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This Pakistani man is pride of Pakistan!

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Original post by Maliha Ahmed
lol haha. Yeah I agree. But this man is one brave one.


You'd have to be! Though I don't want to heap too much praise on this guy until I know exactly what he stands for. Does he support or oppose the repeal of the Pakistani blasphemy law, for example?
Reply 61
There are good guys and girls everywhere. The fact that you have to point them out and wave frantically is indicative of the bigger issue.
Original post by Meenglishnogood
i think shes already taking on the bigger things to deal with than jsut drones, she is trying to reform attitudes in pakistani society, and indeed the entire islamic world toward women. she essentially challenged islamic traditions of what women should be and do and took a bullet in the face form islamists.
although these matters like most things are not black and white, she still wears the hijab, but it seems purely culturally, as it doesnt even cover her hair, a bit of a mixed up mind perhaps.

id suppose living in an islamic country like pakistan there will always be opportunities to confront social injustice, the question is bing brave enough to do so


Its not to do with Islamic, rather cultural traditions. Islam encourages the education of both men and women. Its the specific areas of Pakistan that does not promote this idea. Of course, a muslim girl can wear her hijab and get an education, just like Malala. The way she wears the scarf is more of a cultural one but it does have religious purpose to it as well.
Original post by felamaslen
You'd have to be! Though I don't want to heap too much praise on this guy until I know exactly what he stands for. Does he support or oppose the repeal of the Pakistani blasphemy law, for example?


I have no idea about that question. But in a country like Pakistan where people are divided due to religious beliefs, this man disregard one's religious beliefs and help them out providing free facilities e.g. education, medical care and homes etc.
Original post by Maliha Ahmed
Its not to do with Islamic, rather cultural traditions. Islam encourages the education of both men and women. Its the specific areas of Pakistan that does not promote this idea. Of course, a muslim girl can wear her hijab and get an education, just like Malala. The way she wears the scarf is more of a cultural one but it does have religious purpose to it as well.


the way malala wears it has no religious significance at all becuase it barely covers anything , but i agree that has become partly cultural to the region

islam makes no sanction for girls to take education, the quran actually states women should stay indoors in their homes, save for 'essential journeys' and even then only with a chaperone. this would make going to university etc almost impossible if being fully devout
Original post by Meenglishnogood
the way malala wears it has no religious significance at all becuase it barely covers anything , but i agree that has become partly cultural to the region

islam makes no sanction for girls to take education, the quran actually states women should stay indoors in their homes, save for 'essential journeys' and even then only with a chaperone. this would make going to university etc almost impossible if being fully devout


The way she wears a scarf is cultural but in Pakistan, it is also seen as respectful or to some degree religious.

Islam and education goes well together. The first word of the Quran that was revealed to the Prophet(saw) was 'Iqrah' meaning 'Read'. Seek Knowledge, educate yourselves.

The Prophet(saw) of Islam said:
- 'Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim'
- 'He who has a slave girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her will get a double reward....' (This Hadith continues)

Hazrat Ayisha(ra) has narrated more than 2 thousand Ahadiths.

Muslims (mostly Talibans) who disregard women's right to education are influenced by their culture, not Islam.
Original post by Maliha Ahmed
The way she wears a scarf is cultural but in Pakistan, it is also seen as respectful or to some degree religious.

Islam and education goes well together. The first word of the Quran that was revealed to the Prophet(saw) was 'Iqrah' meaning 'Read'. Seek Knowledge, educate yourselves.

The Prophet(saw) of Islam said:
- 'Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim'
- 'He who has a slave girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her will get a double reward....' (This Hadith continues)

Hazrat Ayisha(ra) has narrated more than 2 thousand Ahadiths.

Muslims (mostly Talibans) who disregard women's right to education are influenced by their culture, not Islam.

talibans ( both in pak and afganistan) advocated sharia law with islamic rulings. schools with girls is not an islamic tradition it has no traceable precedent to mohammeds times. it is in fact a non-islamic tradition. there is a reason why Malala is touring the non-islamic world now, and not visiting places like saudi arabia or qatar.

amd the first word 'read' in the quran is the commandment to read the quran, it is not a direction for girls to become educated ( there is no such mention of this in the quran). in fact mohammed having had the quran sent to him in a dream , never bothered to learn to read.
so then islam could not in any way have promoted firther education

the traditions of universites where girls can go to learn, gain professions equal to men, and indeed sit next to males in the classroom being taught by males and females, is nothing to do with islam. its entirely non-islamic tradition, both in west and East
Original post by Meenglishnogood
talibans ( both in pak and afganistan) advocated sharia law with islamic rulings. schools with girls is not an islamic tradition it has no traceable precedent to mohammeds times. it is in fact a non-islamic tradition. there is a reason why Malala is touring the non-islamic world now, and not visiting places like saudi arabia or qatar.

amd the first word 'read' in the quran is the commandment to read the quran, it is not a direction for girls to become educated ( there is no such mention of this in the quran). in fact mohammed having had the quran sent to him in a dream , never bothered to learn to read.
so then islam could not in any way have promoted firther education

the traditions of universites where girls can go to learn, gain professions equal to men, and indeed sit next to males in the classroom being taught by males and females, is nothing to do with islam. its entirely non-islamic tradition, both in west and East


Oh my! Such misunderstanding!

'Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim' (Prophet(saw))

Are you aware of Dr Abdus Salam?

The reason why Malala stood up against these Talibans is because she's aware that they were wrong and bad-naming Islam.

Are you aware of Fatima-al-Fihri who in 859 AD helped found the university of Karueein in Fez, Morroco? According to Guinness World book record, this university is the oldest existing university of the world.

'If a daughter is born to a person and he brings her up, gives her good education and trains her in the art of life, I shall myself stand between him and hell-fire'- Holy Prophet(saw)
Original post by Maliha Ahmed
Oh my! Such misunderstanding!

'Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim' (Prophet(saw))

Are you aware of Dr Abdus Salam?

The reason why Malala stood up against these Talibans is because she's aware that they were wrong and bad-naming Islam.

Are you aware of Fatima-al-Fihri who in 859 AD helped found the university of Karueein in Fez, Morroco? According to Guinness World book record, this university is the oldest existing university of the world.

'If a daughter is born to a person and he brings her up, gives her good education and trains her in the art of life, I shall myself stand between him and hell-fire'- Holy Prophet(saw)


Al - Karouine was not founded as a university, but as a mosque and madrassa, where children were taken to be made to memorise the quran and be taught islamic doctrines. i was talking about genuine centres of education and higher learning ( ie not involving religious doctrine) besies which the assertion is false anyway, even if an actual university, Al - Karouine in 9th century wouldnt have been the oldest, the greeks had centres of learning and the oldest university ever recorded was in India, centuries before islam.

again your making assumptions of mohammeds and indeed 8th century islamic defnitions, ( your above quote is not from the quran btw) reference to 'education' does not mean the same thing we do today. education for girls in mohammeds time was in the main learning to cook, clean, looking after children and being a subordinate wife. you would need to aks yourself why all and any of the islamic worlds most noted writers and scientists have all been men. All caliphs and religious leaders have been men for over 1000 years, women were not allowed to rise to the top of political offices. the fact pakistan had a female prime minister was more to do with 30 years of western democracy than 1200 previous years of islamic tradition
Original post by Meenglishnogood
Al - Karouine was not founded as a university, but as a mosque and madrassa, where children were taken to be made to memorise the quran and be taught islamic doctrines. i was talking about genuine centres of education and higher learning ( ie not involving religious doctrine) besies which the assertion is false anyway, even if an actual university, Al - Karouine in 9th century wouldnt have been the oldest, the greeks had centres of learning and the oldest university ever recorded was in India, centuries before islam.

again your making assumptions of mohammeds and indeed 8th century islamic defnitions, ( your above quote is not from the quran btw) reference to 'education' does not mean the same thing we do today. education for girls in mohammeds time was in the main learning to cook, clean, looking after children and being a subordinate wife. you would need to aks yourself why all and any of the islamic worlds most noted writers and scientists have all been men. All caliphs and religious leaders have been men for over 1000 years, women were not allowed to rise to the top of political offices. the fact pakistan had a female prime minister was more to do with 30 years of western democracy than 1200 previous years of islamic tradition


Simple question. If higher education was not allowed for muslim women in Islam, then why is that today muslim girls and getting higher education? I'm also doing Law, my mum has done Maths, my grandad was a Maths teacher in a small village in Pakistan, my aunt a doctor and another aunt a dentist. Women in my family are more educated than men. Plus, I belong from a devoted Muslim family. All of women in my family who has good education wear a hijab, just like me.

My female Muslim cousins in Pak? One is doing Physics, the other Maths and the third becoming doctor. My aunt in Pak is also a teacher. You might say this is only my family. But even in Pak, education is given a great importance, its cos the corrupt government that literacy rate is so low.

Any muslim doesn't want to be a bad muslim, in this sense if education for women was not allowed in Islam, why would Muslims want be bad muslims? Plus, if this was the case, believe me, a religious family like mine wouldn't have allowed my education.
Original post by Maliha Ahmed
Simple question. If higher education was not allowed for muslim women in Islam, then why is that today muslim girls and getting higher education? I'm also doing Law, my mum has done Maths, my grandad was a Maths teacher in a small village in Pakistan, my aunt a doctor and another aunt a dentist. Women in my family are more educated than men. Plus, I belong from a devoted Muslim family. All of women in my family who has good education wear a hijab, just like me.

My female Muslim cousins in Pak? One is doing Physics, the other Maths and the third becoming doctor. My aunt in Pak is also a teacher. You might say this is only my family. But even in Pak, education is given a great importance, its cos the corrupt government that literacy rate is so low.

Any muslim doesn't want to be a bad muslim, in this sense if education for women was not allowed in Islam, why would Muslims want be bad muslims? Plus, if this was the case, believe me, a religious family like mine wouldn't have allowed my education.


yes you could argue that that region does hold a great importance to education in general, this could be traced back in pakistan, historically as part of india certainly, as alluded to earlier asian tradition having an extensive attachment to higher learning, early sciences with some of the worlds first universities - id make that link with less emphasis on islam which arrived in the region much later.

however we are trying to clarify that islam doesnt specifcally state anywhere what malala is trying to promote, ie the equal rigths for women and the promotion of higher learning. you may be studiying law ( i guess in a university) and say you are a devoted muslim family - but you also must be attending a secular university ( ie not a madrassa or islamic school) and also sit in a class with males ( mix genders) and possibly your lecturers would also be male. None of that is islamic infact much of it was specifically prohibited in the quran and hadith.

if you read the quran identifying speficic references to women, you will find comments about marriage, obeying the husband, covering yourself up and staying indoors. These are islamic instructions. there is zero about females getting law degrees, is there not. so that action you are undertaking is simply from an outside influence ( presumably western)
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Meenglishnogood
yes you could argue that that region does hold a great importance to education in general, this could be traced back in pakistan, historically as part of india certainly, as alluded to earlier asian tradition having an extensive attachment to higher learning, early sciences with some of the worlds first universities - id make that link with less emphasis on islam which arrived in the region much later.

however we are trying to clarify that islam doesnt specifcally state anywhere what malala is trying to promote, ie the equal rigths for women and the promotion of higher learning. you may be studiying law ( i guess in a university) and say you are a devoted muslim family - but you also must be attending a secular university ( ie not a madrassa or islamic school) and also sit in a class with males ( mix genders) and possibly your lecturers would also be male. None of that is islamic infact much of it was specifically prohibited in the quran and hadith.

if you read the quran identifying speficic references to women, you will find comments about marriage, obeying the husband, covering yourself up and staying indoors. These are islamic instructions. there is zero about females getting law degrees, is there not. so that action you are undertaking is simply from an outside influence ( presumably western)


Your point about madrassas, islamic schools and mix genders. In Pakistan, a muslim state, women and men get education together and also work together. And its not seen as a big deal, can you imagine a country like Pakistan?

Most muslims support Malala's courage for standing up for Women's education. Why do you think its the influence of the West? Islam does promotes higher education cos if it didn't you wouldn't have found universities in Islamic countries e.g. Noorul Islam University, KanyaKumari, India and Qiad-e-Azam university of Islamabad, Pakistan and many more.

Believe me, you have no idea how strict my family is but it is cos of Islam that we are getting a good education and women in my family previously have. The development of surgery was influenced and pretty much depends on the work of Arabic Muslim surgeons, e.g. Ibn Sina.

Yes, Islam talks about covering up but that does not mean a woman who is covered up cannot get an education. Go to Islamic countries and see how many women go to universities wearing a niqab. You would be shocked. Marriage? What's wrong in obeying your man? Same goes for your husband, ever heard of haq mehr and men's responsibilities towards their wives, according to Islam?
Original post by Maliha Ahmed
Your point about madrassas, islamic schools and mix genders. In Pakistan, a muslim state, women and men get education together and also work together. And its not seen as a big deal, can you imagine a country like Pakistan? ?
pakistan though a muslim country ( and influenced politically heavily by certain arab states) actually has a system of governance and civil infrastructure based on Britain. it is a democracy with a judiciary, though many of its laws are influenced by islamic clerics. so its society is not a typical 'islamic' one, and you cannot claim it is - this was one of the talibans biggest issues, who want to follow the afgan taliban who stopped all girls over a certain age going to any school and women kept indoors all hours - this idea wasnt dreamt out of thin air it was inspired by edicts in the quran itself.
universities where men and women sit next each other borrows nothing from islam and everything form Western or at least Non-islamic society. there were no mixed sex, non madrassa type universities in mohammeds time.
Original post by Maliha Ahmed


Most muslims support Malala's courage for standing up for Women's education. Why do you think its the influence of the West? Islam does promotes higher education cos if it didn't you wouldn't have found universities in Islamic countries e.g. Noorul Islam University, KanyaKumari, India and Qiad-e-Azam university of Islamabad, Pakistan and many more. ?
again as stated many of these were founded as islamic schools mot proper universities. there is western influence in pakistan, even if you dont like to admit it - what law are you studying currently, unless its islamic law, it probably is based on old English law. and you and your family all probably studied courses based on old uk university syllabuses. were you even aware that in islams early years, muslims didnt even understand basic mathematcis, the first qurans didnt even use numbers to designated verses - so where was the value for education here ?

malala was fighting against an interpretation of the quran, it maybe regarded as 'extreme' but it is still from the quran, nowhere else.

i think tho she is smart enough not to go directly attacking verses in the quran.


Original post by Maliha Ahmed

Believe me, you have no idea how strict my family is but it is cos of Islam that we are getting a good education and women in my family previously have. The development of surgery was influenced and pretty much depends on the work of Arabic Muslim surgeons, e.g. Ibn Sina. ?



i doubt it was 'cos of islam' id say thats what you convince yourself. Surgery was practiced in asia over 500 years before islam existed. i accept the likes of persians like Ibn Sina advanced techniques significantly, but then where do you think he educated himself in medicine , the quran, or some non-islamic greek or asian text books that predated the quran?

if you read any biography of him youll see he was taught arithmetic by a non-muslim farmer in India, then studied Aristotles works ( a greek btw)


Original post by Maliha Ahmed

Yes, Islam talks about covering up but that does not mean a woman who is covered up cannot get an education. Go to Islamic countries and see how many women go to universities wearing a niqab. You would be shocked. Marriage? What's wrong in obeying your man? Same goes for your husband, ever heard of haq mehr and men's responsibilities towards their wives, according to Islam?

no, covering up doesnt stop you getting an education, neither in theory, would avoiding mixing of sexes - but they would not help you to do so, wearing a niqaub to university seems ridiculously obstructive, imagine if your lecturer insisted on wearing such - id demand my fees back. so its wrong to say islam encourages education - it doesnt, this is cultural and often familial
Reply 73
Original post by Badshah
What about homosexuals?

maybe but why did you specifically pick out homosexuals in Pakistan?
he helps everyone who is in need, especially providing free ambulance services, education, healthcare services, food, water, houses etc something the government doesn't like doing except make themselves more rich and let the poor provide for themselves.
(edited 9 years ago)

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