Do you believe in the death penalty?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Yea. That sounds reasonable 
In the American system its not the act of killing which is so expensive either, its the process of getting to that last act.
In the American system its not the act of killing which is so expensive either, its the process of getting to that last act.
I know it's very reasonable considering that they tortured and brutally killed an innocent citizen. I think I'm being too kind though.
Also, it's expensive short term but in the long run it's less expensive isn't it? I would think that keeping someone alive for a couple of decades is more expensive than killing them.
Original post by Da Di Doo
I know it's very reasonable considering that they tortured and brutally killed an innocent citizen. I think I'm being too kind though.
Yea...no. Starving them is torture itself. So what makes you who is advocating that (and presumably would be all for actually doing that) any better than the person you are punishing for that exact thing?
Also, it's expensive short term but in the long run it's less expensive isn't it? I would think that keeping someone alive for a couple of decades is more expensive than killing them.
Why don't you actually read the link which you quoted and it might tell you. There are plenty of studies on this and they all have the same conclusion.
I live in a country where capital punishment still exists for crimes like murder and /gasp/ drug smuggling. Yes, crime rates are extremely low, such that I feel perfectly safe wandering around the dodgiest of places in the country in the middle of the night, but I do feel that my country's overdoing the death penalty especially with regards to crimes like drug smuggling. (If anyone is interested, do read up about the case of Van Tuong Ngyuen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Tuong_Nguyen)
While our country has revised the law recently, such that capital punishment is meted out on a case by case basis based on the mental state of the perpetrator, it still doesn't spare most people. I do feel that this revised system is better just than what we had previously, but I suppose our legislation can afford to be a little more lax with this leeway. Then again, there'd be a debate on the extent to which a crime is serious enough for a criminal to be punished under the death penalty, but that's for the law students to decide.
While our country has revised the law recently, such that capital punishment is meted out on a case by case basis based on the mental state of the perpetrator, it still doesn't spare most people. I do feel that this revised system is better just than what we had previously, but I suppose our legislation can afford to be a little more lax with this leeway. Then again, there'd be a debate on the extent to which a crime is serious enough for a criminal to be punished under the death penalty, but that's for the law students to decide.
In theory, I do believe that there are some crimes that you should pay for with your life. Also, it rids society of the most dangerous criminals.
However, I don't think it could work in practice because there is also the chance of a miscarriage of justice , and you cannot give the death penalty to terrorists because often it is what they want and they will be seen as heroes, encouraging further terrorism. And you couldn't let terrorists live whilst killing other criminals.
However, I don't think it could work in practice because there is also the chance of a miscarriage of justice , and you cannot give the death penalty to terrorists because often it is what they want and they will be seen as heroes, encouraging further terrorism. And you couldn't let terrorists live whilst killing other criminals.
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
And you're supposed to be a law student? Christ...
As various people before me have pointed out, there's a reason why death penalties cost more than prison sentences. Did you not read the Guardian article in the post you're quoting?
As various people before me have pointed out, there's a reason why death penalties cost more than prison sentences. Did you not read the Guardian article in the post you're quoting?
I'm not a Law student yet.
Original post by Da Di Doo
I'm not a Law student yet.
Good luck
Original post by NYU2012
Police co-erced confession are not unknown.
Then you don't believe in a right to life. Either there is a right to life, and it must necessarily be respected, or there is no right to life and no one has any such right. Have your pick.
People who commit crimes that on death row would, in the alternative, face life imprisonment.
Then you don't believe in a right to life. Either there is a right to life, and it must necessarily be respected, or there is no right to life and no one has any such right. Have your pick.
People who commit crimes that on death row would, in the alternative, face life imprisonment.
You could keep coming with lists but they will not change my argument.
for your points
1. Then the person will be 'forced' into imprisonment which is much worse then death especially if you haven't committed the crime
2. No I don't believe they are entitled to life. Explain the same for the people they murdered or raped. Did the convict consider that they had a right to life no so why should they.
3. Life imprisonment is much much worse for them, they may go insane, have poor health, get beaten up by other convicts, lose contact with their families, friends, spend the rest of their lives behind bars being stared at and being unfairly treated by authority (even though they don't deserve fair treatment it is still wrong).
Original post by Da Di Doo
We don't need to copy America.
We can just put them on a room and let them starve to death.
We can just put them on a room and let them starve to death.
Yes this it should be done straight away not waiting for 25 years. Plus the study was done on 13 people no wonder it cost them so much.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Yea. That sounds reasonable
In the American system its not the act of killing which is so expensive either, its the process of getting to that last act.
In the American system its not the act of killing which is so expensive either, its the process of getting to that last act.
Yeah this.
Original post by kingdoo
You could keep coming with lists but they will not change my argument.
I am still struggling to understand what exactly your argument is....
for your points
1. Then the person will be 'forced' into imprisonment which is much worse then death especially if you haven't committed the crime
2. No I don't believe they are entitled to life. Explain the same for the people they murdered or raped. Did the convict consider that they had a right to life no so why should they.
3. Life imprisonment is much much worse for them, they may go insane, have poor health, get beaten up by other convicts, lose contact with their families, friends, spend the rest of their lives behind bars being stared at and being unfairly treated by authority (even though they don't deserve fair treatment it is still wrong).
1. Then the person will be 'forced' into imprisonment which is much worse then death especially if you haven't committed the crime
2. No I don't believe they are entitled to life. Explain the same for the people they murdered or raped. Did the convict consider that they had a right to life no so why should they.
3. Life imprisonment is much much worse for them, they may go insane, have poor health, get beaten up by other convicts, lose contact with their families, friends, spend the rest of their lives behind bars being stared at and being unfairly treated by authority (even though they don't deserve fair treatment it is still wrong).
So...you believe the death penalty is some kind of mercy?
It's rather ironic that you think people who commit such horrible crimes should be put to death (because of the severity of their actions) but then turn around and say it would be a more sever punishment if they were kept alive and imprisoned for life...Tell me what then constitutes a life sentence?As for your points:
1 - Life in prison is far better for someone who is wrongly convicted as then at least they have the chance of being released and reparations being given to them rather than BEING KILLED.
2 - So people don't have a right to life? Then why are you punishing them for killing in the first place? What gives another person their 'entitlement' to live?
3 - See my above comment on the irony of calling life in prison 'worse' than the death penalty but advocating for the death penalty anyway for the severest of crimes.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by kingdoo
Yes this it should be done straight away not waiting for 25 years. Plus the study was done on 13 people no wonder it cost them so much.
Original post by kingdoo
Yeah this.
You just affirmed to wholly opposed posts....
If you aren't putting any precautions in place I assume you have no problems with killing innocents? Or you have some more effective and less costly way of safeguarding against innocents being put to death?
Original post by Arithmeticae
it solves nothing, is based on the idea for revenge and it's pretty hard to rehabilitate someone once they're dead
capital punishment requires us to
-be unprincipled
- to violate basic moral conviction
-to act hypocritically
-to indulge vice
-to deter empathy with the condemned
-to waste money
- to likely cause more harm than well-being
-and to negligibly if at all decrease crime rate
against it in all cases
capital punishment requires us to
-be unprincipled
- to violate basic moral conviction
-to act hypocritically
-to indulge vice
-to deter empathy with the condemned
-to waste money
- to likely cause more harm than well-being
-and to negligibly if at all decrease crime rate
against it in all cases
it solves nothing, apart from ridding the world of a murderer / rapist
it is based on the idea for revenge, except it is not always the case sometimes it is based on the idea of safety
it's pretty hard to rehabilitate someone in the first place hence the fact most criminals are repeat offenders, as are drug addicts / alcohol addicts etc
now let me deal with these things capital punishment requires us to be,
unprincipled - how is maintaining law and order unprincipled? this is silly
moral conviction - how is preserving the rights of one who has commited a crime 'moral conviction'?
hypocrisy - not at all, one of them kills murderers the other kills innocents
indulge vice - what? this presumes capital punishment is wrong and then condemns it for being wrong.
condemned - yes for commiting a crime
waste money - not really, it costs way more to feed someone for 20+ years than to hang them.
harm - not at all most capital punishment is done by skilled executioners, it is far more morally reprehensible and retributive to want a criminal to suffer locked away for 20 years.
maybe - although you ignore the fact one of them is gone for certain!
Original post by SHallowvale
very rare in civilised countries.
Original post by NYU2012
This objection is silly.
It's clearly not necessary to kill someone to maintain law and order.
You've answered that question in your own response there. But they have rights.
This response is weak, at best.
A criminal murderer may have killed someone that a was child killer but had evaded state conviction. The law doesn't distinguish between the morality of the killing made; the victim could have been a terrible person and in no way 'innocent'.
It's generally considered that extremely harsh revenge, to the point of sadism, is vice.
Factually incorrect. Do more research.
How are you able to objectively determine the subjective experiences of these people? Who's to say they don't prefer life imprisonment to the death penalty? Particularly if they were wrongly convicted?
It's clearly not necessary to kill someone to maintain law and order.
You've answered that question in your own response there. But they have rights.
This response is weak, at best.
A criminal murderer may have killed someone that a was child killer but had evaded state conviction. The law doesn't distinguish between the morality of the killing made; the victim could have been a terrible person and in no way 'innocent'.
It's generally considered that extremely harsh revenge, to the point of sadism, is vice.
Factually incorrect. Do more research.
How are you able to objectively determine the subjective experiences of these people? Who's to say they don't prefer life imprisonment to the death penalty? Particularly if they were wrongly convicted?
so basically everything I said is wrong because you disagree instead of any reasonable response, for example 'factually incorrect. do more research' I have it's only in the American system that this is so expensive.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
I am still struggling to understand what exactly your argument is....
So...you believe the death penalty is some kind of mercy? It's rather ironic that you think people who commit such horrible crimes should be put to death (because of the severity of their actions) but then turn around and say it would be a more sever punishment if they were kept alive and imprisoned for life...Tell me what then constitutes a life sentence?
As for your points:
1 - Life in prison is far better for someone who is wrongly convicted as then at least they have the chance of being released and reparations being given to them rather than BEING KILLED.
2 - So people don't have a right to life? Then why are you punishing them for killing in the first place? What gives another person their 'entitlement' to live?
3 - See my above comment on the irony of calling life in prison 'worse' than the death penalty but advocating for the death penalty anyway for the severest of crimes.
So...you believe the death penalty is some kind of mercy?
It's rather ironic that you think people who commit such horrible crimes should be put to death (because of the severity of their actions) but then turn around and say it would be a more sever punishment if they were kept alive and imprisoned for life...Tell me what then constitutes a life sentence?As for your points:
1 - Life in prison is far better for someone who is wrongly convicted as then at least they have the chance of being released and reparations being given to them rather than BEING KILLED.
2 - So people don't have a right to life? Then why are you punishing them for killing in the first place? What gives another person their 'entitlement' to live?
3 - See my above comment on the irony of calling life in prison 'worse' than the death penalty but advocating for the death penalty anyway for the severest of crimes.
1. If they are sentenced to life imprisonment and they are wrongly accused and nothing is found out until they die in prison then their whole life was crap from the moment they entered prison to the day they die. However, It has to be hard evidence that shows support that they committed the crime so no I would not support it if there was not enough hard evidence.
2. If people kill someone else then they do not feel that anyone has the right to life since they have killed taking someones life. Just curious if someone killed every single person in your main family network, Parents, siblings any other close people maybe friends or close grandparents what would you be saying then. "Hello murderer I am so happy you are alive in prison and could eventually be released through getting a parole in the future" "Oh I am sure you will never kill again because you have been rehabilitated." No you would be "I want you to die painfully for what you did to my family you little S**t"
3. Prison has some of the worst conditions and it is inhumane to make them live their.
Original post by kingdoo
1. If they are sentenced to life imprisonment and they are wrongly accused and nothing is found out until they die in prison then their whole life was crap from the moment they entered prison to the day they die. However, It has to be hard evidence that shows support that they committed the crime so no I would not support it if there was not enough hard evidence.
So we should instead kill them instantly without the chance of redemption? Removing any possibility of the wrong done to them to be righted? 'm sorry but that does not weigh out. Really all you seem to be saying is that prison conditions should be improved.
2. If people kill someone else then they do not feel that anyone has the right to life since they have killed taking someones life. Just curious if someone killed every single person in your main family network, Parents, siblings any other close people maybe friends or close grandparents what would you be saying then. "Hello murderer I am so happy you are alive in prison and could eventually be released through getting a parole in the future" "Oh I am sure you will never kill again because you have been rehabilitated." No you would be "I want you to die painfully for what you did to my family you little S**t"
Please don't assume what I would or would not be like in such an event. Would I be upset? Obviously. Angry? Of course. However you would not see me advocating their death. No. And even if I did, that would not make me right then. What makes me right in that case but wrong now? If anything my position at that point should be less credible because I would seem to be overrun with emotion rather than any semblance of rationality.
3. Prison has some of the worst conditions and it is inhumane to make them live their.
Again, this just sounds like you are saying we should make prison conditions better.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DErasmus
so basically everything I said is wrong because you disagree instead of any reasonable response, for example 'factually incorrect. do more research' I have it's only in the American system that this is so expensive.
I'm interested in what kind of system you would propose that would cut out all the expensive procedures, etc that are present in the US system.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
So we should instead kill them instantly without the chance of redemption? I'm sorry but that does not weigh out. Really all you seem to be saying is that prison conditions should be improved.
Please don't assume what I would or would not be like in such an event. Would I be upset? Obviously. Angry? Of course. However you would not see me advocating their death. No. And even if I did, that would not make me right then. What makes me right in that case but wrong now? If anything my position at that point should be less credible because I would seem to be overrun with emotion rather than any semblance of rationality.
Again, this just sounds like you are saying we should make prison conditions better.
Please don't assume what I would or would not be like in such an event. Would I be upset? Obviously. Angry? Of course. However you would not see me advocating their death. No. And even if I did, that would not make me right then. What makes me right in that case but wrong now? If anything my position at that point should be less credible because I would seem to be overrun with emotion rather than any semblance of rationality.
Again, this just sounds like you are saying we should make prison conditions better.
You are saying someone who kills people is going to change? I am sorry but I am never going to believe that. As for prison conditions for people who commit smaller crimes I do believe that the conditions needs to be improved. But for people committing terrible crimes don't deserve better conditions. But then they are going to live in terrible conditions for the rest of their lives which I deem is unjust so it is much better to kill them.
Well if that is how you would react I now worship that you can find love for all people no matter what crimes they have committed.
Original post by kingdoo
You are saying someone who kills people is going to change? I am sorry but I am never going to believe that. As for prison conditions for people who commit smaller crimes I do believe that the conditions needs to be improved. But for people committing terrible crimes don't deserve better conditions. But then they are going to live in terrible conditions for the rest of their lives which I deem is unjust so it is much better to kill them.
Well if that is how you would react I now worship that you can find love for all people no matter what crimes they have committed.
Well if that is how you would react I now worship that you can find love for all people no matter what crimes they have committed.
I didn't say they are going to change. I said it may be possible for them to change. Not everyone will, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be given the chance. If you are never going to believe something even if there is evidence for it then there is no use talking to you because you are irrational.
In regards to prison conditions you believe that it is unjust for people who commit serious crimes to be subject to bad prison conditions but that they don't deserve better ones? That sounds oddly like you believe they ought be tortured...again, irony. And again killing them cannot be the correct answer as there is such a thing a miscarriages of justice and then you have killed innocent people.
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
I didn't say they are going to change. I said it may be possible for them to change. Not everyone will, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be given the chance. If you are never going to believe something even if there is evidence for it then there is no use talking to you because you are irrational.
In regards to prison conditions you believe that it is unjust for people who commit serious crimes to be subject to bad prison conditions but that they don't deserve better ones? That sounds oddly like you believe they ought be tortured...again, irony. And again killing them cannot be the correct answer as there is such a thing a miscarriages of justice and then you have killed innocent people.
In regards to prison conditions you believe that it is unjust for people who commit serious crimes to be subject to bad prison conditions but that they don't deserve better ones? That sounds oddly like you believe they ought be tortured...again, irony. And again killing them cannot be the correct answer as there is such a thing a miscarriages of justice and then you have killed innocent people.
No, I believe that the death penalty needs be quick and simple so they don't have to suffer in prison. Because from what you are saying it is fine for them to be locked in a cage being stripped away from any rights for the rest of their life. A lot of prisoners try to commit suicide because they hate the conditions. I don't believe in torture which is exactly what prison is. It is a locked system which is run by authority which inevitably tortures the victims through interrogation and assault.
Quick Reply
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
