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Distribution of wealth

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Original post by chrisawhitmore
Does a Michelin starred chef work harder than a McDonald's cook? Probably not. Given the same ingredients, however, one creates with equal effort an item of far greater value than the other.

All work is not equal, effort does not equate to quality of output.


A McDonald's cook does far more good to the economy and the world than a Michelin starred Chef - who serves only an elite section of the population that we shouldn't concern ourselves with anyway.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Which articles woud those be?

Have they factored in how beneficial to an economy wealthy people relocating elsewhere?

After all, I don't doubt that a lot of teh UKs income inequality figures get massivley skewed by super rich people relocating to London rather than stay at home.


There have been numerous papers, the recent one from the IMF was well reported.

The rich feeling is discussed here, the papers are referenced.
Original post by rich2606
They were given the same opportunities in life and the banker made the most of them. The cleaner didn't. I went to a state school and I know several people who now work in the finance industry, as lawyers, as doctors, as accountants..they didn't inherit their wealth, they worked for it. If you spend your entire life in a minimum wage job in a country full of opportunity such as the UK then no doubt you didn't make the effort to better yourself, to learn new skills and to make yourself valuable to potential employers. No one forced your hypothetical cleaner to have two children, that was their choice, and hell they would have benefited massively from the generosity of the social security system through free education, healthcare and benefits for their children. The tax contributions made on a minimum wage wouldn't come close to paying for all this, so she would have no doubt been subsidized by the people that did make a success of themselves and contribute far more to the system than they take out. Fair? Easily..

Also to your earlier ridiculous point about CEO pay, you don't get paid based on how "hard" you work (as if the number of hours is the only measure of work), you are paid on how much your work is worth to the company. The good CEO being worth 100 times more to the company than a regular employee is quite plausible.


This post simply is untrue. The banker had rich parents and was privately educated (generally).
Original post by Captain Haddock
It may take 'work' in a technical sense but not in a productive, meaningful sense. You buy somebody else's share of the business from them and watch the dividends roll in. It's more like a form of saving than real investment. Absolutely nothing productive has occurred. Besides, most investments are virtually risk free - and why should risk necessarily be rewarded anyway?


Most investments are risk free? There's a risk associated with everything financial. Investments go up as well as down.

Risk is rewarded otherwise nobody would invest.

http://www.businesszone.co.uk/blogs/colin-willman/federation-small-businesses039-fsb-member-services-blog/business-start-ups-why-d

I bet the majority of those that failed had a perfectly acceptable business model and forecast. But it's the way if the world. Most won't make it.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Most investments are risk free? There's a risk associated with everything financial. Investments go up as well as down.

Risk is rewarded otherwise nobody would invest.

http://www.businesszone.co.uk/blogs/colin-willman/federation-small-businesses039-fsb-member-services-blog/business-start-ups-why-d

I bet the majority of those that failed had a perfectly acceptable business model and forecast. But it's the way if the world. Most won't make it.


Investing in start ups is risky sure, that's why they provide large returns on investment. If you have a lot of capital to begin with though you don't need to invest in high risk high return investments.
Original post by DaveSmith99
Investing in start ups is risky sure, that's why they provide large returns on investment. If you have a lot of capital to begin with though you don't need to invest in high risk high return investments.


Even larger investments are risky .

Remember, Organisations like banks invest on behalf of smaller investors.
It is a complete myth that wealthy entrepreneurs take "risks". They don't.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Even larger investments are risky .

Remember, Organisations like banks invest on behalf of smaller investors.


If you diversify your investments and only invest in low risk investments then the risk is minimal. Invest enough money and you only need the smallest return and you've got yourself a nice income.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DaveSmith99
If you diversify your investments and only invest in low risk investments then the risk is minimal. Invest enough money and you only need the smallest return and you've got yourself a nice income.


I fully agree. But you'd need to have a large capital outlay for a nice income on low risk investments.

but to following your logic, investors should only invest in low risk, established companies. That's likely to reduce new technologies. Do you think an investor would've taken a gamble on companies like Apple or Microsoft or the Internet or space travel for ordinary people.

There's some fabulously wealthy people out there worth Billions. I hate to break it to you but they don't have lots of bank accounts with lots of zeros attached to the balance. There assets are worth a lot. assets that are business's that employ people.
I think the biggest issue with wealth inequality is tax evasion.

A progressive taxation system is useless if the majority of high earners essentially "opt-out" as soon as they are wealthy enough to afford a "good" accountant.

This is an issue that must be tackled first and foremost if we ever want a "fairer" redistribution of wealth. There's a reason why London is the city home to the most billionaires in the world.
Original post by MatureStudent36
I fully agree. But you'd need to have a large capital outlay for a nice income on low risk investments.

but to following your logic, investors should only invest in low risk, established companies. That's likely to reduce new technologies. Do you think an investor would've taken a gamble on companies like Apple or Microsoft or the Internet or space travel for ordinary people.

There's some fabulously wealthy people out there worth Billions. I hate to break it to you but they don't have lots of bank accounts with lots of zeros attached to the balance. There assets are worth a lot. assets that are business's that employ people.


I know their money is not just sat there doing nothing, lots of it is circulating around the economy. There is no reason why money would not continue to flow around the economy if wealth was wasn't so extremely highly concentrated.
Original post by DaveSmith99
I know their money is not just sat there doing nothing, lots of it is circulating around the economy. There is no reason why money would not continue to flow around the economy if wealth was wasn't so extremely highly concentrated.


But would it flow in a useful way?

We have a high standard of living, a lot if which is funded by the service sector where a few people can make a lot of money .

We have Billionaires moving to the UK from throughout the world. They being there money and we make money from having them here.

Not really. It whinges about inequality and says it wants a fairer distribution of wealth but offers no solution. Higher taxes wouldn't work, as that would damage business and we would all suffer.

Besides, this country has free education and free healthcare. We have equality of opportunity and we should not pernalise those who made the most out of that opportunity in order to subsidise those who did not. In my eyes, that is an unfair society.
Original post by JamesGibson
A McDonald's cook does far more good to the economy and the world than a Michelin starred Chef - who serves only an elite section of the population that we shouldn't concern ourselves with anyway.

Not really. I know people who I guess you would call working-class who have dined at michelin-starred restaurants. They are food enthusiasts and use some of their disposable income on an excellent food. You can't judge the entire clientele of a restaurant so casually.

But I'm confused, your post seems to advocate people being paid in regard to their contribution to the economy. Is it not therefore fair that the banker, the CEO and the lawyer are paid much more than the cleaner and the cashier, considering their overwhelmingly more important contribution to the economy?
Original post by Davij038
One of the main problems is that much of the wealth is concentrated into a small minority and retain that wealth throughout the generations and thus there offspring have far better chances in life through in particular private school through virtue of their ancestors.

Surely the bigger problem is that most of the country are just too stupid and ignorant how to earn money?

Education is free in this country, libraries are free and various college evening classes are free. What is the excuse? Oh- big brother is on tonight.....
Original post by JamesGibson
For example, in the UK, a CEO can expect to earn 50-150 times as much money as the lowest paid worker in his company. Does the CEO work 100 times harder than the average-salaried employee? Of course not - so why does he deserve that pay scale?

Is the CEO responsible for 50-150 times the number of people? Yes

Original post by JamesGibson
Or, let's take another example. The richest people in our country earn money through investments, which require absolutely no work at all - they simply place bets on the hard work of other people. This nets them insane profits, yet they don't have to work for that money themselves. And, if those investments go wrong as they did in 2008, the government bails them out.

The Government bailed out a couple of banks because it would affect poor people if the banks went under....

Original post by JamesGibson
There are bankers and businessmen living extravagant lifestyles in London while other families are struggling to feed themselves. Inequality and poverty are scandals of the 21st century.

Become a banker or businessman then?
Original post by JamesGibson
Just tell me this guys. Why is it fair a retired banker earns more than cleaner who works 12 hour days on zero hour contracts for her whole life while trying to support her two kids? Why is it fair that the richest merely inherit their wealth while the rest of us work for it?

It's not fair. The working class are the wealth creators and the investors are the wealth holders - it isn't fair and it needs to change.

How much responsibility does the cleaner have? Not a great amount.
How much responsibility does the CEO have? (employees, board, regulators, shareholders)

Understand now?
Original post by DaveSmith99
Income and wealth are completely different things. Besides, we know from academic research that heavily concentrated wealth is bad for business and investment and that the idea that the rich flee as soon as tax goes up is largely just a myth.

Yeh I guess Dyson never really took British jobs to Asia.... :rolleyes:
Original post by JamesGibson
A McDonald's cook does far more good to the economy and the world than a Michelin starred Chef - who serves only an elite section of the population that we shouldn't concern ourselves with anyway.

Could you even justify this if I asked you to?
Original post by Old_Simon
This post simply is untrue. The banker had rich parents and was privately educated (generally).

and you know lots of bankers do you? :rolleyes:

Ever heard of the term "barrow boy"? Go and look it up....

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