Why can't I wear my hoodie?

Umm, students were some of the biggest supporters of Martin Luther King's peaceful protests and arguably were an integral part in his fight against racism.

Just to point it out. Just because something is a rule, it isn't necessarily right.

This thread is overflowing with stupid.

People whining about a lack of "equality": You HAVE equality. Muslim girls may wear headscarves, and so may you!

A hoodie is an informal garment, and annoying as it is when you're just looking for warmth/comfort, it doesn't really fit in an formal scenario (education). A headscarf is not a fashion or comfort item, it is serving a purpose.

I'm sorry but there's a very-large indeed difference between student banding together alongside non-students to battle injustice, and a school requiring students to take off hoodies, etc. Don't take my comment out of context, please. There's no point. Clearly out-of-context the phrase "Nothing has ever been gained by students going against the grain" is incorrect.

surely it depends on the school uniform policy if its business clothes then no a hoody isnt appropriate but a headscarf can be smart if its own clothes then you have a point

You can't meaningfullly dismiss a four paragraph post with one line. I explained why I didn't think it was hypocrisy - all you've said is you disagree, which you're welcome to do.

The OP quoted me and said, quite validly, that you can't rely on common sense in law because morality is subjective and the Nazis (as an extreme example) would apply common sense in quite a different way. He also seemed to think I had some blind faith in humanity. The latter isn't true - I just thought about his question and didn't think wearing a hoodie was comparable to wearing a headscarf, for the reasons outlined above.

I have two minds on this. On the one hand I can see the sense in having one rule for all, no matter how absurd some of the consequences. On the other, I think that if far right groups were gaining ground politically then it wouldn't matter what laws were subjective or not - they'd find a way of bending or changing them anyway.

My argument is not moral - it's practical. Not making special consideration for mainstream religious beliefs will lead to segregation, and since we seem to be stuck with multiculturalism that's the last thing we want. This doesn't mean pandering to every mad belief that comes along, and I hope that sooner or later all religious beliefs become like modern Christian ones in the UK.

However, just because we have a nation-wide problem with crazy indoctrination doesn't mean we should start lowering the standards for discipline in schools, which are hardly strict anyway.

How about this: The sixth form uniform allows a plain head scarf which any student of either gender can wear? I would support that.

How it is not injustice to treat one piece of cloth over another. We live in a secular society, religion should thus not be given preferential treatment.

Do you what, I agree. I hate it that they're allowed to wear they're headscarves and what-not but when I was a Christian and I used to wear my cross everywhere, I was always asked to remove it.

Radical Islam is far right and sadly it is gaining ground. Furthermore the reason why it must be applied to one or all is because otherwise you need some sort of authority to decide what is "a religious item" and what is not and the minute you have this that authority would have unlimited orwellian power, from the faliability of human nature no one should be invested with this authority.

Thanks for your response - I do think this point is very valid. Despite my defense of the rule, I don't have any great love of Islam (or any unfounded belief system). I guess what I'm trying to get at is the more general idea of the possibility of it being detrimental to our mixed society to stop treating religion as 'special'. I don't think deciding if something was really religious would lead immediately to 'unlimited Orwellian power', in the same way we have juries to bring an element of realism to the justice process, but I do see the impossibility of setting objective boundaries.

My sixth form universal headscarf idea was actually a bit stupid. But yes, I guess if the rule allows smart head covering of any type that's a reasonable way around this particular issue.

This thread is overflowing with stupid.

People whining about a lack of "equality": You HAVE equality. Muslim girls may wear headscarves, and so may you!

A hoodie is an informal garment, and annoying as it is when you're just looking for warmth/comfort, it doesn't really fit in an formal scenario (education). A headscarf is not a fashion or comfort item, it is serving a purpose.

Well a headscarf covers a females hair, you can see her face and be able to identify her easily, some hoodies hang over so you can't tell who it is which would obviously not be convinent in a school, just wear a thick jumper or maybe a school fleece? Classrooms shouldn't be that cold anyway

Er, what?

Have you actually read any Orwell, or are you just throwing that adjective around because it sounds good (if highly irrelevant)?

I'm not attempting to censor anything, and I don't actually believe in censorship. I'm also a staunch atheist, but have no issue with Muslim girls being allowed to cover their hair (though I don't agree with the full veil in a Western context), because it has absolutely no impact upon the rights or learning of other students. Headscarves do not obscure your facial features or identity.

Headscarf-wearers aren't allowed to wear hoodies, either.

EDIT: Ideally, I don't think there would be any uniform at all, and headscarves and hoodies could co-exist in peace! However, being that most UK schools still have it, it's as simple as scarves being smart and hoodies not. At my schools people were only allowed them in black.

And what purpose is this exactly?

- Covering the hair. Which can be for countless reasons - Some Muslims pay perceive hair as a sexualised body part and wish to cover it for their own modesty, some may just see it as a sign of respect to others/elders or purity.
- To show that they identify as a Muslim
- To continue in the way that they've been raised (if you'd worn a headscarf all throughout childhood, for instance, it might be highly noticeable if you suddenly stopped. Or, conversely, symbolise renewed faith or chastity.)

For the record, I'm an atheist and can sympathise with the points above, although I don't necessarily agree with them. If kippahs and crucifixes were disallowed, I wouldn't be supporting headscarf-wearers, but as it stands, religious people have the privilege of displaying symbols which do not affect other people.

So long as Sikhs can take their daggers and Druids can take their swords into schools. I imagine those two demographics getting away with showing their symbols will be difficult.

At sixth form today, I was asked to remove my hood by a teacher. Whilst I feel that everyone should be able to wear hoods or other garments that partially cover your identity, I complied.

Then, as the teacher walked off, he walked right past a girl wearing wearing a headscarf. He didn't seem to ask her to remove her clothing, are hoodies and headscarfs not equivocal in terms of the preventing easy identification?

Now my school is state run, so it is meant to be secular, thus why should state schools have one rule for religious pupils and another rule for non - religious pupils. Why should religious people be granted extra freedoms for simply being religious? The state and religion should be separate.

So is this a hoodiephobia, islamophobia or just an oversight of goverment policy regarding the wearing of hoods and headscarfs, as you are allowed to ban the wearing of hoodies on site but not headscarfs.

Such an attitude reminds of how the Jews were hated because of their financial success in Nazi Germany.