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One cubic root is reciprocal of other question

Question is:

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

I am not really sure how to approach this one. Here is how I started.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

1+β=ba1 + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

β=ba1=baaa=aba\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - 1 = \frac{-b}{a} - \frac{a}{a} = \frac{a-b}{a}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}

Hence

aba=da\frac{a-b}{a} = \frac{-d}{a}

ab=da-b = -d

Is this going in the right direction. How can I get unstuck?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 1
Original post by acomber
Question is:

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

I am not really sure how to approach this one. Here is how I started.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

1+β=ba1 + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

β=ba1=aba\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - 1 = \frac{a-b}{a}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}

Hence

aba=da\frac{a-b}{a} = \frac{-d}{a}

ab=da-b = -d

Is this going in the right direction. How can I get unstuck?



I am not following the very first manipulation for -b/a
Reply 2
The sum of the roots = -b/a ? In this case the roots are alpha reciprocal of alpha and then I call the 3rd root beta. The three roots summed = -b/a.

Thank you, I see the mistake now.

So I now have:

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

I am not really sure how to approach this one. Here is how I started.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

1+β=ba1 + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

β=ba1=baaa=aba\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - 1 = \frac{-b}{a} - \frac{a}{a} = \frac{-a-b}{a}

β=aba\beta = \frac{-a-b}{a}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}

Hence

β=aba=da\beta = \frac{-a-b}{a} = \frac{-d}{a}

Multiply by -a

a+b=da+b = d


Is this going in the right direction. How can I get unstuck?

Original post by TeeEm
I am not following the very first manipulation for -b/a
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by acomber
The sum of the roots = -b/a ? In this case the roots are alpha reciprocal of alpha and then I call the 3rd root beta. The three roots summed = -b/a.


how is a +1/a +b = 1+ b?

a=alpha
b = beta
Reply 4
Ah yes - must have been tired. I was thinking multiplication.

So by fixing the errors I can now say.

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

Not sure what I can do with this:

β=baα1α\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - \alpha - \frac{1}{\alpha}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}


What could I do next?



Original post by TeeEm
how is a +1/a +b = 1+ b?

a=alpha
b = beta
Reply 5
Original post by acomber
Ah yes - must have been tired. I was thinking multiplication.

So by fixing the errors I can now say.

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

Not sure what I can do with this:

β=baα1α\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - \alpha - \frac{1}{\alpha}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}


What could I do next?



you have 3 "parametric equations" and two "parameters", alpha and beta.

you eliminate the same way if you had 2 parametric equations and 1 parameter.

It may involve tricks.

I will have a look at it a bit later if you have not managed to bet rid of alpha and beta
Reply 6
Original post by acomber
Ah yes - must have been tired. I was thinking multiplication.

So by fixing the errors I can now say.

Show that one root of az^3 + bz^2 + cz + d = 0 is the reciprocal of another root if and only if a^2 - d^2 = ac - bd.

We can say one root is α\alpha and the other is 1α\frac{1}{\alpha}

The other root can be β\beta

So the three roots of the cubic are α,1α,β\alpha, \frac{1}{\alpha}, \beta

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

Not sure what I can do with this:

β=baα1α\beta = \frac{-b}{a} - \alpha - \frac{1}{\alpha}

The c/a is trickier

α.1α+α.β+1α.β=ca\alpha . \frac{1}{\alpha} + \alpha . \beta + \frac{1}{\alpha} . \beta = \frac{c}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

Not quite sure how to proceed with this because I am not sure how to work out what αβ\alpha\beta would be


(α)(1α)(β)=β=da(\alpha)(\frac{1}{\alpha})(\beta) = \beta = \frac{-d}{a}


What could I do next?



It is not that hard.

Just did it rough

Try it first youself
Reply 7
So far then I have these three equations.

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

β=da\beta = \frac{-d}{a}

So, I have the \beta on its own. But I don't have an eqn with just \alpha. So stuck really.


Original post by TeeEm
It is not that hard.

Just did it rough

Try it first youself
Reply 8
Original post by acomber
So far then I have these three equations.

α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

β=da\beta = \frac{-d}{a}

So, I have the \beta on its own. But I don't have an eqn with just \alpha. So stuck really.



a=alpha
b=beta


A=a
B=b
C=c
D=d

factorize the b in the second equation so it leaves (a+1/a)

then plug the b=-D/A into the first 2 equations

solve the fist 2 equations for a+1/a

then set them equal

then answer in about 2 lines
Reply 9
Ahhhhh, thank you sooo much.

I didn't think about considering alpha + 1/alpha as a unit.

(1) α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

(2) 1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

(3) β=da\beta = \frac{-d}{a}

(2)factorise beta
1+β(α+1α)=ca 1+ \beta(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a}

substitute -d/a for beta for (1) and (2)
α+1α+da=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \frac{-d}{a} = \frac{-b}{a}

α+1α=bada=dba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} = \frac{-b}{a} - \frac{-d}{a} = \frac{d-b}{a}


1+da(α+1α)=ca 1+ \frac{-d}{a}(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a}

da(α+1α)=ca=aa=caa\frac{-d}{a}(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a} = \frac{a}{a} = \frac{c-a}{a}

d(α+1α)=ca-d(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = c-a

α+1α=cad=acd\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} = \frac{c-a}{-d} = \frac{a-c}{d}

Therefore

dba=acd\frac{d-b}{a} = \frac{a-c}{d}

d(db)=a(ac)d(d-b) = a(a-c)

d2db=a2acd^2-db = a^2-ac

a2d2=acbda^2-d^2 = ac-bd

Hurray



Original post by TeeEm
a=alpha
b=beta


A=a
B=b
C=c
D=d

factorize the b in the second equation so it leaves (a+1/a)

then plug the b=-D/A into the first 2 equations

solve the fist 2 equations for a+1/a

then set them equal

then answer in about 2 lines
Reply 10
Original post by acomber
Ahhhhh, thank you sooo much.

I didn't think about considering alpha + 1/alpha as a unit.

(1) α+1α+β=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \beta = \frac{-b}{a}

(2) 1+αβ+βα=ca1 + \alpha\beta + \frac{\beta}{\alpha} = \frac{c}{a}

(3) β=da\beta = \frac{-d}{a}

(2)factorise beta
1+β(α+1α)=ca 1+ \beta(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a}

substitute -d/a for beta for (1) and (2)
α+1α+da=ba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} + \frac{-d}{a} = \frac{-b}{a}

α+1α=bada=dba\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} = \frac{-b}{a} - \frac{-d}{a} = \frac{d-b}{a}


1+da(α+1α)=ca 1+ \frac{-d}{a}(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a}

da(α+1α)=ca=aa=caa\frac{-d}{a}(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = \frac{c}{a} = \frac{a}{a} = \frac{c-a}{a}

d(α+1α)=ca-d(\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha}) = c-a

α+1α=cad=acd\alpha + \frac{1}{\alpha} = \frac{c-a}{-d} = \frac{a-c}{d}

Therefore

dba=acd\frac{d-b}{a} = \frac{a-c}{d}

d(db)=a(ac)d(d-b) = a(a-c)

d2db=a2acd^2-db = a^2-ac

a2d2=acbda^2-d^2 = ac-bd

Hurray



well done

(Excellent LaTex skills)
Reply 11
This question is two way, one side we are assuming that roots reciprocal relation and proved a^2-d^2=ac-bd. But we for the converse we have to assume the relation a^2-d^2=ac-bd and have to show two roots are reciprocal. BECAUSE IT IS MENTIONED THAT IF AND ONLY IF.

Best Regards
Ali

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