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Brown people on tsr do you think white people are naturally racist ?

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Reply 80
Original post by Georgie_M
Erm woah there!
Technically some black people are racist if you go by the dictionary definition of racist.
I spoke in my post about institutional racism being something which is ingrained in our society. I believe this is what you are also talking about ? I don't see why you are trying to argue with me when I was validating your perspective - although admittedly not to the same extreme degree.

Why do you think that 'systematic racism' and white privilege only seems to affect black people, and how do you explain the fact that British Indians and British Chinese typically achieve more than the white British population in terms of education (both A Level grades, and university) and salary, despite all the racism supposedly holding them back?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by theoferdinand
This was an article from the dailymail only about a week ago


UNBELIEVABLE:White babies just 15 months old show racial bias when picking playmates


article-2605633-01E673C200000578-33_634x426.jpg

Toddlers show racial bias when picking playmates, a study reveals.
They also take account of how fairly others behave.
Researchers tested the reaction of white 15-month-olds as toys were distributed.
Researchers found white babies favoured supervisors who showed bias towards others of their race

Researchers found white babies favoured supervisors who showed bias towards others of their race
Two white adults divided the toys, one equally and the other unequally.
Seventy per cent of the toddlers chose to play with the researcher who distributed the toys fairly.


But in a second test, when one researcher favoured a white recipient over an Asian one, they picked the ‘fair’ researcher less often, the journal Frontiers in Psychology reports.
And the babies are more likely to help those who share the same ethnicity, which is known as in-group bias when people favour those with the same characteristics as oneself.



The University of Washington team first noticed the phenomenon when the infants began playing favourites with the researchers during a previous experiment.
Professor Jessica Sommerville said: 'At the time, about half of the research assistants in my lab were Asian-American and the other half were Caucasian, and most of the babies in our experiments are Caucasian.
'We know that by preschool, children show in-group bias concerning race, but results in infants have been mixed.
'It's surprising to see these pro-social traits of valuing fairness so early on, but at the same time, we're also seeing that babies have self-motivated concerns too.'
The study revealed when it came to picking a playmate, the babies seemed more tolerant of unfairness when the white recipient benefited from it.
They picked the fair experimenter less often when the unfair experimenter gave more toys to the white recipient rather than the Asian one.
The researchers say this implies that babies can take into account both race and social history when deciding which person would make a better playmate.
Professor Jessica Sommerville of the University of Washington said: ‘If all babies care about is fairness, then they would always pick the fair distributor, but we’re also seeing that they’re interested in consequences for their own group members.’

The infants were handed toys by two researchers - one who handed them out fairly and one who did not

article-2605633-02C409D3000005DC-507_306x423.jpg


If this is an observable phenomenon then other newspapers besides the Mail will have reported it. If they didn't, then you've just learned something about the Daily Mail.
Reply 82
Original post by anosmianAcrimony
If this is an observable phenomenon then other newspapers besides the Mail will have reported it. If they didn't, then you've just learned something about the Daily Mail.


It would only have taken you 5 seconds to check yourself, genius

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Professor+Jessica+Sommerville+babies+racism
Original post by poohat
Why do you think that 'systematic racism' and white privilege only seems to affect black people, and how do you explain the fact that British Indians and British Chinese typically achieve more than the white British population in terms of education (both A Level grades, and university) and salary, despite all the racism supposedly holding them back?

Well because it is a far more complex situation than you give credit for, there are many variables most significantly culture. Therefore different nationalities have different biases, discriminations and achievements. Bangladeshi girls are the group with the worst educational attainment, this is for a variety of reasons. This is shortly followed by black males, if you need me to explain some of the reasons why then I would be happy to do so however if you are unable to critically analyse then maybe you should not be commenting on this thread.

Also I said institutional racism, which is different to systematic racism.
Reply 84
Original post by Georgie_M
Well because it is a far more complex situation than you give credit for, there are many variables most significantly culture. Therefore different nationalities have different biases, discriminations and achievements. Bangladeshi girls are the group with the worst educational attainment, this is for a variety of reasons. This is shortly followed by black males, if you need me to explain some of the reasons why then I would be happy to do so.

Yes, I would very much like you to explain why you think that systematic/institutional racism only seems to hold back black people and doesnt prevent other non-white groups from outperforming the white population, this is why I asked you

For reference, the low achievement of Bangladeshi's is specifically due to immigration patterns over the last 15 years, namely that most immigrants from Bangladesh have been incredibly low skilled (ie there is good reason to believe they are actually worse than other groups on average, for reasons that have nothing to do with discrimination - the poor performance of Bangladeshi's is present even when you look at 4 year olds that have not started school). Immigration from India/China has not been so concentrated on the low-skill part of the distribution.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Georgie_M
While I 100% agree that racism occurs on both sides with individuals and is equally deplorable either side the reason attention focuses more on ethnic minorities is because these are the individuals who face institutional racism. Institutional racism is pervasive and affects all areas of the uk.

It is important to understand the historical context because this is what has lead to the state we are in today. Institutional racism is interlinked with poverty caused by historical factors so we must try and understand them.

Yes racism goes both ways but comparing the two is ignoring the bigger problem, IMO.

I also grew up in a 'non-racist' area, i.e a middle class white city with a very low proportion of ethnic minority individuals. As a white person I never saw racism as such, however for my friend of Arabic decent it was all too real. I can also look at the figures and clearly see ethnic minorities (there is differences between ethnicities) are disadvantaged in almost every area. White individuals are not. That is why people care more about racism against minorities.


I'm sorry about your friend :frown:, but our experiences are reversed, racism was all-too-real for me in my context as well. I not using one level to excuse the other, I am merely highlighted a social issue that people seem adamant to avoid - racism is a two way street and it's pernicious effects bounce back between the two.
Whilst I do accept people must see that ethnic-minorities are disadvantaged due to their historical-context, but like any race! there are poor and rich within their and we must not forget the disadvantaged whites as well as the disadvantaged ethnic minorities. :frown:
Experiences differ dependant on context, this is mine, that is yours and we re council on one principle - racism is bad. But racism, like the human race is and always will be it, is far more complicated than people would have us believe. We must also accept that also.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 86
The Rules Of White Thinking

1) When white people do something good, like inventions ?

They ignore the history books and act like they are the only ones and the main ones at that.

Conclusion ? History does not matter now

2) When whites do something bad, like slavery ?

They act like they are not the only ones and point out other examples in history.

Conclusion ? History matters now

How convienent

I guess white people never went into black Africa and played their own form of monopoly. Carving up the country in ways that it was never meant to be.

Making countries where none existed before, ruling over these places subjugating the people all the while sucking out the natural resources then leaving them in a shambles then they think all it takes is to one day say, go free! And BAM !! Those people are able to catch up.

Who are these phantoms that run amok and then act like the innocent bystander with their hands in the air crying “Hey stop blaming whitey?”

Most whites on TSR suffer in the area of perception, as its limited to what other people they respect have told them as opposed to finding their own knowledge and understanding.

They are like a ref who catches the end of the play and calls the foul based on what they saw.

I on the other hand have seen the play develop and saw the first elbow thrown.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 87
Original post by poohat
How do you explain the fact that pretty much every society has 'socially conditioned' its people to be racist in some way? Is this just an enormous coincidence?

Arguments that things are 'socially conditioned' look weak when the things under discussion exist in pretty much every culture. Again, ingroup vs outgroup thinking is pretty fundamental to how humans reason, although the precise forms that 'ingroups' take do vary.


Every society has flaws, ie racism, sexism, homophobia. Every society in human history has included discrimination.
some of them are some of them arnt
Reply 89
Original post by LpoolDel
The Rules Of White Thinking
stuff.

You seem nuts. Why are you even in the UK if you hate it so much?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by theoferdinand
Do you?

I'e do you think they are born that way.

If so why?


Do you?
Reply 91
Original post by poohat
Why do you think that 'systematic racism' and white privilege only seems to affect black people, and how do you explain the fact that British Indians and British Chinese typically achieve more than the white British population in terms of education (both A Level grades, and university) and salary, despite all the racism supposedly holding them back?

Imagine say if America was built by Chinese slave labour and most of the Africans that were allowed into the country were doctors and engineers and university students

Would it then be right to to say:

“Look how well the Africans do! They come here with nothing, and they’re not even white! What’s wrong with the Chinese? It can’t be racism.”

Racism comes from the hang-ups white people have about people not being white. So some of it will apply to anyone who is not white. That part applies to both blacks and Asians.

But part of the racism comes from the need to excuse the unfair advantages whites have, something that grows out of their ugly, skinhead past of genocide, slavery and Jim Crow.

That part applies more to blacks than to Asians.

That makes blacks a way bigger threat to white self-image than Asians. Therefore whites need to think that there is something profoundly wrong with black people. Model minority, good at math, no threat to white women Asians help to maintain that picture

So what happens ?

Asians experience positive racism. They are seen as good non-white people who are not scary. Blacks experience negative racism because we protest and have tried to improve their lot.

Whites pat Asians on the head for being good while they scold blacks for being bad and then tell blacks ”Why can’t you be more like Asians and just kiss our asses !!!”

I've also noticed that this "Asians are doing well" mantra is never pushed by Asians themselves

Scientific racists use north-eastern Asians to support their own white racism.

They twist facts to try to prove that the Chinese and Japanese do better on IQ tests. Why ? Because that would mean IQ tests do not somehow favour the whites who made them. It would also support their ideas that Snow Makes You Smarter: that the cold weather in Europe and northern Asia evolved higher levels of human intelligence, leaving behind blacks as a backward branch of mankind.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by poohat
Yes, I would very much like you to explain why you think that systematic/institutional racism only seems to hold back black people and doesnt prevent other non-white groups from outperforming the white population, this is why I asked you


I do not think that only white people are privileged at all. I have never once said that. But no institutional racism does not effect white people in the uk as we live in a majority white country.

Let me start with some differences between the black and Chinese populations in the UK.

Black people were originally brought here via the slave trade and therefore were situated in ghettos (poor deprived inner city areas with few opportunities, these areas still exist today). When black immigrants came over as a cheap labour force in the 40s & 50s they were moved in to the ghettos also and then when we no longer needed them as a surplus labour force they were made unemployed. This created the black population as a ghettoised poor and disadvantaged group within the UK. As we know disadvantage is hard to overcome and these problems still affect the black community and so they perform less well. It was also the case that in the times of slavery men were taken away from their families and this has created a strong matriarchal culture in the black community and many black children grow up with absent fathers, this is detrimental for a number of reasons - if you don't know why Google is your friend.

The Chinese however chose to immigrate (not sure when believe it was the 1960s) they largely settled in wealthier, white communities and set up their own businesses (I.e. Chinese restaurants). They have a different culture to the black community, they tend to have more of a focus on education than black and white individuals. Because the children grew up in wealthier areas, with a focus on education, business owner parents they are more advantaged and achieve better.

as you can see there is a lot of intersecting issues notably poverty and culture.

White working class boys also perform poorly in education, however this isn't a race issue but to do with poverty, class and sexism. All these things are very complex I understand it must be hard to grasp if you have never studied it or researched it.
Original post by poohat
You seem nuts. Why are you even in the UK if you hate it so much?


We made the same points as that George fellow about you having no cultural understanding about the complexities that face black people. You flatly ignored us for making the same points and adding our own experiences.

You clearly have no respect bearing in mind you have the opportunity to hear from the horses mouth why we feel disillusioned and upset.

Answer to your question why I'm in the UK: Circumstance. My grandad (an engineer) was asked to come over here FROM JAMAICA, because your roads were ****ed up in the war. The UK enlisted help from overseas because you didn't have enough people to do the job.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by LpoolDel
The Rules Of White Thinking

1) When white people do something good, like inventions ?

They ignore the history books and act like they are the only ones and the main ones at that.

Conclusion ? History does not matter now

2) When whites do something bad, like slavery ?

They act like they are not the only ones and point out other examples in history.

Conclusion ? History matters now

How convienent

I guess white people never went into black Africa and played their own form of monopoly. Carving up the country in ways that it was never meant to be.

Making countries where none existed before, ruling over these places subjugating the people all the while sucking out the natural resources then leaving them in a shambles then they think all it takes is to one day say, go free! And BAM !! Those people are able to catch up.

Who are these phantoms that run amok and then act like the innocent bystander with their hands in the air crying “Hey stop blaming whitey?”

Most whites on TSR suffer in the area of perception, as its limited to what other people they respect have told them as opposed to finding their own knowledge and understanding.

They are like a ref who catches the end of the play and calls the foul based on what they saw.

I on the other hand have seen the play develop and saw the first elbow thrown.


Not all white people think like that :frown:, I feel ashamed to be white sometimes, but I do agree with you in the context of history, it's quite appalling how the history books have been re-written. I think we're gradually getting better at it.
Reply 95
I didn't think it was deemed acceptable to say 'brown', these days.
This thread reminds me of this great scene:rofl:

[video="youtube;JlQhDN1Onho"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlQhDN1Onho[/video]
Reply 97
Original post by LpoolDel
Imagine say if America was built by Chinese slave labour and most of the Africans that were allowed into the country were doctors and engineers and university students
Would it then be right to to say:

“Look how well the Africans do! They come here with nothing, and they’re not even white! What’s wrong with the Chinese? It can’t be racism.”
Actually, its been documented that recent (last 50 years) Africans from highly educated backgrounds initially do well when they immigrate to America as expected, but within 1-2 generations their descendants have declined to the (low) American black mean. This does not happen to other non-white immigrant groups.

[Chinese] have a different culture to the black community,
This is a much more plausible explanation than 'institutional racism' or 'white privilege', yes.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Alfissti
I think brown people are far more racist than White ones.


Why do you say that?
Reply 99
I think human nature draws itself to be racist. We pride ourselves in traits similar to ourselves under the illusion that it makes us ''somebody'' and look down on others who do not share the same trait.

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