Original post by goobypls
Lets face it only one of them can progress (most likely ukip), so how would the other two feel about UKIP.
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
Obviously all groups have overlap but strictly speaking in terms of 'manifesto'
BNP: white nationalist, anti-Jewish
EDL: anti-Islam, pro-Israel (opposite of BNP), also not a political party unlike the other two
UKIP: against being in Europe, not technically racist
UKIP is not far right, it is right wing. whereas the Tories are centre-right. While UKIP do have racist members, it is not racist to want less immigration. Therefore we are looking at a BNP V EDL comparison, the difference there is that the EDL is the 'thug' body of the BNP IMO. However they have both been superseded by Britain First recently, which alongside being a protest/thug movement is also a political party.
Note: I do not agree with the EDL or BNP or BF.
Note: I do not agree with the EDL or BNP or BF.
BNP would come up with any reason to condemn UKIP. Although they were right to bang on the door of the chief of police who allowed 1400 white girls to get raped and allowed the crimewave to continue, there's plenty more I disagree with regarding the BNP.
The 'whites only' thing was a reaction to minority only things, such as the Black Police Association. I'd imagine for most people there needs to be a discussion on these issues. It's probably not okay to have that policy though, they should be campaigning against race only things like this. I personally think certain race related things create divides with people. Again, a free discussion would be so much better for this issue.
I haven't kept up to date with things, I guess a lot more of the BNP's attitudes stem from political correctness, and I mean the sort that's just condescending, not just the parts which highlights common decency.
There's obviously the part which is a reaction to changes in community, such as areas being non-white blocks and people feeling they can't relate to them.
I personally think a lot BNP supporters just feel hard done by by the state, a lot of people calling them racist for valid points and this in turn causes resentment and completely derails the issues. It also creates these hate campaigns from both sides, such as the UAF, the EDL, the group of people who were picketing a military procession in Wootton Bassett of which group I don't know, etc. Here it just becomes like a pointless shouting match with no validity.
The EDL initially started as a protest against Islamic extremism and perhaps a response to protests like this:
It is okay to be against this. But then hooligans came in and ruined what should've been a good message. I don't know if Tommy Robinson set it up or whatever. I think it's right for people to protest this sort of terrorism. It makes us feel stronger, many other countries protest things and we've had pro-terrorist protests in this very country. It's very cathartic to send a message to them saying "We don't like you, we reject what you think".
But then, as you very well know, it's become a rabble, people initially calling them racist, then the hooligans came in, then this guy:
Now anything to do with them is a complete cluster****, people going on about my national flag being a racist symbol (which is incredibly condescending to all of the English people, coming from these hooligans and the politically correct thought police who seem to accept something like a national flag can be stained by a few people relatively speaking).
I don't have time for the EDL. There needs to be a new protest group that is anti-terrorist.
UKIP on the other hand, don't seem to have much going on. They aren't racist, it annoys me it keeps needing to be said. I'm not particularly for leaving the EU. I do want to see some sort of federation. The problem is what we have now is pretty bad. The free travel area is wrong, it needs to be between countries with a similar economy, such as the UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark etc. I am for building up poorer countries with investment, like Poland, Romania etc. The common currency, euro, is bad. The problem is I don't see how we can get these changes done, the current layout is pretty terrible. I want to see reform but I don't know how we can get it.
I think the EU's blocks should be broken down, putting northern Europe in one, and southern in another. It's probably going to end up like the American civil war, in which the southern Untied States didn't want to bail out and cover debts in the northern United States.
Perhaps we can vote UKIP to force them to change before we leave. I don't know.
The 'whites only' thing was a reaction to minority only things, such as the Black Police Association. I'd imagine for most people there needs to be a discussion on these issues. It's probably not okay to have that policy though, they should be campaigning against race only things like this. I personally think certain race related things create divides with people. Again, a free discussion would be so much better for this issue.
I haven't kept up to date with things, I guess a lot more of the BNP's attitudes stem from political correctness, and I mean the sort that's just condescending, not just the parts which highlights common decency.
There's obviously the part which is a reaction to changes in community, such as areas being non-white blocks and people feeling they can't relate to them.
I personally think a lot BNP supporters just feel hard done by by the state, a lot of people calling them racist for valid points and this in turn causes resentment and completely derails the issues. It also creates these hate campaigns from both sides, such as the UAF, the EDL, the group of people who were picketing a military procession in Wootton Bassett of which group I don't know, etc. Here it just becomes like a pointless shouting match with no validity.
The EDL initially started as a protest against Islamic extremism and perhaps a response to protests like this:
It is okay to be against this. But then hooligans came in and ruined what should've been a good message. I don't know if Tommy Robinson set it up or whatever. I think it's right for people to protest this sort of terrorism. It makes us feel stronger, many other countries protest things and we've had pro-terrorist protests in this very country. It's very cathartic to send a message to them saying "We don't like you, we reject what you think".
But then, as you very well know, it's become a rabble, people initially calling them racist, then the hooligans came in, then this guy:
Now anything to do with them is a complete cluster****, people going on about my national flag being a racist symbol (which is incredibly condescending to all of the English people, coming from these hooligans and the politically correct thought police who seem to accept something like a national flag can be stained by a few people relatively speaking).
I don't have time for the EDL. There needs to be a new protest group that is anti-terrorist.
UKIP on the other hand, don't seem to have much going on. They aren't racist, it annoys me it keeps needing to be said. I'm not particularly for leaving the EU. I do want to see some sort of federation. The problem is what we have now is pretty bad. The free travel area is wrong, it needs to be between countries with a similar economy, such as the UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark etc. I am for building up poorer countries with investment, like Poland, Romania etc. The common currency, euro, is bad. The problem is I don't see how we can get these changes done, the current layout is pretty terrible. I want to see reform but I don't know how we can get it.
I think the EU's blocks should be broken down, putting northern Europe in one, and southern in another. It's probably going to end up like the American civil war, in which the southern Untied States didn't want to bail out and cover debts in the northern United States.
Perhaps we can vote UKIP to force them to change before we leave. I don't know.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by goobypls
Lets face it only one of them can progress (most likely ukip), so how would the other two feel about UKIP.
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
I thought the EDL is now dead after Tommy Robinson quit.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by goobypls
Lets face it only one of them can progress (most likely ukip), so how would the other two feel about UKIP.
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
So what's the point of the like of BNP and the EDL being around because UKIP will always be more popular.
Would we ever see tensions between the three ?
The UKIP and the BNP don't have the same views although there is overlap.
The UKIP believe in free market capitalism, getting rid of mass bureaucracy, halting mass immigration and leaving the EU.
The BNP believe in recognising that these islands are the home of a native people, the white British people and that they should be respected as a homeland to these people and that other people, mainly those who immigrated here since 1950 are visitors or guests. They want to preserve the native people of these islands and don't want them to have mixed race children. They are pro traditional values like the church and heterosexuality. They have a trade union type streak to themselves also. They are against political correctness and needless to say mass immigration and would like mass repatriation programmes for certain types of people including illegal immigrants and many people granted citizenship under New Labour.
Posted from TSR Mobile
BNP would be the first party to put the interests of native Brits first.UKIP are what the Torah party claim to be, but those at the top of Tory party are Zionists. The Labour and Tory party are rotten with Jewish Zionism which is why you never get real change.It's the same in other European governments the worst being France.
BNP are a party based on racial ideology that want Britain to be a white Christian society. They are an organised political party but have struggled to really make headway because they aren't well run, fall out amongst themselves and they find it hard to attract support from the electoral mainstream because of their thug image and also because fundamentally most British people find anything with a hint of Nazism distasteful and despite the BNP trying to use imagery of Churchill and Britain in the Second World War, their ideology (white society, statist, anti-homosexual, anti-liberal) is more in common with Nazism.
EDL are just a group based around hostility to Islam mostly, they aren't an organised political party, they are just a vehicle for predominantly young males that dislike Muslims.
UKIP has never been a party based around race ideology or anything like that, the party's ideology is based around hostility to the EU, it's been knocking at the fringes for a while, more recently they have switched their main thrust to immigration because it raises their profile and allows them to target more voters than just an anti-EU campaign: for several elections before they have fought on a ticket of complaining about things like European social legislation and the Working Time Directive and lobbied to remove those rules from applying to British businesses but most of the electorate is far less interested in the Europe issue than the Westminster elite is. So the thrust of their anti-EU campaign now is focused around the point of free movement of labour in the single market, hence their argument all the Europeans can take your jobs.
This has had the advantage for UKIP of allowing them more publicity and a route in to other parts of the electorate than their previously very Tory style wealthy southerners, the downside is the immigration issue attracts nasty people like moths to a flame, hence UKIP have had a series of embarrassments from individuals getting involved wanting to stand as councillors etc that have made unpleasant racial based comments: these people have just come to UKIP as they see them as a way of getting electoral success for an anti-immigation movement when really they want to go further.
You can see actually on the small sample of TSR demographic, the two types of UKIP supporters, there are some that seem to be active posters on political issues that are more the traditional UKIP demographic (ie probably if the Conservative party was Eurosceptic, they would be in that) and then there are some of the ones that are obsessed about race based issues and make multiple threads designed to stir things up against Muslims/Jews/blacks that also pledge their support for UKIP in here. I expect their presence embarrasses the more traditional UKIP supporters as the vocality of these people is what turns mainstream people off UKIP and limits their electability.
I think the problem Farage has is a problem Labour had in the 1980s when the Labour party was seen as a vehicle for some extreme left wing Trotskyists that tried to use trade unions and the Labour party as a vehicle for their own purposes, it just put people off and the Labour party really struggled to attract moderate voters as it was associated with the loony left. When Blair came in, for all that he got criticised "the Labour party isn't the Labour party, he's a closet Tory", all of those extremists disappeared from Labour and it made the party a lot more electable. The issue Farage has now, to try and break UKIP in to the Westminster scene, he will need to start to attract other parts of the electorate that associate UKIP with racist nutters. Of course this image is pushed by parts of the media as well, but the presence of the race-obsessers in the UKIP movement makes their image toxic.
EDL are just a group based around hostility to Islam mostly, they aren't an organised political party, they are just a vehicle for predominantly young males that dislike Muslims.
UKIP has never been a party based around race ideology or anything like that, the party's ideology is based around hostility to the EU, it's been knocking at the fringes for a while, more recently they have switched their main thrust to immigration because it raises their profile and allows them to target more voters than just an anti-EU campaign: for several elections before they have fought on a ticket of complaining about things like European social legislation and the Working Time Directive and lobbied to remove those rules from applying to British businesses but most of the electorate is far less interested in the Europe issue than the Westminster elite is. So the thrust of their anti-EU campaign now is focused around the point of free movement of labour in the single market, hence their argument all the Europeans can take your jobs.
This has had the advantage for UKIP of allowing them more publicity and a route in to other parts of the electorate than their previously very Tory style wealthy southerners, the downside is the immigration issue attracts nasty people like moths to a flame, hence UKIP have had a series of embarrassments from individuals getting involved wanting to stand as councillors etc that have made unpleasant racial based comments: these people have just come to UKIP as they see them as a way of getting electoral success for an anti-immigation movement when really they want to go further.
You can see actually on the small sample of TSR demographic, the two types of UKIP supporters, there are some that seem to be active posters on political issues that are more the traditional UKIP demographic (ie probably if the Conservative party was Eurosceptic, they would be in that) and then there are some of the ones that are obsessed about race based issues and make multiple threads designed to stir things up against Muslims/Jews/blacks that also pledge their support for UKIP in here. I expect their presence embarrasses the more traditional UKIP supporters as the vocality of these people is what turns mainstream people off UKIP and limits their electability.
I think the problem Farage has is a problem Labour had in the 1980s when the Labour party was seen as a vehicle for some extreme left wing Trotskyists that tried to use trade unions and the Labour party as a vehicle for their own purposes, it just put people off and the Labour party really struggled to attract moderate voters as it was associated with the loony left. When Blair came in, for all that he got criticised "the Labour party isn't the Labour party, he's a closet Tory", all of those extremists disappeared from Labour and it made the party a lot more electable. The issue Farage has now, to try and break UKIP in to the Westminster scene, he will need to start to attract other parts of the electorate that associate UKIP with racist nutters. Of course this image is pushed by parts of the media as well, but the presence of the race-obsessers in the UKIP movement makes their image toxic.
Original post by Refuse_censor
The UKIP and the BNP don't have the same views although there is overlap.
The UKIP believe in free market capitalism, getting rid of mass bureaucracy, halting mass immigration and leaving the EU.
The BNP believe in recognising that these islands are the home of a native people, the white British people and that they should be respected as a homeland to these people and that other people, mainly those who immigrated here since 1950 are visitors or guests. They want to preserve the native people of these islands and don't want them to have mixed race children. They are pro traditional values like the church and heterosexuality. They have a trade union type streak to themselves also. They are against political correctness and needless to say mass immigration and would like mass repatriation programmes for certain types of people including illegal immigrants and many people granted citizenship under New Labour.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The UKIP believe in free market capitalism, getting rid of mass bureaucracy, halting mass immigration and leaving the EU.
The BNP believe in recognising that these islands are the home of a native people, the white British people and that they should be respected as a homeland to these people and that other people, mainly those who immigrated here since 1950 are visitors or guests. They want to preserve the native people of these islands and don't want them to have mixed race children. They are pro traditional values like the church and heterosexuality. They have a trade union type streak to themselves also. They are against political correctness and needless to say mass immigration and would like mass repatriation programmes for certain types of people including illegal immigrants and many people granted citizenship under New Labour.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I bet black South Africans feel the same. I wonder if they go on marches.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Didn't that recent MP to who moved from Tory to UKIP say something about the elite in the Tory party not representing the interests of the people?Tory party only lie on immigration, if they wanted they surely have the power to stop it. It's as if there's a foreign power dictating Europe's immigration policies oh boy who could it be?
BNP is a political party who wants to take the country backwards to a white Christian society. They're a racist party who want most immigration stopped, and immigrants deported (even ones who are legal citizens). However, they have said that they should have more immigrants from parts of Europe because those immigrants are still white, while immigrants from non white countries would be completely banned from moving here. Their party and policies are based around race.
UKIP as a party isn't racist but does attract some racists. It tends to attract some BNP supporters who see it as a compromise which is more electable than the BNP. But most BNP supporters now supporting UKIP probably aren't totally happy with UKIP - they want the party to go further towards genuinely being racist.
UKIP as a party isn't racist but does attract some racists. It tends to attract some BNP supporters who see it as a compromise which is more electable than the BNP. But most BNP supporters now supporting UKIP probably aren't totally happy with UKIP - they want the party to go further towards genuinely being racist.
Original post by Refuse_censor
The UKIP and the BNP don't have the same views although there is overlap.
The UKIP believe in free market capitalism, getting rid of mass bureaucracy, halting mass immigration and leaving the EU.
The BNP believe in recognising that these islands are the home of a native people, the white British people and that they should be respected as a homeland to these people and that other people, mainly those who immigrated here since 1950 are visitors or guests. They want to preserve the native people of these islands and don't want them to have mixed race children. They are pro traditional values like the church and heterosexuality. They have a trade union type streak to themselves also. They are against political correctness and needless to say mass immigration and would like mass repatriation programmes for certain types of people including illegal immigrants and many people granted citizenship under New Labour.
The UKIP believe in free market capitalism, getting rid of mass bureaucracy, halting mass immigration and leaving the EU.
The BNP believe in recognising that these islands are the home of a native people, the white British people and that they should be respected as a homeland to these people and that other people, mainly those who immigrated here since 1950 are visitors or guests. They want to preserve the native people of these islands and don't want them to have mixed race children. They are pro traditional values like the church and heterosexuality. They have a trade union type streak to themselves also. They are against political correctness and needless to say mass immigration and would like mass repatriation programmes for certain types of people including illegal immigrants and many people granted citizenship under New Labour.
Don't **** anyone who isn't white then.
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