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We need capital punishment back.
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Original post by Sephiroth
Where is the evidence that rehabilitation is better than capital punishment? How many re-offenders come from people who have been rehabilitated vs people who have been killed? I can guarantee that less crime is committed by the latter, therefore it's better.
As NYU said, if a person is rehabilitated they won't commit a crime. If a person hasn't been rehabilitated, for a serious crime like murder, rape etc, then they shouldn't really be out of prison until they are rehabilitatd.
Also the evidence that rehabilitation is better than punishment is easily available; Scandinavian countries that focus on rehabilitation have half the reoffending rate than the UK and USA have (who focus on punishing criminals instead).
You're missing the point. The system let's people out who they THINK have been rehabilitated. Turns out they haven't and they re-offend. You can't guarantee anyone you let out has been rehabilitated enough to not re-offend until they die of old age.
Is it? I don't believe killing people is morally wrong in every situation so don't give me that. If killing people can save more lives than it destroys then I see it as beneficial. This is why we send troops into other countries.
That's a fault of the way it's handled, not the death penalty. After all bullets are very cheap and if they were shot on the spot in court when sentenced to death I imagine it would cost barely anything.
As NYU said, if a person is rehabilitated they won't commit a crime. If a person hasn't been rehabilitated, for a serious crime like murder, rape etc, then they shouldn't really be out of prison until they are rehabilitatd.
You can't guarantee any individual won't re-offend. It's impossible.
Is it? I don't believe killing people is morally wrong in every situation so don't give me that. If killing people can save more lives than it destroys then I see it as beneficial. This is why we send troops into other countries.
That's a fault of the way it's handled, not the death penalty. After all bullets are very cheap and if they were shot on the spot in court when sentenced to death I imagine it would cost barely anything.
Original post by Silkysam
You can't guarantee any individual won't re-offend. It's impossible.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Sephiroth
You can't guarantee any individual won't re-offend. It's impossible.
But you can't guarantee anything. I can't guarantee that a car won't knock me off my bike and kill me, shall we just ban all cars from the road to prevent this?
If you agree that killing people is wrong, then you've defeated your own argument. In order for the death penalty to be acceptable, killing people is not always wrong and can be justified.
Again, ignoring the point. Killing a civilian who has done nothing wrong is wrong. But killing someone who has killed that civilian must be and be killed. That doesn't however detract from my purpose.
You cannot assert "killing is wrong" and then advocate for the death penalty. This is an assertion of "P, but not-P", technically called a Moorean statement. Such statements are not permissible, as they are self-contradicting.
Yes, I can. Why, don't you anti cp people say so that killing is wrong? Killing innocent people is wrong, that I say so, but killing those who are guilty, is not wrong at all. You seem to have also ignored the point I made about the soldiers. You should have taken that argument out of me.
Basic understanding of logic, please have it and use it.
When one cannot answer a simple question, one cannot say it to the other, and that one does not have any common sense.
On a final note, none of the "evidence" you used was evidence at all - either it was logically invalid or simply did not support your argument. Most of it attempted to argue against straw men or simply assumed contentious or even competely false premises.
I have said I have gone on pro death penatly websites, and have posted the evidence. Again, I won't bother because you will just deny and deny despite the fact that Sheldor herself said it was a ''brilliant'' argument. I want you to deny, because what else will you do apart from it? Deny, do it, and I won't get angry over it.
So far you've merely managed to be a perfect example to everyone of how logically inconsistent one must be in order to accept your position - which, as has been demonstrated, is not logically valid or not logically supported. None of the arguments you've given actually support your position.
When you are not arguing my points, then how is this anything to be related with? You didn't answer my points, you denied them, and you ignored them. Damn your fancy language,behind that disguise is you simply refusing to accept it , you didn't do anything when I posted those two pages of evidence, where were you then? Once I was banned, you stepped in and dismissed it. So I wouldn't bother talking to someone like you, if you deny, then why are we actually talking to each other? You have constantly said I make no contribution whatsoever, so what you have been doing telling me the whole time that I did nothing when you could have just debated the points? Ah forget it, no use in talking with you.
You are no debater. You are simply a ignorer.
Again, ignoring the point. Killing a civilian who has done nothing wrong is wrong. But killing someone who has killed that civilian must be and be killed. That doesn't however detract from my purpose.
You cannot assert "killing is wrong" and then advocate for the death penalty. This is an assertion of "P, but not-P", technically called a Moorean statement. Such statements are not permissible, as they are self-contradicting.
Yes, I can. Why, don't you anti cp people say so that killing is wrong? Killing innocent people is wrong, that I say so, but killing those who are guilty, is not wrong at all. You seem to have also ignored the point I made about the soldiers. You should have taken that argument out of me.
Basic understanding of logic, please have it and use it.
When one cannot answer a simple question, one cannot say it to the other, and that one does not have any common sense.
On a final note, none of the "evidence" you used was evidence at all - either it was logically invalid or simply did not support your argument. Most of it attempted to argue against straw men or simply assumed contentious or even competely false premises.
I have said I have gone on pro death penatly websites, and have posted the evidence. Again, I won't bother because you will just deny and deny despite the fact that Sheldor herself said it was a ''brilliant'' argument. I want you to deny, because what else will you do apart from it? Deny, do it, and I won't get angry over it.
So far you've merely managed to be a perfect example to everyone of how logically inconsistent one must be in order to accept your position - which, as has been demonstrated, is not logically valid or not logically supported. None of the arguments you've given actually support your position.
When you are not arguing my points, then how is this anything to be related with? You didn't answer my points, you denied them, and you ignored them. Damn your fancy language,behind that disguise is you simply refusing to accept it , you didn't do anything when I posted those two pages of evidence, where were you then? Once I was banned, you stepped in and dismissed it. So I wouldn't bother talking to someone like you, if you deny, then why are we actually talking to each other? You have constantly said I make no contribution whatsoever, so what you have been doing telling me the whole time that I did nothing when you could have just debated the points? Ah forget it, no use in talking with you.
You are no debater. You are simply a ignorer.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Sephiroth
Where is the evidence that rehabilitation is better than capital punishment? How many re-offenders come from people who have been rehabilitated vs people who have been killed? I can guarantee that less crime is committed by the latter, therefore it's better.
Actually that's a valid point, indeed, none of the anti cp people cannot present any evidence if we ask them to present it.
Original post by Sephiroth
The problem with democracy is the majority get what they want.
The problem with this is that the majority of people are stupid and incapable of knowing what's right for them.
Thus we end up with stupid policies like a justice system that favours the criminal and a prison system that is like a hotel, and a system where the majority are happy to pay for all this rather than just get rid of the person.
I hope one day that everyone will be educated enough to know what's best for them. Even better get rid of this failing democratic system and put machines in charge.
The problem with this is that the majority of people are stupid and incapable of knowing what's right for them.
Thus we end up with stupid policies like a justice system that favours the criminal and a prison system that is like a hotel, and a system where the majority are happy to pay for all this rather than just get rid of the person.
I hope one day that everyone will be educated enough to know what's best for them. Even better get rid of this failing democratic system and put machines in charge.
Well said, that is what is exactly happening today, these people can deny it, but they know very well what you're saying. Agreed, that is what is happening, and we have fools today to rule this world.
Original post by The Marshall
Actually that's a valid point, indeed, none of the anti cp people cannot present any evidence if we ask them to present it.
Interesting, considering we gave evidence for several pages. Not only that, but when you last said you couldn't find the evidence (a few pages ago), I took it upon myself to copy it all into one post and post it AGAIN for you to see.
Please, do not insult people's intelligence and say that we haven't provided evidence. It is in plain view for everyone to see, and has been repeated.
Look, if you people are gonna debate on simple sentences, then its a clear waste of time. The more you ignore, the more I don't care, because seriously, that was a sentence, what's so special about a sentence? Does it show you are dumb people that get angry over one comment? Haha.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Interesting, considering we gave evidence for several pages. Not only that, but when you last said you couldn't find the evidence (a few pages ago), I took it upon myself to copy it all into one post and post it AGAIN for you to see.
Please, do not insult people's intelligence and say that we haven't provided evidence. It is in plain view for everyone to see, and has been repeated.
Please, do not insult people's intelligence and say that we haven't provided evidence. It is in plain view for everyone to see, and has been repeated.
I will insult clearly as you have ignored what I've said. I've looked through and tell you again, there is no proper evidence being presented. You didn't copy anything and you did not post anything for me to see. Seriously, I mean it. Where is this grand '' evidence '' that shows me anything. You have not provided any evidence, if you claim that my evidence doesn't fit the argument, then I'm sorry, but I will have to do the same as well, I haven't seen any single evidence whatsoever apart from no's, leaving a few statements, leaving a tiny amount of evidence. So, no, I will not accept that you did provide evidence, because common sense is needed in a debate, not intelligance disguised in fancy '' intelligant'' words as such.
You say you've ignored me clearly. Lol, you have ignored everything I've said, how many times must I go on with this thing? Clearly it shows you have no common sense.
2nd. Killing a civilian is wrong, but killing a criminal is not. You will not change my view on that.
When you say I've done false assumptions, I have no reason, nor no wish to debate with a guy who has no common sense. Simple as that.
2nd. Killing a civilian is wrong, but killing a criminal is not. You will not change my view on that.
When you say I've done false assumptions, I have no reason, nor no wish to debate with a guy who has no common sense. Simple as that.
We don't need it.
Original post by The Marshall
I will insult clearly as you have ignored what I've said. I've looked through and tell you again, there is no proper evidence being presented. You didn't copy anything and you did not post anything for me to see. Seriously, I mean it. Where is this grand '' evidence '' that shows me anything. You have not provided any evidence, if you claim that my evidence doesn't fit the argument, then I'm sorry, but I will have to do the same as well, I haven't seen any single evidence whatsoever apart from no's, leaving a few statements, leaving a tiny amount of evidence. So, no, I will not accept that you did provide evidence, because common sense is needed in a debate, not intelligance disguised in fancy '' intelligant'' words as such.
You've actually got to be joking... We went through this conversation before, and I re-posted all of the links and quotes, and you seemed pleased with being presented with the evidence.
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
What part of not talking to someone when he denies someone's evidence do you understand? Haha.
Unless you can keep your volume turned down, I will not provide any evidence because you are bound to reject it. So no, once again.
Unless you can keep your volume turned down, I will not provide any evidence because you are bound to reject it. So no, once again.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
You've actually got to be joking... We went through this conversation before, and I re-posted all of the links and quotes, and you seemed pleased with being presented with the evidence.
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
You again? Why must it always be you? Worst mod ever!
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
Erm....thats rubbish. I was never happy to accept anything of yours. You never pointed out anything to me and all you did was exactly the same thing NYU2012 is doing.
ou've actually got to be joking... We went through this conversation before, and I re-posted all of the links and quotes, and you seemed pleased with being presented with the evidence.
Lies, lies and lies and even more lies. You have not given me any links, nor qoutes, only that the evidence I provided was nothing. So once again, rejected.
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You said before that the evidence I presented was false. How do you expect me to argue for CP when it should be biased? If you people can argue for anti cp so passionately, then it is biased. What you're doing openly is biased opinion and facts. Why can't we do that? You have presented sources from a biased source. If someone here on your side didn't use a neutral source , you would not have said a word to him, not a single word. So, I do not and will not agree to anything as to whatever you have said.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
After telling me a whole load of '' you are useless, your evidence, blah, blah'' I have no wish nor do I even want to refer to your comment which holds no evidence whatsoever.
Original post by The Marshall
You again? Why must it always be you? Worst mod ever!
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
Erm....thats rubbish. I was never happy to accept anything of yours. You never pointed out anything to me and all you did was exactly the same thing NYU2012 is doing.
ou've actually got to be joking... We went through this conversation before, and I re-posted all of the links and quotes, and you seemed pleased with being presented with the evidence.
Lies, lies and lies and even more lies. You have not given me any links, nor qoutes, only that the evidence I provided was nothing. So once again, rejected.
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You said before that the evidence I presented was false. How do you expect me to argue for CP when it should be biased? If you people can argue for anti cp so passionately, then it is biased. What you're doing openly is biased opinion and facts. Why can't we do that? You have presented sources from a biased source. If someone here on your side didn't use a neutral source , you would not have said a word to him, not a single word. So, I do not and will not agree to anything as to whatever you have said.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
After telling me a whole load of '' you are useless, your evidence, blah, blah'' I have no wish nor do I even want to refer to your comment which holds no evidence whatsoever.
You were happy to accept my evidence previously, so you clearly don't have a problem with it. You're just unhappy that no one takes your evidence seriously because of how bias it is.
Erm....thats rubbish. I was never happy to accept anything of yours. You never pointed out anything to me and all you did was exactly the same thing NYU2012 is doing.
ou've actually got to be joking... We went through this conversation before, and I re-posted all of the links and quotes, and you seemed pleased with being presented with the evidence.
Lies, lies and lies and even more lies. You have not given me any links, nor qoutes, only that the evidence I provided was nothing. So once again, rejected.
The evidence that I am speaking of was from various sources, most of which were neautral or pure statistics (which can't be bias); yours was mostly quotes from a CP supporting site, therefore is not from a neutral source at all and so does not refute my arguments.
You said before that the evidence I presented was false. How do you expect me to argue for CP when it should be biased? If you people can argue for anti cp so passionately, then it is biased. What you're doing openly is biased opinion and facts. Why can't we do that? You have presented sources from a biased source. If someone here on your side didn't use a neutral source , you would not have said a word to him, not a single word. So, I do not and will not agree to anything as to whatever you have said.
For your reference, my repeat of all the evidence is post no. 312, on page 16
After telling me a whole load of '' you are useless, your evidence, blah, blah'' I have no wish nor do I even want to refer to your comment which holds no evidence whatsoever.
It's me because we were having a conversation... This was in response to you.
This has nothing to do with my position as a moderator, as I'm not modding at all, so I don't know why you insist on bringing it up all of the time.
You clearly are just trolling now. I gave you many quotes (twice, and I've referred you to the post), and links along with my evidence. The fact that you are denying this exists cries out "troll", because it is plain as day that it does exist.
Nothing I posted was an opinion. It was almost entirely statistics, with some studies thrown in there too. You have provided nothing of this quality.
Until you can show something that actually refutes this evidence (instead of just denying its existence because you're losing the argument), then you have lost the debate and there is no point in continuing.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
It's me because we were having a conversation... This was in response to you.
This has nothing to do with my position as a moderator, as I'm not modding at all, so I don't know why you insist on bringing it up all of the time.
You clearly are just trolling now. I gave you many quotes (twice, and I've referred you to the post), and links along with my evidence. The fact that you are denying this exists cries out "troll", because it is plain as day that it does exist.
Nothing I posted was an opinion. It was almost entirely statistics, with some studies thrown in there too. You have provided nothing of this quality.
Until you can show something that actually refutes this evidence (instead of just denying its existence because you're losing the argument), then you have lost the debate and there is no point in continuing.
This has nothing to do with my position as a moderator, as I'm not modding at all, so I don't know why you insist on bringing it up all of the time.
You clearly are just trolling now. I gave you many quotes (twice, and I've referred you to the post), and links along with my evidence. The fact that you are denying this exists cries out "troll", because it is plain as day that it does exist.
Nothing I posted was an opinion. It was almost entirely statistics, with some studies thrown in there too. You have provided nothing of this quality.
Until you can show something that actually refutes this evidence (instead of just denying its existence because you're losing the argument), then you have lost the debate and there is no point in continuing.
Worst Mod Ever! You must accept it! I don't care now because when I was group bullied, you did nothing. So there's your title.
You clearly are just trolling now. I gave you many quotes (twice, and I've referred you to the post), and links along with my evidence. The fact that you are denying this exists cries out "troll", because it is plain as day that it does exist.
Nothing I posted was an opinion. It was almost entirely statistics, with some studies thrown in there too. You have provided nothing of this quality.
I also posted the same with the statistics. I also posted the same, but I do not believe I am trolling. People have insulted me, bulled me, on this thread. You however, dismissed my evidence so I cannot accept yours. You are trying to be biased with the damn statistics and you should accept it!
Until you can show something that actually refutes this evidence (instead of just denying its existence because you're losing the argument), then you have lost the debate and there is no point in continuing.
Keep quiet. Ask Sheldor then. I have no where lost this debate, just because I was banned, then you lot started coming in. People that support CP should be able to argue their points instead of people who say they can't argue since their biased. No, that is not acceptable, and that I don't agree on. I deny any evidence posted from the anti cp people. You asked me to present evidence, I did so, now then, don't harass me into giving any more evidence because you are bound to reject it, and quite frankly, there is no use of talking to people like you.
(edited 11 years ago)
Also, do end this debate. Its become useless now.
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