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OCR GCSE Latin summer 2012

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Reply 140
Original post by metaltron
No you have completely misunderstood the point of my corrections.

1) What is 'nolite' the imperative of?
2) It is not innocent slaves, THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN THE CONTEXT. It is also punishments not punishment.
3) It is not passive.


I put innocent people? because you can put in a subject so it reads better.
Original post by Darich
I put innocent people? because you can put in a subject so it reads better.


Yeah innocent people is great, I only object to the 'slaves' part. Don't worry I'm not getting annoyed at everybody today!
Reply 142
Original post by sahajkaur
Hi I have attached a file with all the grammar you need to know (just know it roughly) and learn all the vocab! For set texts there is an essay in which you have to analyse how the writer creates certain effects. Do you want me to upload an example of that too?


It would be really helpful if you could upload that example essay too :smile:
Original post by metaltron
No you have completely misunderstood the point of my corrections.

1) What is 'nolite' the imperative of?
2) It is not innocent slaves, THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE IN THE CONTEXT. It is also punishments not punishment.
3) It is not passive.


NOLITE IS THE IMPERATIVE OF 'TO NOT WANT' which translates to a command about not doing something.
2) WELL YES IT WAS THE INNOCENT SLAVES. Did you even read the context about them being punished?
3) No I know, it was just an example
Original post by metaltron
Are you going to correct your mistakes. I put 'lest' due to the "ne" clause. I always think "in case" is a better translation but is never in the mark scheme.


I'm not going to correct them with something that is wrong e.g. your opinion of putting 'You do not want' and 'NE' = FEAR clause, so you don't have to put lest it in for the translation to be marked correct
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by metaltron
Are you going to correct your mistakes. I put 'lest' due to the "ne" clause. I always think "in case" is a better translation but is never in the mark scheme.


Nolite is a completely different association to nolo. Frankly the question would not make sense if you used that. The imperative of te makes it do not, as in an order, along with the re on the verb. The ablative absolute is fine both ways, and there was a subjunctive making it lest the ... Etc. but the examiners will have last say so don't fight :P


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Original post by Darich
I put innocent people? because you can put in a subject so it reads better.


Our teachers just looked at the paper, they said both fit in the context :smile:
Original post by Graceyfave
Nolite is a completely different association to nolo. Frankly the question would not make sense if you used that. The imperative of te makes it do not, as in an order, along with the re on the verb. The ablative absolute is fine both ways, and there was a subjunctive making it lest the ... Etc. but the examiners will have last say so don't fight :P


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We were never taught to include lest but both are correct. I'm not fighting. Some people justthink that they're the only ones that are correct and do not realize that there ARE alternative answers as well as being unappreciative.
Original post by sahajkaur
We were never taught to include lest but both are correct. I'm not fighting. Some people justthink that they're the only ones that are correct and do not realize that there ARE alternative answers as well as being unappreciative.


Yes I completely agree, people on ere are so aggressive sometimes hahhaa :smile: thank you very much btw, I was trying to back you up by argue


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Original post by Graceyfave
Yes I completely agree, people on ere are so aggressive sometimes hahhaa :smile: thank you very much btw, I was trying to back you up by argue


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*not argue sorry!


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Original post by sahajkaur
Our teachers just looked at the paper, they said both fit in the context :smile:


OK, so change the ablative absolute to active.
Nolite= http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nolite , so you do need reference to "do not want/desire"
Change it to "penalties" not "penalty" and several were afraid, suggests that it was general public worrying, possibly the crowd, so it should not be confined to slaves.
Original post by metaltron
OK, so change the ablative absolute to active.
Nolite= http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nolite , so you do need reference to "do not want/desire"
Change it to "penalties" not "penalty" and several were afraid, suggests that it was general public worrying, possibly the crowd, so it should not be confined to slaves.


Google nolo in the imperative, i have confirmed this markscheme with a teacher. The passage could have been talking about it in the general sense so no translation is 'more correct' than the other. Pipe down.
Original post by Graceyfave
Nolite is a completely different association to nolo. Frankly the question would not make sense if you used that. The imperative of te makes it do not, as in an order, along with the re on the verb. The ablative absolute is fine both ways, and there was a subjunctive making it lest the ... Etc. but the examiners will have last say so don't fight :P


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I am sorry for appearing aggressive, but I sometimes feel frustrated when people do not take on board my view. The ablative absolute is wrong if it is in the passive form as it is formed using the present active participle.
Original post by Graceyfave
Yes I completely agree, people on ere are so aggressive sometimes hahhaa :smile: thank you very much btw, I was trying to back you up by argue


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Haha yes! Well I agree with you an the 'nolite' thing. It would simply NOT make sense if it isnt teanslated as 'Do not'. Our whole calssics department agrees with us :wink: hehe
Reply 154
Original post by sahajkaur
Hi guys, I've compiled a rough unofficial markscheme from what I can remember of the exam. Feel free to tell me more things to add if I have missed them out/or it is wrong. :smile:

1)He used to have many slaves
2)He was killed by one of his slaves
3)They were accustomed to punish all the slaves who were living in the same house by death
4)A huge crowd of people
5)Do not kill so many innocent slaves!
6)He sought the most serious punishment for such a dreadful crime.
7)‘It is not always good, senators, to follow traditions handed over by ancestors. Now, however what happens if slaves are able to kill masters without punishment? Surely you do not believe this slave prepared his plan alone, without others? Surely the rest knew what this one wanted to do?’

With these words Cassius was trying to persuade the senators to punish all the slaves of [name], both wicked and loyal. Some were afraid that in this way, innocent slaves would pay an unfair penalty. But Cassius had spoken so violently among the senators that no one dared to go against his opinion. The senators, therefore, when the few had been resisted, sent out soldiers to kill all the slaves of [name].


1: plurima is the superlative of multus. It was only a one mark question so the mark may not come from there but it's still a superlative.

5: Nolite is the imperative of nolo (not want) so is difficult to put as an imperative ('not want').

In the translation, you may consider 'paravisse' (to have prepared) so a pluperfect or equivalent would be better, ie surely you do not believe that this slave had prepared/this slave to have prepared his plan alone, without others?

Also where you put when the few had been resisted.. They weren't resisted, they were resisting.. As in after a few had resisted.

:smile:


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Original post by sahajkaur
Google nolo in the imperative, i have confirmed this markscheme with a teacher. The passage could have been talking about it in the general sense so no translation is 'more correct' than the other. Pipe down.


Fair enough, but I doubt they'll mark that wrong. The mark scheme is not fully correct, so are you sure you checked it with a teacher?
http://latindiscussion.com/forum/threads/nolite.8555
Should settle things if everyone is so intent on arguing..


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Original post by metaltron
Fair enough, but I doubt they'll mark that wrong. The mark scheme is not fully correct, so are you sure you checked it with a teacher?


I'm not having a go, but how would you know what is completely correct :/ no one absolutely knows, so I don't understand. I'm not having a go, but you're being slightly condescending.


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Original post by Graceyfave
I'm not having a go, but how would you know what is completely correct :/ no one absolutely knows, so I don't understand. I'm not having a go, but you're being slightly condescending.


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It hasn't been changed to active yet.. surely you don't disagree with that translation? You can't say you'll change it and then continually ignore intended constructive criticism.
Original post by hines
1: plurima is the superlative of multus. It was only a one mark question so the mark may not come from there but it's still a superlative.

5: Nolite is the imperative of nolo (not want) so is difficult to put as an imperative ('not want').

In the translation, you may consider 'paravisse' (to have prepared) so a pluperfect or equivalent would be better, ie surely you do not believe that this slave had prepared/this slave to have prepared his plan alone, without others?

Also where you put when the few had been resisted.. They weren't resisted, they were resisting.. As in after a few had resisted.

:smile:


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Sorry I meant to change that ages ago! Well we were told in the indirect statement if the verb to say (or eq) is present then the subjunctive should be prasnlated as perfect but both would be correct.
And nolo in the imperative(nolite) is an instruction to not do something. I just checked :smile: Thanks!

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