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Do you believe in a superior race?

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Reply 160
I don't think so. I've heard the argument which says that whites 'evolved' from blacks - which is true to an extent, but they only evolved to adapt a different environment where there was not that much sun and was colder, it doesn't mean that they are superior.
Reply 161
There are a lot of closet Nazis in here. There is no superior race but we must ensure the White race does not try to oppress other races ever again. We must strive for a mixed race future in Europe. It is the only solution to racism.

Smash the fash!
Original post by karateworm
I'm saying that anyone with a basic grasp on evolution knows that the humans species has existed for a fragment of a second on the evolutionary scale. Biological differences are aesthetic, there is no such thing as race... only different combinations of physical characteristics.

Your half-baked ramblings belong in a stupider time.


This.

Pseudo-intellectualism on the internet is rampant. People try to seem smart to impress their fellow aspies with "knowledge" of the "scientific world" without bothering to study it. Just a general grasp of a subject gives them enough confidence to make swift and far fetched generalisations that fit their own pre-conceived ideas, much like the religious twisting of science ("humans lived alongside dinosaurs") but with less idiocy.

People in the Alpes have bigger lungs than people who live at sea level. Not genetic. Their lungs grow larger in size during infancy as a result of adaptation. If they lived on sea level, their lungs would be normal size.

My lecturer is even conducting studies in Guatemala about the physical effects of adversity through generations, after they have moved to the USA. She found that, while Guatemalan people are short in size while living under adverse conditions, their height slowly increases over generations after moving to America. Several generations is a very short time for evolution to happen, so it can't be genetic. She concluded that the effects of adversity are passed on through physical means via the womb.

Intelligence is such a varied field, and we know so little about it, that making generalisations about it is simply stupid to an astonishing extent. First there's the need to define it. After you define it, there's a need to study the effects of culture and of genes on it.

Identical twins (of the same race of course) living together score very similar in an IQ test. If they were separated at birth and living with two different families, the difference is markedly different. Of course when the twins are non identical, they score even further apart on IQ tests and when they're just siblings born at different times the difference is even greater.

Of course this shows that intelligence (as far as you're prepared to believe in the accuracy of IQ tests) is both genetic and environmental. But just looking at the difference between the IQ scores of two siblings who have been separated at birth, which is quite high, you have to think how much more different could it be between races? The answer is, much more. But that's because IQ scores of all normal people range between 80-120 (vast differences).

You'll also find that IQ scores can be improved with practice. (I urge you to have a read around on the internet about feral children. I won't give you any clues, but try to use it to make your own conclusions about the importance of culture in the development of intelligece).

(I just remembered that I quoted someone that I agree with. Sorry about these ramblings)
(edited 11 years ago)
Why are Black people faster (generally)? I am not a White Supremacist lol, just wondering..

Update
I apologize for my racism and have changed my views now, sorry if I offended any of the black community.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 164
Original post by TheHansa
Maybe they do, but the origin of this difference could easily be environmental. Europeans used to be extremely strong and hardy, in contrast to how we are now and it has been shown that testosterone rates for men in all age groups have been falling in the developed world and black people who may be more marginalised, poor and lead lives which expose them to more violence might be "sheltered" from the cause of this. Isolating the chemical trigger of their success in sports hasn't proved the chemical difference is an innate one, even things as symple as diet and exercise can alter a persons hormone level very much.


"This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA."

Surely this implies that the people studied weren't from extremely different backgrounds with such different lives. How different would their diet and exercise be, considering that they live in the same area with the same education?

I agree that the environment changes hormone levels, but so does race.
Original post by whyumadtho
What population has no admixture? A history of colonialism, war and migration would have created admixture everywhere; your precious anthropologists have stated this clearly. Odokuma et al. (2010) found craniometric variance amongst Nigerian ethnic groups. Do you have evidence to suggest biological heterogeneity amongst West Africans? :rofl: Why are differences between the women depicted in that photo extant? I have no trouble distinguishing between various Europeans, Africans and East Asians because everyone looks different. It's well known and accepted that variation within populations is greater than what is between populations, which is something your precious anthropologists have also agreed upon.


West Africans have no Eurasian geneflow, East Africans are of 60% Western Asian derivation. Its why they cluster with Caucasoids in craniometrics.

‘‘A high proportion of Ethiopian lineages, significantly more abundant in the northeast of that country, trace their western Eurasian origin in haplogroup N through assorted gene flow at different times and involving different source populations.’’(Toomas Kivisild et al.) Human Biology 75.2 (2003) 293-300

‘‘Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin.’’ (Scacchi et al. 2003)

‘‘A similarly high proportion of western Asian Y chromosomes in Ethiopians (Passarino et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2002), which supports the view (Richards et al. 2003) that the observed admixture between sub-Saharan African and, most probably, western Asian ancestors of the Ethiopian populations applies to their gene pool in general.’’ (Am. J. Hum. Genet., 75:000, 2004)

‘‘East African groups, such as Ethiopians and Somalis, have great genetic resemblance to Caucasians and are clearly intermediate between sub-Saharan Africans and Caucasians’’
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139378/
Yes, those who can get along best with others.
"we must learn to live together as brothers, or we will perish as fools"
Original post by whyumadtho
"Studies of human population genetics and evolution have generated the strongest proof that there is no scientific basis for racism, with the demonstration that human genetic diversity between populations is small, and perhaps entirely the result of climatic adaptation and random drift." (Cavalli-Sforza, 2005).


Cavalli-Sforza generally supports the 5 racial divisions as outlined in his History and Geography of Human Genes (1994) and uses such terminology. Suddenly though ten years later he's saying race doesn't exist. He's contradicted himself.

Here is another article he wrote supporting racial reality -

L.L. Cavalli-Sforza on Human Races
http://www.goodrumj.com/CavalliS.html
Original post by greenblueandorange
You should meet my family. In addition to my Mom's sister and one of their brothers, all of my ancestors on my Mom's side (including my Mom, of course) were born with amber or blue or blue and green eyes (i.e. depending on the intensity of the light that the eyes are exposed to, the eyes can be as blue as the sky or as green as the grass--not to be confused with a type of Mediterranean eyes). They're all relatively fair skinned, but the blue eyed and blue and green eyed people were born with "white" skin. Oh and I used to be a bit lighter, but now I'm brown, and I've had freckles since I was 3 or 4 or 5 years old and now I'm 20; my hair also gets red tones under the sun; also, I have high cheekbones (actually, quite a few people in my family do) and big eyes. On the other hand, our distant relatives have darker features. In fact, there are a few, who are really really dark, like almost black. However, we all have straight hair. Oh I'm South Asian, btw.

Although there are occasional comments about skin color and nose shape, no one from my Mom's immediate family puts an emphasis on features because in the end, no matter where we are now, we were born in South Asia and that makes us South Asians. How much protein (i.e. melanin) and how narrow our nostrils are doesn't matter to us. We know that our DNA determines this. People have always migrated from one place to another since the origin of anatomically modern humans in East Africa. So no one, including you, is either Caucasian, Negroid, or Mangloid. Why? BECAUSE RACE DOES NOT EXIST.


South Indians are Indid-Veddoid (a Caucasoid Veddid mix). Those on the periphery (including North India) are more homogenous and are Caucasoid.

Note that dark and broad traits in India are looked down upon. The beauty ideal is the light skinned Caucasoid female in Bollywood. Dark skinned, broader nosed Indian females are rejected in Bollywood. So i don't know why as an Indian you are denying the reality of race. Race plays a important role in the sociology and entire caste structure of India.
Original post by Pyramidologist
West Africans have no Eurasian geneflow, East Africans are of 60% Western Asian derivation. Its why they cluster with Caucasoids in craniometrics.

‘‘A high proportion of Ethiopian lineages, significantly more abundant in the northeast of that country, trace their western Eurasian origin in haplogroup N through assorted gene flow at different times and involving different source populations.’’(Toomas Kivisild et al.) Human Biology 75.2 (2003) 293-300

‘‘Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin.’’ (Scacchi et al. 2003)

‘‘A similarly high proportion of western Asian Y chromosomes in Ethiopians (Passarino et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2002), which supports the view (Richards et al. 2003) that the observed admixture between sub-Saharan African and, most probably, western Asian ancestors of the Ethiopian populations applies to their gene pool in general.’’ (Am. J. Hum. Genet., 75:000, 2004)

‘‘East African groups, such as Ethiopians and Somalis, have great genetic resemblance to Caucasians and are clearly intermediate between sub-Saharan Africans and Caucasians’’
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139378/
Yeah, nothing there tells me West Africans are biologically homogeneous; as I never suggested East Africans never had Eurasian admixture, you seem to be attacking a point I never made. My point is that everyone has a degree of admixture—gene flow is everywhere.

"Our results show that when individuals are sampled homogeneously from around the globe, the pattern seen is one of gradients of allele frequencies that extend over the entire world, rather than discrete clusters. Therefore, there is no reason to assume that major genetic discontinuities exist between different continents or “races.”" (Serre & Pääbo, 2004).

"Because of a history of extensive migration and gene flow, however, human genetic variation tends to be distributed in a continuous fashion and seldom has marked geographic discontinuities. Thus, populations are never “pure” in a genetic sense, and definite boundaries between individuals or populations (e.g. “races”) will be necessarily somewhat inaccurate and arbitrary." (Jorde & Wooding, 2004).

"To avoid making "race" the equivalent of a local population, minimal thresholds of differentiation are imposed. Human "races" are below the thresholds used in other species, so valid traditional subspecies do not exist in humans. A "subspecies" can also be defined as a distinct evolutionary lineage within a species. Genetic surveys and the analyses of DN A haplotype trees show that human "races" are not distinct lineages, and that this is not due to recent admixture; human "races" are not and never were "pure." Instead, human evolution has been and is characterized by many locally differentiated populations coexisting at any given time, but with sufficient genetic contact to make all of humanity a single lineage sharing a common evolutionary fate." (Templeton, 1998).

Original post by Pyramidologist
Cavalli-Sforza generally supports the 5 racial divisions as outlined in his History and Geography of Human Genes (1994) and uses such terminology. Suddenly though ten years later he's saying race doesn't exist. He's contradicted himself.

Here is another article he wrote supporting racial reality -

L.L. Cavalli-Sforza on Human Races
http://www.goodrumj.com/CavalliS.html
:rofl2: What is your point? You realise science and technology are collectively one of the fastest growing academic fields, don't you? Comments made in 1976 and 1994 have later been superseded via developments in biology, genetics and anthropology that have found greater evidence that 'race' is indeed a social construct. You seem to be stuck in 1962. :rolleyes:

No academic with any credibility sticks to a comprehensively debunked concept.
Original post by Pyramidologist
West Africans have no Eurasian geneflow, East Africans are of 60% Western Asian derivation. Its why they cluster with Caucasoids in craniometrics.


‘‘East African groups, such as Ethiopians and Somalis, have great genetic resemblance to Caucasians and are clearly intermediate between sub-Saharan Africans and Caucasians’’
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139378/


You are wrong about West African's having no gene flow from caucasians. Arabs for like the last 1000 years have been trading goods, and slaves with the people and have been interbreeding. Whites arrived on the scene 250 years ago and have left a footprint.

My mother and my uncle are west Africans, yet 2 of my maternal cousins who are mixed race have blue eyes, pale skin and fine noses. My mum says that she is roughly 1/3 white as her mother was apparently mixed race and her Dad was 1/4. Having been to Nigeria, I have also seen p;lenty of people on the coast with green eyes. Further up north there is more arab admixture. West Africans , to a degree, are mixed.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 171
No.
Original post by whyumadtho
Yeah, nothing there tells me West Africans are biologically homogeneous; as I never suggested East Africans never had Eurasian admixture, you seem to be attacking a point I never made. My point is that everyone has a degree of admixture—gene flow is everywhere.

Gene flow isn't everywhere. For example Negroid Y-DNA and mtDNA is wholly absent in ethnic-Europeans. Just take a look at the haplogroup maps. Some places are entirely homogenous and have no admixture. Africa however is heterogeneous, as it has been settled by different races for tens of thousands of years. Unadmixed Negroids are just restricted to western, and to a lesser extent central Sub-Sahara Africa. If you go to these places, there is no physical diversity. The Negroid or true ''Black'' is wooly haired, prognathic and wide nosed. As you though move into eastern and northern Africa, the populations have greater phenotypic diversity - because they are Caucasoid (Hamitic) admixed, hence they are orthognathic, thinner nosed and straighter haired. Note also the language composition of Africa. Afro-Asiatic originated in the middle-east and was imported into north and east africa by Hamitic Caucasoids. Negroid language in contrast is Niger-Congo. All civilizations, agriculture, technology etc was introduced into Africa by Eurasian Caucasoids.
Original post by Blutooth
You are wrong about West African's having no gene flow from caucasians. Arabs for like the last 1000 years have been trading goods, and slaves with the people and have been interbreeding. Whites arrived on the scene 250 years ago and have left a footprint.

My mother and my uncle are west Africans, yet 2 of my maternal cousins who are mixed race have blue eyes, pale skin and fine noses. My mum says that she is roughly 1/3 white as her mother was apparently mixed race and her Dad was 1/4. Having been to Nigeria, I have also seen p;lenty of people on the coast with green eyes. Further up north there is more arab admixture. West Africans , to a degree, are mixed.


This isn't geneflow, its just modern admixture on a very minute scale. Geneflow involves migration of a population of considerable size. Historically East Africa has recieved large amounts of geneflow because Caucasoids have settled there since the Mesolithic. Western Africa however was never en masse colonised in prehistoric or ancient times, its why its inhabitants remain Negroid in phenotype.

You know north and east Africans despise West Africans for their broad, primitive facial features and nappy hair. Those Negroid traits are despised and looked down upon. Its why black women go to extremes to artifically straighten their natural afro or wooly hair. Hair straighteners in the Negroid community is like a billion dollar industry.
Original post by Pyramidologist
This isn't geneflow, its just modern admixture on a very minute scale. Geneflow involves migration of a population of considerable size. Historically East Africa has recieved large amounts of geneflow because Caucasoids have settled there since the Mesolithic. Western Africa however was never en masse colonised in prehistoric or ancient times, its why its inhabitants remain Negroid in phenotype.

You know north and east Africans despise West Africans for their broad, primitive facial features and nappy hair. Those Negroid traits are despised and looked down upon. Its why black women go to extremes to artifically straighten their natural afro or wooly hair. Hair straighteners in the Negroid community is like a billion dollar industry.


Why should should that be surprising? Ever heard the phrase each to their own. To some personality is more important. And I've seen plenty of attractive black girls who have their hair in plaits or go au natural, and women love to alter their appearance anyway.

I think you have spent too long researching into different races and subraces and substrates of this or that. It's not healthy. Instead, you should go out and see what that has to offer rather than living entombed in all this pseudo-scientific doctrine. Meet a black woman; talk to her if you can. Then decide if there are any huge racial differences.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Pyramidologist
Gene flow isn't everywhere. For example Negroid Y-DNA and mtDNA is wholly absent in ethnic-Europeans. Just take a look at the haplogroup maps. Some places are entirely homogenous and have no admixture. Africa however is heterogeneous, as it has been settled by different races for tens of thousands of years. Unadmixed Negroids are just restricted to western, and to a lesser extent central Sub-Sahara Africa. If you go to these places, there is no physical diversity. The Negroid or true ''Black'' is wooly haired, prognathic and wide nosed. As you though move into eastern and northern Africa, the populations have greater phenotypic diversity - because they are Caucasoid (Hamitic) admixed, hence they are orthognathic, thinner nosed and straighter haired. Note also the language composition of Africa. Afro-Asiatic originated in the middle-east and was imported into north and east africa by Hamitic Caucasoids. Negroid language in contrast is Niger-Congo. All civilizations, agriculture, technology etc was introduced into Africa by Eurasian Caucasoids.


And many other traits are shared and overlap. Blood group alleles are also absent from various regions of the world and do not correspond to the 'negroid', 'caucasoid', etc. categories you have identified; there is not a coterminous lack of admixture and populations are not significantly genetically divergent. What makes your measures more important than blood group other than your opinion? I'm not suggesting everything is mixed, but that every population has substantial commonality and overlap with other populations to the extent that they cannot be objectively differentiated.
Original post by Dont Tread On Me
So are you saying that evolution has had no effect what so ever on the brain?


Do you understand how evolution is posited to work?
Original post by Pyramidologist
This isn't geneflow, its just modern admixture on a very minute scale. Geneflow involves migration of a population of considerable size. Historically East Africa has recieved large amounts of geneflow because Caucasoids have settled there since the Mesolithic. Western Africa however was never en masse colonised in prehistoric or ancient times, its why its inhabitants remain Negroid in phenotype.

You know north and east Africans despise West Africans for their broad, primitive facial features and nappy hair. Those Negroid traits are despised and looked down upon. Its why black women go to extremes to artifically straighten their natural afro or wooly hair. Hair straighteners in the Negroid community is like a billion dollar industry.
Alternatively, it is very difficult to manage, gets frizzy and matted easily, and is difficult and painful to comb. :rolleyes:

What about the tanning industry? :holmes:
Reply 178
It's possible, but you're getting into rather rocky, James Watson-esque territory :P
Original post by whyumadtho
Alternatively, it is very difficult to manage, gets frizzy and matted easily, and is difficult and painful to comb. :rolleyes:


I've just realised, classifying people into races is a bit like combing hair into two different sections. No mqtter how hard you try there will always be hairs on the borders, and different strands get entangled and matted in with strands from other other sections. And tomorrow you might just choose a different, arbitrary set of sections to part your hair into :tongue:

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