Michael Gove Says School Holidays Are Too Long
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Original post by Observatory
If lengthening the day doesn't make education so much worse that it outweighs the benefit of having more of it then the policy is a net positive, right?
If lengthening the day doesn't make education so much worse that it outweighs the benefit of having more of it then the policy is a net positive, right?
Your position assumes there is inherent benefit in longer school hours. My position is that there isn't.
Original post by Observatory
Teachers are salaried workers so it's not clear they will be paid more for more hours - but again what's the left's problem with spending more on education to make it better? Isn't that what they've been saying they want to do for decades?
I can't speak for "the left", whoever they might be, but as above, my issue is not with spending money to make something better - it's with spending money to do nothing particularly useful with.
Original post by Observatory
If they're saying education actually isn't as useful as a lot of people think... <snip>
I don't think anyone is saying that.
Original post by Observatory
then I personally agree, but where were they on that issue 5, 10, 20 years ago where they kept putting in more money to decrease class sizes (empirically has little or no effect on outcomes) extend compulsion to 17/18 (worthless credentialing rat race) and paying the most marginal students EMA to stay in school (a statistically preferable alternaitve to the dole)? It seems they suddenly reversed the whole basis of their educational ideology for little more reason than they hate Michael Gove.
This has nothing to do with school holidays?
Original post by Observatory
Isn't it broke? Who knows? Without some kind of empirical evidence, no one.
Kids seem alright to me. Besides, perhaps the onus should be on the person who who wants change to empirically prove benefit rather than the contented people to prove harm?
Original post by SocksRock
Your position assumes there is inherent benefit in longer school hours. My position is that there isn't.
I can't speak for "the left", whoever they might be, but as above, my issue is not with spending money to make something better - it's with spending money to do nothing particularly useful with.
I can't speak for "the left", whoever they might be, but as above, my issue is not with spending money to make something better - it's with spending money to do nothing particularly useful with.
Then let's reduce the amount of education provided by the state. If not, why not? It would be a remarkable coincidence if a day and term system set up around freeing child labour to help with grain harvests happened to be exactly optimal for achieving results on standardised tests that wouldn't exist for another half century.
I don't think anyone is saying that.
You said it just now: "Your position assumes there is inherent benefit in longer school hours. My position is that there isn't."
You either think providing more education doesn't make people more educated (an extraordinary claim) or more education isn't useful.
This has nothing to do with school holidays?
They're all ways in which the government has increased the amount of time people have to spend in school.
Kids seem alright to me. Besides, perhaps the onus should be on the person who who wants change to empirically prove benefit rather than the contented people to prove harm?
That's reasonable, but you didn't say that. You said that you weren't interested in seeing evidence because you're "not a huge believer" in it.
Original post by SpiggyTopes
Michael Gove has said school holidays are too long- and on this occasion I agree with him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10003772/Cut-length-of-school-holidays-says-Michael-Gove.html
I've always found summer and end-of-term holidays too long. For me at least they're mostly wasted, mostly full of procrastination and also when I was younger (not so much now) I always came back after the summer about six months behind where I was when I left. Of course we need some holidays, and study leave but not as long as we have. I'm not sure whether I'd like longer school hours though... but staring and finishing an hour later would be nice! Extra time in bed!
What do you think?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10003772/Cut-length-of-school-holidays-says-Michael-Gove.html
I've always found summer and end-of-term holidays too long. For me at least they're mostly wasted, mostly full of procrastination and also when I was younger (not so much now) I always came back after the summer about six months behind where I was when I left. Of course we need some holidays, and study leave but not as long as we have. I'm not sure whether I'd like longer school hours though... but staring and finishing an hour later would be nice! Extra time in bed!
What do you think?
I think that he is clearly being ridiculous...again. Most people say that they feel that the summer holidays are a waste of time because they are so long, but I think of them differently. The summer is a time not only to relax and spend time with family and friends (the obvious), but it is also a time to build up both life and employability skills - right now my summer is already jam-packed with activities that I am planning on doing, and books that I am planning on reading and I am not even travelling abroad! School can sometimes be taxing and strenuous, and the summer holidays is a time given to us to just unwind - and when it gets closer to school resuming, revision starts again.
Re: the longer hours.
I don't think I could stand the longer hours, and it's not because it would be more time at school. At my state school teachers allow us to spend time in their classrooms if we want (sometimes the teacher is there to help, sometimes not) to revise using certain books, or work in small groups. My school day officially ends at 3:30 so all the lower school students leave which leaves certain students who want to work for a bit longer at school the chance to in a quiet environment without the younger students being around. Two of my friends are almost dependent on this because they don't have a working environment at home. The extension of the school day would mean that we'd have to decide whether we can face staying at school until gone 6. In the lower years I would never have been able to cope, I used to go home relax for a bit do some homework and then spend some time with my family which is what I rely on now, the fact that when I didn't have exams I spent time with my family, with the longer day I wouldn't have even had that.
And, as for the later start I think this has a great potential as I've heard in certain schools that follow this design they allow their students to come in to school at the earlier time to go over their work and revise or have the option to sleep.
Question Time made some interesting points on Thursday...
I don't think I could stand the longer hours, and it's not because it would be more time at school. At my state school teachers allow us to spend time in their classrooms if we want (sometimes the teacher is there to help, sometimes not) to revise using certain books, or work in small groups. My school day officially ends at 3:30 so all the lower school students leave which leaves certain students who want to work for a bit longer at school the chance to in a quiet environment without the younger students being around. Two of my friends are almost dependent on this because they don't have a working environment at home. The extension of the school day would mean that we'd have to decide whether we can face staying at school until gone 6. In the lower years I would never have been able to cope, I used to go home relax for a bit do some homework and then spend some time with my family which is what I rely on now, the fact that when I didn't have exams I spent time with my family, with the longer day I wouldn't have even had that.
And, as for the later start I think this has a great potential as I've heard in certain schools that follow this design they allow their students to come in to school at the earlier time to go over their work and revise or have the option to sleep.
Question Time made some interesting points on Thursday...
Original post by Observatory
You said it just now: "Your position assumes there is inherent benefit in longer school hours. My position is that there isn't."
You either think providing more education doesn't make people more educated (an extraordinary claim) or more education isn't useful.
You said it just now: "Your position assumes there is inherent benefit in longer school hours. My position is that there isn't."
You either think providing more education doesn't make people more educated (an extraordinary claim) or more education isn't useful.
You seem to entirely missed my argument, and I'm not willing to dumb it down any further. Have a good, long think about what I've actually been saying, instead of what you'd like to be arguing against, and let me know if you figure it out. Then we can discuss.
Kids need time to be kids.
The long summer holiday was a fantastic time to spend outside with my friends, learning social skills, overcoming fears, improving fitness (incidentally mind), independently exploring the world, etc. All valuable stuff and some of my fondest memories as a child.
Gove would rob children of these things to fulfill a utilitarian agenda aimed at producing mindless economic servants (who can do timestables and tell you all he kings and queens if England in order) to throw into the gaping jaws of business.
The long summer holiday was a fantastic time to spend outside with my friends, learning social skills, overcoming fears, improving fitness (incidentally mind), independently exploring the world, etc. All valuable stuff and some of my fondest memories as a child.
Gove would rob children of these things to fulfill a utilitarian agenda aimed at producing mindless economic servants (who can do timestables and tell you all he kings and queens if England in order) to throw into the gaping jaws of business.
Original post by SocksRock
You seem to entirely missed my argument, and I'm not willing to dumb it down any further. Have a good, long think about what I've actually been saying, instead of what you'd like to be arguing against, and let me know if you figure it out. Then we can discuss.
This is devoid of content.
Of course more education isn't necessarily useful.
If they're just going to ram the same crap down our throats they do now for a few extra hours each week then that's going to be no help what-so-ever. In fact, I'd argue it you'd be in danger of making things worse.
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If they're just going to ram the same crap down our throats they do now for a few extra hours each week then that's going to be no help what-so-ever. In fact, I'd argue it you'd be in danger of making things worse.
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I dont know really, I think that yes 6 week holidays will get boring after a while, but there are some holidays/ halfterms/ end of terms that are too short. I dont see the point in changing the system right now because the education system is changing so much, and if it changes too much; it'll get wrecked and will ask for more changes.
If I would change anything I would add an extra hour of school each day; I wouldn't mind getting 20% more time to revise because I feel rushed at the moment due to the lack of teaching hours...
If I would change anything I would add an extra hour of school each day; I wouldn't mind getting 20% more time to revise because I feel rushed at the moment due to the lack of teaching hours...
MP's.....So just remind me, how many weeks summer break did these over fed over paid ********s vote for themselves? 10? More?
If school holidays were shortened it would be horrendous. They provide such vital time for revision and more importantly A BREAK! We all need a break and I'm sure Gove takes plenty of them..
Original post by ffionhanathomas
If school holidays were shortened it would be horrendous. They provide such vital time for revision and more importantly A BREAK! We all need a break and I'm sure Gove takes plenty of them..
I agree. In every school holiday but the summer both pupils and staff alike have so much work to do that it is very difficult to find time to destress and relax. The summer however is long enough that people can have a proper break.
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Original post by myblueheaven339
I agree. In every school holiday but the summer both pupils and staff alike have so much work to do that it is very difficult to find time to destress and relax. The summer however is long enough that people can have a proper break.
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Exactly!
I forgot about the teachers though oops, but so true! The amount of marking they have to do is crazy so they definitely need a long enough set of holidays for this.
Original post by ffionhanathomas
Exactly!
I forgot about the teachers though oops, but so true! The amount of marking they have to do is crazy so they definitely need a long enough set of holidays for this.
I forgot about the teachers though oops, but so true! The amount of marking they have to do is crazy so they definitely need a long enough set of holidays for this.
Exactly. In no other job would you be expected to work through most of your holiday!
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All you people complaining that summer is too long aren't actually using it properly. My summer last year was 2 weeks on academic/ learning things 5 weeks of practising my instrument and trying to get for and a weeks holiday. I don't feel like I lazed about at all!
And besides sometimes there's nothing better then sitting around doing nothing anyways! Quit complaining about it!
And besides sometimes there's nothing better then sitting around doing nothing anyways! Quit complaining about it!
If he introduced these rules and he died, can the next education sec undo it? Anyway as for wasting your 6 weeks holidays, it is your very own fault, can't you just do some independent studying
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