Fed up with 'lad culture'

Right here;

I don't think it's all groups of young men. I think there are other characteristics of groups associated to LADism other than age. Muscley, sporty, loud, etc.

I agree that the same happened regarding chav culture and track suits.

ok - so do you think it is acceptable that just because a group happens to be muscly/sporty/loud etc, that people stereotype them as rapists?

Except nobody with any brain at all is doing that.
What we are saying is the culture of it, that does promote misogynistic attitudes, does eventually lead to an attitude where a tiny minority will think rape is ok.

There is a field of psychology that basically says that if a group of people make crass / extreme jokes about a subject that push what is deemed to be acceptable, then the minority of people in that group who may have tendencies to think that is acceptable will essentially have their own views strengthened. So someone who thinks rape and talking about women in that way is acceptable will have those views reinforced by other "lads" making (what they see as harmless) jokes.

the culture of what? What is "it"?

Your ignorance as to the nature of the mechanics of jokes apparently knows no bounds. Rape jokes humiliate and denigrate rapists and rape-like attitudes, not women. You can always spot a rapist, because he is the one that doesn't laugh at rape jokes.

implying there is another type

the culture of what? What is "it"?

Your ignorance as to the nature of the mechanics of jokes apparently knows no bounds. Rape jokes humiliate and denigrate rapists and rape-like attitudes, not women. You can always spot a rapist, because he is the one that doesn't laugh at rape jokes.

Seriously? For someone who claims to know everything about lads you are either lying or being purposefully dense.

As I said in a previous post:

The whole getting stupidly drunk for no reason other than to get drunk, having misogynistic attitudes (and will often sing misogynistic songs very loudly in public), thinking females are just there for sex, thinking every other guy should drink like they do and make misogynistic comments like they do etc etc. That is what lad culture means.

Except, no, that is not what lad culture means. You cannot just invent a new meaning for an existing word.

Replace the word "lad" with "black" and try to tell me you're not a racist.

Again, you're simply getting confused about what a rape joke actually is. rape jokes attack misogynistic assumptions and make it abundantly clear that these views are completely abhorrent and unacceptable. Rape Humour is an important weapon against misogyny.

I would imagine she is glad that there is someone willing to stand up and represent her in tackling rapists and misogynists.

I am not making up a new meaning. That IS now the meaning. You may not like that, but sorry, that is the meaning the word now has.

And in any case, so what? That culture is what I (and the OP) was talking about. It doesn't matter what it is called. If you really want we can create a new name for it. I propose "scum culture".


No idea what they hell you are on about.

To imply that all lads are misogynists is incredibly bigoted.

Once again, no one is doing this.

ok - so do you think it is acceptable that just because a group happens to be muscly/sporty/loud etc, that people stereotype them as rapists?

Is it any more acceptable to stereotype all sporty young men as racists than it is to stereotype all black people as criminals or gay men as paedophiles?

Hm? No.


Is this an invitation to discuss the varying acceptability of stereotyping? I'd say there's a graduated concern here. For the examples you gave, of course it's outlandish to assume sporty young men are rapists, or black people are criminals, or gay men are paedophiles, or any other nonsense of that type. But it might be another to expect one group or another to be more likely to hold misogynistic beliefs, or to be more violent, or be of a particular political persuasion, etc., based on the characteristics of that group (which I think would be more common).

I say this because the statistical likelihood of having made an informed judgement differs depending on what it is you're assessing and the means you're using to assess it. Given that there are correlations between different social groups and their respective social norms, if you can identify the traits of a particular social group, you can expect a greater likelihood for members of that group to conform to that particular social group's norms.

At one extreme, there's making the assumption that a group of young sporty people are rapists; at the other extreme, there's making the assumption that a group of people with long hair and wear black from head to toe are into gothic/metal music. The former example would not only be wildly inaccurate, but perniciously attacks the character of innocent people; the latter is going to be more accurate, and more-or-less harmless.

I think these two things - the accuracy of the assessment and the consequences of error - are what should govern the acceptability of judging people this way. Or at least that's what seems sensible at the present, having thought about the issue for all of 10 minutes or so.

There has been a slight misunderstanding here.

I am not suggesting that talking about sex is immoral and to be discouraged, I am trying to get across the point that some men take it to the point where they appear to view women as objects, possessions or things that are there to be used.

I did allude to this in subsequent posts, but I appreciate that the wording surrounding that may have left some room for misunderstanding in my OP.

With regards to the accuracy of the assessment as a proxy for acceptability of assumption that you discuss above.

Would you typically characterise a rapist and misogynist as being muscular, sporty, athletic, popular, and prone to socialising in large groups, and to include another stereotype, generally attractive and successful with women?

I would generally not. In fact I would go as far as to contest that not only is this assessment inaccurate, its completely reversed. Which completely nullifies the acceptability of any associated assumption.

I don't like the term lad culture, I think it is divisive and frankly bigoted, and I would encourage anyone reading this thread to think carefully about the validity of the underlying assumptions inherent to the term and have the courage to challenge anyone who uses it.