How much input should the father have in deciding on abortion?

It was to your point that this is determined as a 'subjective' topic because people in this thread have different opinions. That is what I was contesting.

So you weren't against my argument on differing opinions on ethics?

You can just provide abortion-only medical access and no child benefits.



1. Talking about anger. I said "I want to believe". I did not say "I believed". Also, using offensive words does not support your views.
2. I didn't. If you have a look at post 94, you will see that I used the bold feature on your text to reference the replied I made. You will see that most of your text has been referenced. You have done no such things with my points. If you still believe, that I didn't feel free to give the number of posts containing points I didn't reply to. I believe your claim is false but I am willing to change my beliefs in the face of evidence.
3. No two individuals have the same ethical views. Your blanket statement seems to lack relevance here. If you don't wish to have your views challenged, don't post in here. But you should not get angry whenever someone challenges your views.
4. Again, using offensive words does not support your views.
5. Ad hominem.
6. Same as point 5. Also point 3 applies here too.
7. Point 3 applies here too.

There is no point in getting angry and using offensive words, Sophie. I want to believe that you can do better than that.

No.
I initially took issue with how you just floated away on a cloud of moral supremacy, which I have noticed a lot of feminists (or, in your case, who I initially assumed to be a feminist) on this forum do. I want to understand why they do this.

I do agree that the man should voice his opinion when it comes to this but ultimately it's still the woman's choice. That's why I believe its important to be on the same side of the abortion argument when in a relationship. I couldn't imagine being pro choice myself but then have a pro life partner. That just wouldn't work.

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It just so happens this is a particular area which will never be fair purely due to the nature of pregnancy.

1.Well clearly it is, just look at how different the responses are to each other in this thread

Juichiro thinks it is unethical for a man to have to pay for a child he doesn't want and has no say in, 2.I think it is unethical for a child to go without due to it's father not paying child maintenance.

Clearly in a perfect world this 3.child never would have been born if it didn't have two parents who want it. But 4.this isn't a perfect world and children will be born regardless, is that unethical? Yes. 5.But it is also unethical to force women to abort to prevent this.

Do you think that he should be forced to pay child support if he doesn't want to keep it?

I think that's a separate issue entirely. If a man has fathered a baby than he has a duty to that child to help support them, same way that the mother does.

Not even angry, more disappointed.

Please don't reply to me again. If you care to know why I didn't respond to your post view my replies 100umsgod. If not, no matter.

But surely to give the mother more reproductive rights than the father is unfair? Do you think both genders should have equal rights?

1. Forcing something on someone is not ethical whether it is a pregnancy/abortion on a woman or financial payments on a man.
2. "I disagree with everyone who says the woman should not have to abort if it was unwanted - she should have thought about that before she chose to get pregnant".
3. "it's unfair for the child to grow up without a dad - it must be horrible for a child to think s/he wasn't wanted [because the mother chose to gave birth to a fatherless child]".
4. " anyone with a heart and is not self centred choose to only give birth to a child whose biological parents have chosen to have. Actions have consequences. "

I think that's a separate issue entirely. If a man has fathered a baby than he has a duty to that child to help support them, same way that the mother does.

Following your statement, the logical conclusion is that if a man has fathered a baby (i.e. his sperm has contributed to the eventual birth of a child), he should should support them the same way as the mother.

So all those sperm bank donors, should, following your statement, support children they did not want to have.

I think the above is unethical.

Well both have the same 'reproductive' rights in the first place, either can choose whether they want to reproduce, but the mother is then the only one who has to deal with the gestation after the reproduction, and that is where men have no rights over the incubation and gestation of the foetus. It happens within a woman's body and is therefore no longer within the jurisdiction of both parents (unlike the initial act) as actually it only affects one of them.

The question about providing child support afterwards is no longer a question of the rights of the parents but that of the child who is now an entity in the equation and is owed support by both its mother and father.

a1. Similar to what Sophie Small said, I don't think it's ethical for the child to grow up with their father being uninterested in them and bthe child's interests overpower all others because s/he didn't ask to be brought into this world, and I think it's really cruel to do that to a child
3. See 1. and more like the father chose to opt out. c.You're implying it's the mother's fault the child is fatherless. While d.it was both their faults she got pregnant, eif she decides to go ahead with the pregnancy and the child is born, then the father having nothing to do with it will create psychological/self esteem issues as they grow up, and therefore it's actually his fault. fHow would you feel if your dad left you and your mum while she was pregnant with you? Because I know that would make me feel like ****. gYou have to release this is not just a petty, legal contract that the man can opt out of easily. h.This is a living, breathing human being who needs love and attention, so empathy and selflessness is needed by both involved in this situation.

Reproductive right's refer to the right to terminate a pregnancy, not the act of sex.

Having a baby only effects one of them? Are you serious? Are the feelings of men really this worthless? My mum worked with a guy who ended up killing himself after his wife had a miscarriage. Obviously it doesn't just effect one of them. Ask your father if it would've effected him if your mum had aborted you against his will. FFS this thread is depressing.

You seem incredibly unaware of the existence of abortion. Abortion removes all the ethical ramifications associated with a child's existence.

The contract between a donor to a sperm bank and the recipient of sperm quite clearly assumes this not to be the case, so this is a silly point to make.