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Should Muslim Women be Allowed to Wear the Hijab in State Schools?
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CorpusNinja
Well...does Christianity require followers to wear a cross? I don't think so.
The two issues are fundamentally different, yet similar; the cross is by no means a homogenous 'icon' of christianity (some groups prefer to use a cross, whilst the Byzantine [Orthodox] cross and the Catholic cross are different icons). Similarly the Hijab is not a homogenous practice (as I have explained above) yet importantly it is not a de facto icon of faith; if the hijab were a consensual icon of faith it would be worn by both males and females. The hijab, rather than acting as a 'symbol' for faith, could be considered to the physical manifestation of a factor or stipulent of Islam (to dress with honour and modesty). The Quran does not say that the Hijab should be worn, but that modesty and honour are intricately bound up as issues determining one's religious identity.
Furthermore, both the cross and the Hijab should be considered not as icons of historical conformity; the cross was originally used as an 'underground' emblem of faith against the Roman pagan majority, whilst for many women, marginal in society, creative/interpretive veiling allows an individual to communicate and convey a 'secret' or 'hidden' meaning and to assert individual identity (knowing who to veil to; to what extent to veil; how to wear ones veil). However, the Hijab is not an institutional requirement of Islam and instead a secular/religious representation of faith and idenity.
jaw
I don't think that Hijab, crucifixes or any other religeous clothing or jewellery should be banned.
IMO, to ban all religion from schools stops integration and understanding which are paramount to things like equality, acceptance and understanding in society.
Thats my two cents..
IMO, to ban all religion from schools stops integration and understanding which are paramount to things like equality, acceptance and understanding in society.
Thats my two cents..
according to the last census wasnt there are something like 10000 practising jedi throughout the UK, does that mean the younglings should be allowed to wear cloaks and carry lightsabers.
no religious icon whatsoever should be allowed in school, symbols from religions such as wicca (which i follow) or satanism are sure to offend some people yet if you allow sikhs to wear bangles, muslims to wear hijabs/niqabs, christians to wear crosses then you have to allow a satanist his upside down cross.
Keep religion to the classroom not on a student. a class in RE studies will help people understand a religion. Now you could argue that it will provide the children an option to ask questions concerning a muslim dress if another child is wearing the niqab or hijab. however its unlikely as as a rule like sticks with like. Muslim/asians hang out together, whites hang out together and blacks hang out together, not often do the groups mix. So it might have the opposite effect causing more isolation.
Except as a subject keep religion out of schools. Children are not religious they are chilren
silverbolt
...according to the last census wasnt there are something like 10000 practising jedi throughout the UK, does that mean the younglings should be allowed to wear cloaks and carry lightsabers...
In England and Wales 390,127 people (0.7%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country.
On November 16, 2006, two self-proclaimed Jedi delivered a protest letter to UN officials in recognition of the International Day for Tolerance. They requested that it be renamed the "UN Interstellar Day of Tolerance" and cited the 2001 Census showing 390,000 Jedi in England and Wales. Wiki
The UN International Day of Tolerance, which takes place annually on November 16, is aimed at emphasising the dangers of intolerance and promoting integration and cohesion across the globe.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=416761
A bit convoluted and tangled for an argument would you not say? The irony being that Lucas (who contacted members of the Habibiyyah Sufi Order in Berkeley, CA in order to do research for Star Wars), adopted Islamic ideas of spiritual chivalry [mystic-warriors - Muh-Jedi-Deen] futuwwat in the Jedi teachings [complete with bearded visage and long, flowing robes with hoods] lifted from the esoteric and spiritual elements of Sufi warriors for the Star Wars mythology > influenced from the ideals and principles of the apprentice-master relationship of Sufism -an Islamic mystical sect. For example, the desert planet of Tatooine was filmed near the real desert town of Tataouine in Tunisia. In Episode I: The Phantom Menace, the Jedi master, Qui-Gon Jinn, > Jinn in Islam is one of the forces of the unseen. Yoda, first seen in Episode V: The Empire StrikesBack in Islamic traditions is known as Al-Khidr which means the Green One in Arabic. Qur'anic commentators say al-Khidr is one of the prophets; others refer to him simply as an angel who functions as a guide to those who seek God.
It's either one way or the other. Either all religious apparel is allowed or none. Exception implies favoritism or bias, and eliminating both as much as possible is crucial to equality under the current system.
Don't like it? Go to a private Muslim school, or move to a predominantly Muslim country.'
Conforming to political correctness shouldn't be allowed to far as to bend or add an asterisks to laws.
Don't like it? Go to a private Muslim school, or move to a predominantly Muslim country.'
Conforming to political correctness shouldn't be allowed to far as to bend or add an asterisks to laws.
Urban Dervish™
In England and Wales 390,127 people (0.7%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the country.
Less than 1% of the Enlgish population is Jewish?
I never knew that...
Socrates
Britain is my country. Why should I move? Banning something as innocous just makes a mockery of everything we hold so dear.
Because Britain is a nation where majority rules by representation, and apparently you would not be in the majority. Therefore, you don't rule. And, therefore, you are to adhere to the laws set forth by those who do, or you face persecution. It's a rather simple concept.
Whether or not your opinion differs is an entirely different matter. You are entitlted to an opinion, but you are obligated to follow the law.
Rusty33
Because Britain is a nation where majority rules by representation, and apparently you would not be in the majority. Therefore, you don't rule. And, therefore, you are to adhere to the laws set forth by those who do, or you face persecution. It's a rather simple concept.
Whether or not your opinion differs is an entirely different matter. You are entitlted to an opinion, but you are obligated to follow the law.
Whether or not your opinion differs is an entirely different matter. You are entitlted to an opinion, but you are obligated to follow the law.
I disagree with none of that. There is no law which states that wearing religious symbols (whatever they may be) in the classroom is illegal. Moreover, we value liberalism over here, and that includes people wearing what they want to. As I say, the hijab is not a contravention of the uniform policy, nor is any other religious symbol.
Having said that, your quote sounds like something that might have been said by the king of Saudi or the president of Iran...
Socrates
I disagree with none of that. There is no law which states that wearing religious symbols (whatever they may be) in the classroom is illegal.
Having said that, your quote sounds like something that might have been said by the king of Saudi or the president of Iran...
Having said that, your quote sounds like something that might have been said by the king of Saudi or the president of Iran...
Then, we have no disagreement? I said in my first post, it's all or none. If it is all, so be it?
It can be applied to support the argument of the other side as well. If you don't like them being worn, go to a private school where they are not allowed.
And, my quote is nothing more than an oversimplification of how a legal system works. Just because the laws differ from country to country doesn't mean the premise behind them is different.
It should be a fundamental right for people to express their faith by means of wearing symbols of that faith in whatever setting they are....provided that right does not impinge on the rights of others.
And in the case of wearing the hijab, no one can claim that it would.
It seems that the wearing of religious symbols is more of a problem for secularists than relgious people.
The school that I am connected with is a Christian faith school and has Muslim students that wear the hijab to school. Some students wear the salwar kazeem with the long pants, but are still required to wear the kilt of the school uniform over the top.
The forbidding of the hijab, wearing of a crucifix - or any other recognisable religious symbol is part of the agenda to remove all religious symbols from secular society.
And in the case of wearing the hijab, no one can claim that it would.
It seems that the wearing of religious symbols is more of a problem for secularists than relgious people.
The school that I am connected with is a Christian faith school and has Muslim students that wear the hijab to school. Some students wear the salwar kazeem with the long pants, but are still required to wear the kilt of the school uniform over the top.
The forbidding of the hijab, wearing of a crucifix - or any other recognisable religious symbol is part of the agenda to remove all religious symbols from secular society.
The Government directive on school uniforms taken from Directgov.uk
Human rights and anti-discrimination issues
While pupils must stick to the school's uniform policy, schools must be considerate to the needs of different cultures, races and religions. Schools must always act reasonably and sensibly in accommodating religious requirements, providing they do not pose a threat to security, safety and learning, or compromise the well-being of the school community.
Schools must not discriminate on the grounds of gender, race, disability, sexual orientation or belief.
While pupils must stick to the school's uniform policy, schools must be considerate to the needs of different cultures, races and religions. Schools must always act reasonably and sensibly in accommodating religious requirements, providing they do not pose a threat to security, safety and learning, or compromise the well-being of the school community.
Schools must not discriminate on the grounds of gender, race, disability, sexual orientation or belief.
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