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According to economist article, Jews are genetically superior

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Original post by Bey Taco
The chinas, their self discipline and courage is something the rest of the world can only dream of.

Europeans are tactical and strategic.



I admire The Chinas as well, I also like The Europes and The Englands and I'm fond of The Spains.
Original post by poohat
Everything you say is true but its also really obvious and researchers who study intelligence have spent the last 50 years coming up with ways to control for most of it. To take a simple example, adoption studies are routinely used to control for family environment by looking at the performance of children from ethnic group X who have been raised by people from ethnic group Y. It is now almost certain that group IQ differences are not just a result of family upbringing/education/etc, the remaining question is whether they might be caused by more subtle things like stereotype threat.


It's a very controversial topic because obviously the deceleration that certain people have a higher level of intelligence that another due to their genetics is bound to cause trouble but at this point is does look like some kids are just born smarter than others. Environmental effects probably do play at least a slight part especially when looking at intelligence from a purely academic success standpoint as for stereotype threat and the like thats really a job for sociologists but i wouldn't be flabbergasted if it did play a slight role.
Reply 122

Original post by SoNottingH
I admire The Chinas as well, I also like The Europes and The Englands and I'm fond of The Spains.



:colondollar:

Lets pretend it didnt happen. :colone:
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Bey Taco




:colondollar:

Let's pretend it didnt happen. :colone:


Lulz, yes, let's!

I'm off to the Londons shortly.
Original post by SoNottingH
I admire The Chinas as well, I also like The Europes and The Englands and I'm fond of The Spains.


chinas or chinese? that superior jew brain of yours again.
Reply 125
Original post by SoNottingH
Lulz, yes, let's!

I'm off to the Londons shortly.


Are you sure the Scotlands aren't better company? :colone:
Original post by Hypocrism
I would say so, it's likely that throughout our separation we have developed slightly different gene pools, after all we know that due to various evolutionary pressures Africans are far more likely than Caucasians to have sickle cell anaemia, while Caucasians are a lot more prone to cystic fibrosis. This means, yes, we are different genetically and probably have slightly different organs (on average) to people of other races compared to people of your own race.

Not that it's noticeable, but it's a bit ignorant to say that races are genetically identical when there's probably even a genetic difference between the historical English upper class and lower class. (Note: not in a way that makes either superior, but in a purely chance way. Probably each could be identified through their genomes if we bothered to differentiate and study it, simply because the culture of breeding within your own class restricts the gene pool available, and the family pedigrees available, creating a small bottleneck which will cause differentiation.)

So would say that it's unknown or unlikely that most of the 25-30K genes underwent any notable selection?

(BTW; I'm not saying that there is an identical gene distribution amongst races, obviously there is not. But when someone makes a claim about Genetics that I don't think has been established, I have an issue with that.)

When we are comparing allele distributions, it only makes sense if there are more than one form of a gene. The huge problem I see is that we don't have any genes, let alone different alleles which contribute to IQ. The article in the OP just came up with a possible mechanism by which these alleles could be selected for, as an explanation for something which there is a reasonable chance does not even exist.

There have been very few generations separation between every human on the planet, and it's hard enough to distinguish any genetic component that contribute to IQ. I'd be surprised if there was anything like the selection pressure people seem to think there was.
Reply 127
Original post by SexyNerd
yes, but they have been discredited. I know people who have the same IQ as Einstein supposedly had, they may be the same in terms of IQ but certainly not intelligence.


You're talking nonsense. IQ has never been discredited except by leftists who think that everyone is born equal. Most psychologists and scientists believe IQ to be a very good indicator of natural intelligence. Also, the argument that IQ tests are culturally biased does not hold water since for the past few decades IQ tests have been developed that are completely abstract and therefore do not confer cultural disadvantages.
Reply 128
Original post by Piprod01
So would say that it's unknown or unlikely that most of the 25-30K genes underwent any notable selection?

(BTW; I'm not saying that there is an identical gene distribution amongst races, obviously there is not. But when someone makes a claim about Genetics that I don't think has been established, I have an issue with that.)

When we are comparing allele distributions, it only makes sense if there are more than one form of a gene. The huge problem I see is that we don't have any genes, let alone different alleles which contribute to IQ. The article in the OP just came up with a possible mechanism by which these alleles could be selected for, as an explanation for something which there is a reasonable chance does not even exist.

There have been very few generations separation between every human on the planet, and it's hard enough to distinguish any genetic component that contribute to IQ. I'd be surprised if there was anything like the selection pressure people seem to think there was.


I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. The different human races have been separated for hundreds of thousands of years. The neanderthals became a separate species from homo sapiens in less than 500 000 years. The difference between africans and europeans for example is at least 120 000 years. How is that 'very few' generations? In evolution terms that would be enough to create a new species depending on how strong evolutionary pressures were.
Original post by Piprod01
So would say that it's unknown or unlikely that most of the 25-30K genes underwent any notable selection?

(BTW; I'm not saying that there is an identical gene distribution amongst races, obviously there is not. But when someone makes a claim about Genetics that I don't think has been established, I have an issue with that.)

When we are comparing allele distributions, it only makes sense if there are more than one form of a gene. The huge problem I see is that we don't have any genes, let alone different alleles which contribute to IQ. The article in the OP just came up with a possible mechanism by which these alleles could be selected for, as an explanation for something which there is a reasonable chance does not even exist.

There have been very few generations separation between every human on the planet, and it's hard enough to distinguish any genetic component that contribute to IQ. I'd be surprised if there was anything like the selection pressure people seem to think there was.


I don't know if intelligence is affected by genetics at all. It could be, it might not be. I don't think we know enough about the development of the central nervous system yet-it's very possible the "intelligence" we get is due to nurture not genetics.

But I do know that selection pressures have had noticeable differences between races, so I was merely saying that it's not impossible for intelligence to be different between us. However, I doubt it's significant, because intelligence has been one of the important selection factors for all of human kind for a very, very long time. A few thousand years is unlikely to make a difference, seeing as most of our genetics are identical to the Romans', according to my genetics of disease lectures. The only exceptions I can immediately think if are when we have a bottleneck like migration of a small population to an isolated area, and epidemics which caused variations in cystic fibrosis due to cholera, and sickle cell anaemia due to malaria. Plus certainly others I don't know about.
Reply 130
Original post by Hypocrism
I don't know if intelligence is affected by genetics at all. It could be, it might not be. I don't think we know enough about the development of the central nervous system yet-it's very possible the "intelligence" we get is due to nurture not genetics.
Heritability of IQ at the individual (rather than group) level is fairly well-established and is one of the least controversial claims in the field, see http://moemesto.ru/rorschach_club/file/6314265/182%20bouchard%202003.pdf (page 12) for a review of the evidence (also the wikipedia page is quite good and well-referenced)

While isolating a gene is obviously the gold standard when it comes to demonstrating genetic influence, there are other ways to find evidence of heritability at the population level, eg by looking at the correlation between biological and adopted siblings. For example, twins raised apart have a far higher IQ correlation with each other than they do with their adopted siblings (in fact the adult IQ correlation between adopted siblings is close to zero).
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Antifascist
You're talking nonsense. IQ has never been discredited except by leftists who think that everyone is born equal. Most psychologists and scientists believe IQ to be a very good indicator of natural intelligence. Also, the argument that IQ tests are culturally biased does not hold water since for the past few decades IQ tests have been developed that are completely abstract and therefore do not confer cultural disadvantages.


really, my research indicates something different. rather than attack their politics (assuming you're right), why don't you attack their arguments.
Original post by Antifascist
I'm sorry but that's just complete nonsense. The different human races have been separated for hundreds of thousands of years. The neanderthals became a separate species from homo sapiens in less than 500 000 years. The difference between africans and europeans for example is at least 120 000 years. How is that 'very few' generations? In evolution terms that would be enough to create a new species depending on how strong evolutionary pressures were.


anti-fascist, really means massive racist.

"Humans often categorize themselves in terms of race or ethnicity, sometimes on the basis of differences in appearance (meaning racial classfications are based on the way we look). Most current genetic and archaeological evidence supports a recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa. Race and ethnicity are among major factors in social identity giving rise to various forms of identity politics, e.g., racism.
There is no scientific consensus of a list of the human races , and few anthropologists endorse the notion of human "race" . Genetic studies have substantiated the absence of clear biological borders, thus the term "race" is rarely used in scientific terminology, both in biological anthropology and in human genetics."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Race_and_ethnicity
Original post by KingMessi
Thank you for those - though the third one didn't work. :erm: I think, as you say, it's especially significant that the highest gains appear to be in the most 'g-loaded' areas...


It just said that music lessons for young children could increase IQ, the sample size was small and tbh it was sort of banal as in it said that it is already widely know that music lessons can increase mathematical and spatial ability, but IQ tests, test for both these things anyway, so no real suprises.

Original post by KingMessi

Would you then argue that general 'intelligence' is rising, or that it's simply an increased aptitude for taking tests? Or would you say that, in this context, the two can be seen as largely synonymous?


Yes, in the developed and developing world and I don't think it can be put down to more exposure to IQ tests because practising for them doesn't make much difference on the professional quality ones. The gains have also been bigger in the traditionally poorer and less educated groups in the west too.

Original post by KingMessi

Of course anyone with a basic knowledge of biology and/or psychology wouldn't ever claim that genetics doesn't have a role to play in intelligence - how could it not? :s-smilie: - but it's equally foolish to suggest that environmental factors aren't equally conducive to intelligence level.


I agree, most scientists seem to think that during the younger years the envrionment affects which genes are expressed and how the expression manifests, so it's both and actually which genes it is are starting to be discovered. I would also guess that the combination of genes a person inherits determines by how much the environment matters to that individual.


With
Original post by KingMessi
regards to my suggestion that it could be interpreted as a contradiction, I suppose that's true - however, that means it's imperative that intelligence (and, hence, I.Q.) aren't seen as a fixed entity, but a 'fluid' one - that is to say, absolutist determinism is a rather silly position to take in light of this evidence.


I think it becomes fixed during early twenties, but lots of mallleable attributes can be meaningfully tested such as deadlifting ability and this attribute can be used in new stuations which require strength.


Original post by KingMessi

I think that it's also worth noting, as you say, that there are a number of different I.Q. tests, many of which are a waste of time at best and fraudulent at worst


I think this is where the myth that it is meaningless comes from, the dim and annoying work colleague scores 150 in his lunch break and runs on about it and obviously nobody takes him seriously and then the media jumps in and tells everyone that it doesn't matter so the opinion is reinforced. The Mismeasure of Man for example, is a highly egalitarian leaning book but when you dig a little deeper many of the claims the author made were dishonest and this gives lots of fuel for biological determinists to create staw mans, it actually addresses the issue of Jewish IQ and says that when Jews first came to America they had low IQs but the study cited was carried out on Jews who had learning disabilities, but the book makes no mention of this detail...whoops or not.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 134
well I think it is pretty scientifically dishonest to say that there cannot be differences in average intelligence between races, because we clearly are genetically different. different genetic diseases occur with different frequencies between races and we openly accept that there are physical differences between races, but for some reason people think that on intelligence every race must be equal.

and you know what? it doesn't even matter. even if races have different intelligences, there is still a large distribution of intelligence within the race, and a large overlap between them. if we were to pretend for a second that white supremists are right (and I want to make it very clear that I do not agree with them) and black people are on average less intelligent than white people, that wouldn't change the fact that there are plenty of black people well above the average white intelligence and plenty of white people well below the average black intelligence. people from all races can be morons or geniuses, and so we should be treating people based on how intelligent they are as individuals
Reply 135
Original post by SexyNerd
anti-fascist, really means massive racist.

"Humans often categorize themselves in terms of race or ethnicity, sometimes on the basis of differences in appearance (meaning racial classfications are based on the way we look). Most current genetic and archaeological evidence supports a recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa. Race and ethnicity are among major factors in social identity giving rise to various forms of identity politics, e.g., racism.
There is no scientific consensus of a list of the human races , and few anthropologists endorse the notion of human "race" . Genetic studies have substantiated the absence of clear biological borders, thus the term "race" is rarely used in scientific terminology, both in biological anthropology and in human genetics."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Race_and_ethnicity


Anthropologists are not real scientists.
Original post by Antifascist
Anthropologists are not real scientists.


is that the best you've got?
I really think it is cultural as opposed to genetic.

I also believe in the IQ threshold, apart from certain fields, your IQ only needs to be so high before other factors become more important such as work ethic or the ability to take initiative. So its a bit of a moot point.
I think they found out we're talking about them:

Jews
1. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF FILTH.
Ephraim Wachsman, who seemed to me to be the keynote speaker due to the high percentage of English he could work into his sentences, cited a "scientific study" done six years ago that found that "36% of websites are filth."

Now, I'm guessing by "filth" he meant porn, although the p-word was never uttered from the stage, but it wasn't just about porn. The incidental filth can be just as seductive, apparently. Things like banner ads, or just subtle temptations, and non-religious thinking. At the very root of it, most of the media and information on the internet falls outside of the realm of ultra-Orthodox study (which mostly surrounds the Torah and Talmud, and other texts closely related to those books), and therefore is to be viewed with deep suspicion. Also, though: porn.

Even communication and social media can be minefields: for instance, if you're not supposed to interact with women, then Facebook is probably a place you want to avoid. Nothing so specific was said, at least in English, but it was pretty easy to gather.

Ultimately, most of the rabbis coalesced around the idea that the internet should be avoided whenever possible, and that it probably doesn't belong in a home at all. When it's being used, hopefully only for work purposes, it should have a filter on it. But even with a filter, it was important to be careful: "filters don't really work," warned one rabbi.


http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/22/3035274/against-the-future-inside-the-jewish-anti-internet-rally
Original post by InspectorSophie
I really think it is cultural as opposed to genetic.

I also believe in the IQ threshold, apart from certain fields, your IQ only needs to be so high before other factors become more important such as work ethic or the ability to take initiative. So its a bit of a moot point.


Are good looks/attraction tied to IQ? I read this thing that intelligent people are more attractive generally.

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