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Oscillations with small amplitude

Could anyone help with number 3 please?

I've not made much progress at all. I began by saying the COM will be on the rod BC but this didn't work. Then I tried to let the COM act through the centre of the triangle (which it doesn't but I wanted to see what happened). This got me closer to the right answer but still not there.
Original post by DomStaff



Let me check I'm getting the right answer first. I make the initial d.e.

θ¨=32θ\ddot{\theta}=-\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\theta

Is that correct?
Reply 2
Original post by ghostwalker
Let me check I'm getting the right answer first. I make the initial d.e.

θ¨=32θ\ddot{\theta}=-\frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\theta

Is that correct?


T=2π2l3g T= 2 \pi \sqrt{\frac{2l}{\sqrt{3} g}}

So, nope, unfortunately.
Original post by DomStaff
T=2π2l3g T= 2 \pi \sqrt{\frac{2l}{\sqrt{3} g}}

So, nope, unfortunately.


OK, couple of slips (rather rusty), but the basic idea was correct.

If you consider a displacment of theta from the horizontal for BC, then:
Angle to C from the vertical at A is 30+theta (assuming C is above B), and angle of B from the vertical at A is 30-theta.

Then considering moments about A, the total moment is:

mgl(sin(30+θ)sin(30θ))mgl(\sin(30+\theta) - \sin(30-\theta))

Expand the sines and simplify, and equate to "appropriate angular acceleration"

Edit:

Quick check, that should be
Unparseable latex formula:

=-2ml^2\ddot{\theta}}

(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by ghostwalker
OK, couple of slips (rather rusty), but the basic idea was correct.

If you consider a displacment of theta from the horizontal for BC, then:
Angle to C from the vertical at A is 30+theta (assuming C is above B), and angle of B from the vertical at A is 30-theta.

Then considering moments about A, the total moment is:

mgl(sin(30+θ)sin(30θ))mgl(\sin(30+\theta) - \sin(30-\theta))

Expand the sines and simplify, and equate to "appropriate angular acceleration"

Edit:

Quick check, that should be
Unparseable latex formula:

=-2ml^2\ddot{\theta}}



Expanding the brackets I get 3mglθ \sqrt{3} mgl \theta , letting theta be small, what after this? I've never tackled a problem like this with moments.
Original post by DomStaff
Expanding the brackets I get 3mglθ \sqrt{3} mgl \theta , letting theta be small, what after this? I've never tackled a problem like this with moments.


As per the edit in my previous post.
Original post by DomStaff
...


As you wouldn't do it that way, you could post your methodology.

I will be away for a few hours though.
Reply 7
Original post by ghostwalker
As you wouldn't do it that way, you could post your methodology.

I will be away for a few hours though.



Original post by ghostwalker
As per the edit in my previous post.


Where does the l^2 come from? I'm assuming you're using transverse acceleration as r d^2theta/dt^2, but I can't seem to get r=l^2.

But we've worked out the moment about A, what connection does it have to the transcerse acceleration? (Never seen this before)


wait. I see it now I think

angular acceleration = l d^2theta/dt^2
hence the moment about A is l^2 d^2theta/dt^2, then equate the two.

1) are there any other ways of tackling the problem?
2) how would you do thrust, like what would you consider?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DomStaff
Where does the l^2 come from? I'm assuming you're using transverse acceleration as r d^2theta/dt^2, but I can't seem to get r=l^2.

But we've worked out the moment about A, what connection does it have to the transcerse acceleration? (Never seen this before)


wait. I see it now I think

angular acceleration = l d^2theta/dt^2
hence the moment about A is l^2 d^2theta/dt^2, then equate the two.

1) are there any other ways of tackling the problem?
2) how would you do thrust, like what would you consider?


The "moment" about a point is the torque on the system about that point. The torque is related to the angular acceleration via the moment of inertia:

τA=IAθ¨\mathbf{\tau}_A = I_A\ddot{\mathbf{\theta}}

Since IA=Σimiri2=ml2+ml2=2ml2I_A = \Sigma_i m_i r_i^2 = ml^2 + ml^2 = 2ml^2 then you can write 2ml2θ¨=mglsin(30+θ)+mglsin(30θ) 2ml^2 \ddot{\mathbf{\theta}} = -mgl\sin{(30 + \theta)} + mgl\sin{(30 - \theta)}


It is also possible to solve this system through energy considerations, since the total energy is a conserved constant.
Reply 9
Original post by Astronomical
The "moment" about a point is the torque on the system about that point. The torque is related to the angular acceleration via the moment of inertia:

τA=IAθ¨\mathbf{\tau}_A = I_A\ddot{\mathbf{\theta}}

Since IA=Σimiri2=ml2+ml2=2ml2I_A = \Sigma_i m_i r_i^2 = ml^2 + ml^2 = 2ml^2 then you can write 2ml2θ¨=mglsin(30+θ)+mglsin(30θ) 2ml^2 \ddot{\mathbf{\theta}} = -mgl\sin{(30 + \theta)} + mgl\sin{(30 - \theta)}


It is also possible to solve this system through energy considerations, since the total energy is a conserved constant.


I see. It's just a bit odd because that method using M4 knowledge when this is only M3.

and how would you calculate the thrust?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DomStaff

1) are there any other ways of tackling the problem?
2) how would you do thrust, like what would you consider?


You could consider each mass separately and work out the transverse acceleration, using F=ma. This would include the thrust in the bar. It seems rather fiddly getting the angles right.

But you will have two equations and can eliminate T to get the d.e. and hence the period.

You can also, equate the two, and get T as a function of theta, m ,and g.
Reply 11
Original post by ghostwalker
You could consider each mass separately and work out the transverse acceleration, using F=ma. This would include the thrust in the bar. It seems rather fiddly getting the angles right.

But you will have two equations and can eliminate T to get the d.e. and hence the period.

You can also, equate the two, and get T as a function of theta, m ,and g.


Going to be honest, not seen thrust in any question before.

So, does it act at both ends affecting both particles, hence to find the total thrust you just sum the two?
Original post by DomStaff
Going to be honest, not seen thrust in any question before.

So, does it act at both ends affecting both particles, hence to find the total thrust you just sum the two?


Yes, it's just like a car and caravan couping; force acting in opposite directions at either end.
Original post by DomStaff
Going to be honest, not seen thrust in any question before.

So, does it act at both ends affecting both particles, hence to find the total thrust you just sum the two?


I've gone through this and got:

1. period, τ=2π2l3g\tau = 2\pi\sqrt{\frac{2l}{\sqrt{3}g}}
2. thrust, T=33mg(sin(30+θ)+sin(30θ))T=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{3}mg(\sin(30+ \theta)+\sin(30-\theta))

by applying N2 tangentially, which I suspect, bearing in mind the module, is the expected approach (i.e. moments of inertia is not the way to go here).

You need not consider the thrusts from the AB, AC rods, as they act purely radially so give no tangential acceleration, but you need to resolve the tangential component of the thrust in BC.

The only tricky part is drawing the diagrams and ensuring that you're working with the correct angles when resolving the weight and thrust (and getting the sign convention for angles right - I got confused at first)

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