
Lay-people's points of view regarding stuff like this are very bad starting points.
Original post by Notethis
You're right, depression isn't caused by an "imbalance" in the brain. You actually believe "three in four people" are "chemically imbalanced" at some point in their lives? Chemical imbalance doesn't exist. It's a term used by people who like to justify their and other people's depression, one handed to them by the BBC, the NHS website and their GP. Occasionally they will throw in the word serotonin even though they haven't taken a biology class since GCSE double science award.
Damn, I better tell my tutor with a PhD in neuropsychology that her life's work is all lies because some guy on a forum thinks so.
There is a difference between 'feeling blue' which can be corrected by positive thinking, relaxation etc. and clinical depression, which often requires drugs and professional therapy.
But whatever, you clearly know everything about this.
Original post by falseprofit
To my knowledge morbid obesity and depression are similar it these ways:
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
1. Both are considered to be the result of psychological issues/conditions
2. Both are debilitating to someone's health, relationships, and career.
3. Both may be caused by or exacerbated by personal behavior.
4. Those who suffer from both these conditions are likely to be a burden on family/friend/loved ones and society.
So why is it when someone disparages the morbidly obese for their behavior there is minimal outrage in response and often even a general consensus of agreement? (I have seen this occur often on TSR. TSR loves to abuse the fatties like the extra soft and squishy punching bags they are.)
Why is it when someone disparages the depressed they receive a torrent of outrange and often outright disgust for their audacity? (This always happens on TSR. Try even suggesting that depressed people may be slightly responsible for their own condition and the "pro-depression brigade" will come out in force prepared to fight for the honor and rights of these poor souls as if they are the last remnants of an endangered species.)
I have two theories as to why there is such an opposite in sentiment for two conditions with so much in common.
1. The accepted treatment for the obese is to educate and motivate them to change their habits and lifestyle. The accepted treatment for the depressed is medicate them and excuse their behavior/condition in order break the cycle of depression.
2. Because depression is so wide spread (1 in 4 people they say) many people here have been, are, or care about someone who is depressed. Depression hits to close to home, so when taken into consideration with point #1, too many people consider the depressed to be exempt from criticism. No one, should be exempt from criticism.
I think the disparity in peoples regard for obesity and depression is hypocritical, dishonest, and often self-serving. So should we be more understanding of one group or more critical of the other? I reckon we should probably be a little bit of both.
I'm not sure if anyone else has addressed this, but your point 2) is completely bunk.
The statistic for overall mental illness over a lifetime is a 1 in 4 chance, according to a number of sources. For depression estimates range from to 1 in 5 to 1 in 10, depending on which studies you consult and choose to trust.
Conversely, the current statistics on obesity place 1 in 4 adults in Britain in the obese category, so there are more obese people than depressed people.
Also the word "obese" and the photographs that are used alongside them in the media are grossly misleading, and people often assume that "obese" means 25 stone or more. It doesn't.
Personally, I think that's also contributing a bit towards it and and the growing number of overweight people in this country. They read scare stories about the illnesses associated with obesity, then see a picture of somebody twice as large as themselves and think "oh, I'm ok to keep on as I am at the moment then", which is very wrong.
Furthermore, you are ignorant of the various courses of treatment for depression. Patients are encouraged to do things like make sure they eat healthily and take regular exercise, because these things have been shown to lift mood.
It isn't simply a matter of shoving drugs down people's throats and giving them a backrub.
Recovery from depression can be extremely difficult, and in some cases the recovery continues long after the episode itself has lifted - coming close to ending your own life is a very distressing experience.
Whilst I recognise that it may also be difficult to "recover", for want of a better word, from obesity, it is a different road. The complicating factor in all of this is that many obese people suffer depressive symptoms and are on anti-depressants themselves, which somewhat blurs the lines.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by delllboy
psychology major up here in this thread. that pretty much sums up your post.
as it has already stated several times, clinical depression is not just having a low mood because you got poor exam results or didn't get invited to a party. it is a medical condition thought to be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.
i wont respond to anymore retarded posts, i have already made my point. i dont need some moron with psychology degree to come here and point out stupid points. clinical depression is a mental health problem and is not simply caused by not managing stress in their lives or working hard at life.
as it has already stated several times, clinical depression is not just having a low mood because you got poor exam results or didn't get invited to a party. it is a medical condition thought to be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.
i wont respond to anymore retarded posts, i have already made my point. i dont need some moron with psychology degree to come here and point out stupid points. clinical depression is a mental health problem and is not simply caused by not managing stress in their lives or working hard at life.
I know it's not always about control. I was commenting on your post saying how one is about self control, but they can both be about control if you actually knew anything about it. I don't have a degree in psychology, this is basic stuff from AS psychology.
(edited 11 years ago)
This whole thread just seems to be based on a fundamental ignorance of the medical facts concerning both obesity and depression.
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