Do I have to respect your beliefs?
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Original post by arcturus7
I know they do. Censoring is an infringement, but I don't think presenting evidence in an attempt to make people seriously think about their opinions is disrespectful. Obviously there are respectful ways of wording criticisms, and I would definitely agree that any debate/discussion should be conducted civilly.
But if said person is trying to teach children that women are subservient to men, that evolution is a lie, and that it is morally abhorrent to be homosexual, surely it is your business? I feel it is my duty to prevent people from spreading deliberate and damaging untruths whenever I can. In this day and age, it is inexcusable for people to spout some of the things that they do. If nobody intervenes it will never get any better.
So where do you draw the line? You've already taken an absolute view that we should always respect peoples beliefs. Why is it that some opinions aren't worthy of more respect than others?
You've just admitted that this isn't the case.
But if said person is trying to teach children that women are subservient to men, that evolution is a lie, and that it is morally abhorrent to be homosexual, surely it is your business? I feel it is my duty to prevent people from spreading deliberate and damaging untruths whenever I can. In this day and age, it is inexcusable for people to spout some of the things that they do. If nobody intervenes it will never get any better.
So where do you draw the line? You've already taken an absolute view that we should always respect peoples beliefs. Why is it that some opinions aren't worthy of more respect than others?
You've just admitted that this isn't the case.
I could respect your beliefs but not agree with them. So just coz i tend to respect certain beliefs it does not mean i truly agree with them to the fulest but just respect you and your beliefs. For examplre in my Rs class we get told to respect peoples opinions and beliefs eventhough we may not totally agree with them. Do you get what i mean?
Original post by Jebedee
If Hitler's beliefs were religiously motivated. What would be the difference between respecting that and the religious beliefs we're talking about?
Religion is just providing a shield against criticism. But the core beliefs are no different in some ways.
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Religion is just providing a shield against criticism. But the core beliefs are no different in some ways.
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well in this case you may be right but there is a difference coz Hitler indoctrinated people. Also Hitlers views were not based coz of religion but from himself.
Original post by James222
No your wrong
Its none of your buisiness
Its none of your buisiness
With respect, YOU'RE wrong. Express a hateful or plainly ignorant view in public and I am entitled to pull you up on it. I hate to break it to you, but the fact that you happen to hold a particular view doesn't make it correct, or worthy of respect.
Original post by German123
I could respect your beliefs but not agree with them. So just coz i tend to respect certain beliefs it does not mean i truly agree with them to the fulest but just respect you and your beliefs. For examplre in my Rs class we get told to respect peoples opinions and beliefs eventhough we may not totally agree with them. Do you get what i mean?
No, I don't. As an atheist, I respect the right of a (hypothetical) theist to believe in God and to believe that I am a terrible human being who will burn in hellfire for all eternity after I die. I do not respect the belief itself, because it is cruel, unfounded, judgmental, and intolerant.
Do you believe that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?
Rosie786
they have rights to give their opinions or have beliefs in the same way they can not prevent you from criticizing those beliefs. There is no doubt about that. My pain point is that there is nothing wrong with criticising something from every possible way but not telling them to not hold those beliefs at all like you have already highlighted above.
Totally agree with your sentiments.
Totally agree with your sentiments.
Original post by James222
No your wrong
Its none of your buisiness
Its none of your buisiness
So people aren't allowed to criticize and voice their opinions? Thats a very interesting view on free speech you have there.
Original post by arcturus7
Do you believe that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?
Of course i do why wouldint i.
Original post by German123
well in this case you may be right but there is a difference coz Hitler indoctrinated people. Also Hitlers views were not based coz of religion but from himself.
in·doc·tri·nate
[in-dok-truh-neyt] Show IPAverb (used with object), in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.1.
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
[in-dok-truh-neyt] Show IPAverb (used with object), in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.1.
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
This is religious teaching 101. By your logic, it could be argued that we should not respect religious views or opinions because of the level of indoctrination that is rife in any religious community.
EDIT:
German123
Of course i do why wouldint i.
If you accept that the world is 4.5 Billion Years old, how on Earth can you RESPECT the idea that it is 6,000 years old, as claimed by some creationists? It is not an idea worthy of any respect whatsoever; there is literally nothing in that statement which is respect worthy.
If you accept that the world is 4.5 Billion Years old, how on Earth can you RESPECT the idea that it is 6,000 years old, as claimed by some creationists? It is not an idea worthy of any respect whatsoever; there is literally nothing in that statement which is respect worthy.
(edited 9 years ago)
I think here an important first step is to define what we mean when we say 'respect'. Does respect mean to accept their view without question? Does it mean to accept that they have a view? What exactly are we trying to say?
I'd say try to respect them until your engaged in an actual argument about it. It's not disrespectful arguments that particularly bother me, it's the illogical ones. When I say illogical I mean beating around the bush (usually religious people) or basically just calling the person stupid repetitively (usually atheists). If you want to be technical, atheists usually have the more logical argument though religious people can argue back in a reasonably coherent way (for the record I'm an agnostic theist). Both can be annoyingly stupid though.
Original post by arcturus7
I know they do. Censoring is an infringement, but I don't think presenting evidence in an attempt to make people seriously think about their opinions is disrespectful. Obviously there are respectful ways of wording criticisms, and I would definitely agree that any debate/discussion should be conducted civilly.
But if said person is trying to teach children that women are subservient to men, that evolution is a lie, and that it is morally abhorrent to be homosexual, surely it is your business? I feel it is my duty to prevent people from spreading deliberate and damaging untruths whenever I can. In this day and age, it is inexcusable for people to spout some of the things that they do. If nobody intervenes it will never get any better.
So where do you draw the line? You've already taken an absolute view that we should always respect peoples beliefs. Why is it that some opinions aren't worthy of more respect than others?
You've just admitted that this isn't the case.
But if said person is trying to teach children that women are subservient to men, that evolution is a lie, and that it is morally abhorrent to be homosexual, surely it is your business? I feel it is my duty to prevent people from spreading deliberate and damaging untruths whenever I can. In this day and age, it is inexcusable for people to spout some of the things that they do. If nobody intervenes it will never get any better.
So where do you draw the line? You've already taken an absolute view that we should always respect peoples beliefs. Why is it that some opinions aren't worthy of more respect than others?
You've just admitted that this isn't the case.
If they are not your children then mind your own business
Inexcusable ? You starting to sound like protestant bigots in northern ireland who felt catholic where brain washing children
just because your athiests doesnt give you any moral authority
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Pariah
With respect, YOU'RE wrong. Express a hateful or plainly ignorant view in public and I am entitled to pull you up on it. I hate to break it to you, but the fact that you happen to hold a particular view doesn't make it correct, or worthy of respect.
Feel free to challenge people if its a debate or something
But dont bother people as they go about their private life
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
So people aren't allowed to criticize and voice their opinions? Thats a very interesting view on free speech you have there.
Free Speech applies to your right to talk about stuff not challenge or harass other people.
Go start a youtube channel dont get in peoples faces you dont know
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
I think here an important first step is to define what we mean when we say 'respect'. Does respect mean to accept their view without question? Does it mean to accept that they have a view? What exactly are we trying to say?
By respect I mean the sort of resultant feeling that the opinion has some meaning or worthwhile-ness, intellectual or moral merit, or other such positive quality. It's a very vague term that is hard to define. I can respect an opinion but not agree with it, but I can't agree with an opinion I don't respect. I was kind of relying on the vague, intrinsic understanding we have of the term respect in order to gauge peoples reactions. I probably should have defined it earlier! Thanks for bringing this up.
James222
If they are not your children then mind your own buisiness
Inexcusable ? You starting to sound like protestant bigots in northern ireland who felt catholic where brain washing children
just because your athiests doesnt give you any moral authority
Inexcusable ? You starting to sound like protestant bigots in northern ireland who felt catholic where brain washing children
just because your athiests doesnt give you any moral authority
Really? So if you see someone saying something damaging to an impressionable person (such as a child) you wouldn't intervene? That's tantamount to saying it's fine to turn the other cheek when people lie to other people. I couldn't stand by and watch that, especially if there was nobody to put forward the other side of the story.
EDIT: Yes inexcusable. How can anybody justify people telling other people things which they know are provably false? For example, it is proven that condoms are an effective countermeasure to avoiding AIDS, yet they were condemned until very recently by the catholic church. Why? This attitude caused death and suffering throughout Africa which was totally unnecessary. Education > indoctrination.
I'm not claiming moral authority, I'm claiming logical prowess. In what realm does it make sense to tell people falsities which worsens their quality of life?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by James222
Free Speech applies to your right to talk about stuff not challenge or harass other people.
Go start a youtube channel dont get in peoples faces you dont know
Go start a youtube channel dont get in peoples faces you dont know
So if you can say something to me or to the world at large (ie on the internet) I cannot in turn say something to you if it is criticizing/challenging what you said?
Original post by arcturus7
This is religious teaching 101. By your logic, it could be argued that we should not respect religious views or opinions because of the level of indoctrination that is rife in any religious community.
EDIT:
If you accept that the world is 4.5 Billion Years old, how on Earth can you RESPECT the idea that it is 6,000 years old, as claimed by some creationists? It is not an idea worthy of any respect whatsoever; there is literally nothing in that statement which is respect worthy.
EDIT:
If you accept that the world is 4.5 Billion Years old, how on Earth can you RESPECT the idea that it is 6,000 years old, as claimed by some creationists? It is not an idea worthy of any respect whatsoever; there is literally nothing in that statement which is respect worthy.
This is something you should respect eventhough you dont agree with it full stop
Might as well respect them as very few people actually change their opinions or beliefs even after they've been proven as wrong. Much less hassle just to keep quiet and walk away if you don't like what they're saying
No way, it's generally agreed that one should respect someone's right to hold a belief, but that doesn't extend to respecting the belief itself.
Original post by German123
Yes you should always respect peoples beliefs full stop
So you respect Hitler's beliefs do you?
Original post by German123
This is something you should respect eventhough you dont agree with it full stop
There's nothing to agree with; it's not an opinion. Saying the Earth is 6,000 years old is just wrong. You wouldn't respect my opinion if I said "1+1=3", and rightly so, because it's ludicrous and false. This is the exact same situation. Explain to me why it's worthy of respect, and I may be able to see your point.
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