Professor says career ‘effectively ended’ by union’s transphobia claims
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Interesting debate I've just hopped onto. I agree with some, but not all of Kathleen Stock's arguments and would not want to shut down her right to express her views or the rights of organisation's like Stonewall to provide a counter argument. Me personally, I am pro whatever anyone wants to call themselves, but when some of the rights requested, such as self ID impinge on other oppressed groups there is a need for robust, sensitive debate. If someone has underdone gender reassignment then they should imo be allowed access into women's prisons/refuges/spaces etc. But someone who self IDs is much more problematic. Women are in most cases physically weaker than men and there are a small proportion of men who will abuse this, and abuse the system. Just because it's probably a very small proportion shouldn't shut down debate. Every organisation/group/community has a few bad apples who will enter the organisation/community etc to exploit a situation.
In places where women are vulnerable e.g hostels, hospital, prisons etc.. safe guards should be in place. In Scotland there were 12 Trans prisoners, convicted of violent or sexual crimes transferred to women's prisons. 11 of these prisoners are male bodied and merely used self .I.D https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-offenders-are-moved-into-womens-jails-wmfb9k5n0 Maybe Male-bodied Transwomen with a history of violence should be accommodated in a safe separate space? To stop negative stories such as this, decrease Transphobia and support all women's rights.
All Trans-women and biological women should be provided with a safe space. We need to find a way as a society to provide this and explore the nuances.
This is just my opinion and I am well aware and respect other people's opinions on this issue. I think we need this debate so that we reduce intolerance towards the Trans community, but also admit that there are sensitive issues that need discussion without the fear of being called Transphobic.
In places where women are vulnerable e.g hostels, hospital, prisons etc.. safe guards should be in place. In Scotland there were 12 Trans prisoners, convicted of violent or sexual crimes transferred to women's prisons. 11 of these prisoners are male bodied and merely used self .I.D https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-offenders-are-moved-into-womens-jails-wmfb9k5n0 Maybe Male-bodied Transwomen with a history of violence should be accommodated in a safe separate space? To stop negative stories such as this, decrease Transphobia and support all women's rights.
All Trans-women and biological women should be provided with a safe space. We need to find a way as a society to provide this and explore the nuances.
This is just my opinion and I am well aware and respect other people's opinions on this issue. I think we need this debate so that we reduce intolerance towards the Trans community, but also admit that there are sensitive issues that need discussion without the fear of being called Transphobic.
Original post by Alexdrake
Interesting debate I've just hopped onto. I agree with some, but not all of Kathleen Stock's arguments and would not want to shut down her right to express her views or the rights of organisation's like Stonewall to provide a counter argument. Me personally, I am pro whatever anyone wants to call themselves, but when some of the rights requested, such as self ID impinge on other oppressed groups there is a need for robust, sensitive debate. If someone has underdone gender reassignment then they should imo be allowed access into women's prisons/refuges/spaces etc. But someone who self IDs is much more problematic. Women are in most cases physically weaker than men and there are a small proportion of men who will abuse this, and abuse the system. Just because it's probably a very small proportion shouldn't shut down debate. Every organisation/group/community has a few bad apples who will enter the organisation/community etc to exploit a situation.
In places where women are vulnerable e.g hostels, hospital, prisons etc.. safe guards should be in place. In Scotland there were 12 Trans prisoners, convicted of violent or sexual crimes transferred to women's prisons. 11 of these prisoners are male bodied and merely used self .I.D https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-offenders-are-moved-into-womens-jails-wmfb9k5n0 Maybe Male-bodied Transwomen with a history of violence should be accommodated in a safe separate space? To stop negative stories such as this, decrease Transphobia and support all women's rights.
All Trans-women and biological women should be provided with a safe space. We need to find a way as a society to provide this and explore the nuances.
This is just my opinion and I am well aware and respect other people's opinions on this issue. I think we need this debate so that we reduce intolerance towards the Trans community, but also admit that there are sensitive issues that need discussion without the fear of being called Transphobic.
In places where women are vulnerable e.g hostels, hospital, prisons etc.. safe guards should be in place. In Scotland there were 12 Trans prisoners, convicted of violent or sexual crimes transferred to women's prisons. 11 of these prisoners are male bodied and merely used self .I.D https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-offenders-are-moved-into-womens-jails-wmfb9k5n0 Maybe Male-bodied Transwomen with a history of violence should be accommodated in a safe separate space? To stop negative stories such as this, decrease Transphobia and support all women's rights.
All Trans-women and biological women should be provided with a safe space. We need to find a way as a society to provide this and explore the nuances.
This is just my opinion and I am well aware and respect other people's opinions on this issue. I think we need this debate so that we reduce intolerance towards the Trans community, but also admit that there are sensitive issues that need discussion without the fear of being called Transphobic.
Not to forget the term academic freedom and the freedom of expression everyone has and especially academics in Universities.
The issue with the trans community is that many of them want others to validate and approve their choices. And this isn't going to happen. They are free to do as they wish with their bodies but they also have to accept or tolerate criticism. They cannot impose ethics and perceptions nor to try to affect legislation for their benefit. Many of the claims made by them are at odds with common sense and science.
Gender is a social construct and biological sex is a fact.
However they are free to choose what to do with their bodies, that's not the issue here though.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kathleen-stock-transphobia-university-austin-b1954486.html?amp
Title:
"Kathleen Stock: Professor accused of transphobia takes job at ‘anti-woke’ University of Austin"
One of the paragraphs:
"Ms Stock had previously taught at the University of Sussex in England. But her controversial public comments on gender identity – including saying “the claim ‘trans women are women’ is a fiction” – angered many students, who demanded her removal in a series of protests. The university refused to fire her, but Ms Stock eventually quit"
I would like to see on what grounds the Independent will support that trans-women are biological women as they seem to imply here.
Title:
"Kathleen Stock: Professor accused of transphobia takes job at ‘anti-woke’ University of Austin"
One of the paragraphs:
"Ms Stock had previously taught at the University of Sussex in England. But her controversial public comments on gender identity – including saying “the claim ‘trans women are women’ is a fiction” – angered many students, who demanded her removal in a series of protests. The university refused to fire her, but Ms Stock eventually quit"
I would like to see on what grounds the Independent will support that trans-women are biological women as they seem to imply here.
(edited 2 years ago)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/austin-university-woke-kathleen-stock-transphobic-1647282%3famp=1
Title:
Anti-Woke University of Austin Hires Professor Accused of Transphobia
Title:
Anti-Woke University of Austin Hires Professor Accused of Transphobia
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19721947.amp/
Some very good news
Part of the Article
"AN investigation has been launched by a watchdog into the University of Sussex after an academic at the centre of a trans row was forced to quit.
The inquiry by the Office for Students will look into whether the institution met its “obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech”, Parliament was told.
The move follows the resignation of Kathleen Stock, a professor of philosophy, who was targeted by activists over her views on gender identity.
Prof Stock, who faced death threats and accusations of transphobia, which she denied, announced she would be leaving the University of Sussex last month after a horrible time
Pressed in the House of Lords over the resignation of Prof Stock, education minister Baroness Barran told peers: “The Office for Students informed the Department for Education on November 11 that it has decided to open an investigation into whether the University of Sussex has met its obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech.
She added: No academic should have to fear for their personal safety, particularly as a consequence of expressing lawful views"
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@PilgrimOfTruth
@Cancelled Alice
Some very good news
Part of the Article
"AN investigation has been launched by a watchdog into the University of Sussex after an academic at the centre of a trans row was forced to quit.
The inquiry by the Office for Students will look into whether the institution met its “obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech”, Parliament was told.
The move follows the resignation of Kathleen Stock, a professor of philosophy, who was targeted by activists over her views on gender identity.
Prof Stock, who faced death threats and accusations of transphobia, which she denied, announced she would be leaving the University of Sussex last month after a horrible time
Pressed in the House of Lords over the resignation of Prof Stock, education minister Baroness Barran told peers: “The Office for Students informed the Department for Education on November 11 that it has decided to open an investigation into whether the University of Sussex has met its obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech.
She added: No academic should have to fear for their personal safety, particularly as a consequence of expressing lawful views"
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@PilgrimOfTruth
@Cancelled Alice
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Lucifer323
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19721947.amp/
Some very good news
Part of the Article
"AN investigation has been launched by a watchdog into the University of Sussex after an academic at the centre of a trans row was forced to quit.
The inquiry by the Office for Students will look into whether the institution met its “obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech”, Parliament was told.
The move follows the resignation of Kathleen Stock, a professor of philosophy, who was targeted by activists over her views on gender identity.
Prof Stock, who faced death threats and accusations of transphobia, which she denied, announced she would be leaving the University of Sussex last month after a horrible time
Pressed in the House of Lords over the resignation of Prof Stock, education minister Baroness Barran told peers: “The Office for Students informed the Department for Education on November 11 that it has decided to open an investigation into whether the University of Sussex has met its obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech.
She added: No academic should have to fear for their personal safety, particularly as a consequence of expressing lawful views"
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@PilgrimOfTruth
@Cancelled Alice
Some very good news
Part of the Article
"AN investigation has been launched by a watchdog into the University of Sussex after an academic at the centre of a trans row was forced to quit.
The inquiry by the Office for Students will look into whether the institution met its “obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech”, Parliament was told.
The move follows the resignation of Kathleen Stock, a professor of philosophy, who was targeted by activists over her views on gender identity.
Prof Stock, who faced death threats and accusations of transphobia, which she denied, announced she would be leaving the University of Sussex last month after a horrible time
Pressed in the House of Lords over the resignation of Prof Stock, education minister Baroness Barran told peers: “The Office for Students informed the Department for Education on November 11 that it has decided to open an investigation into whether the University of Sussex has met its obligations on academic freedom and freedom of speech.
She added: No academic should have to fear for their personal safety, particularly as a consequence of expressing lawful views"
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@PilgrimOfTruth
@Cancelled Alice
This is indeed very good news for other academics fearful expressing alternative views on this debate.
Original post by Alexdrake
This is indeed very good news for other academics fearful expressing alternative views on this debate.
In terms of alternative views I don't think there was anything alternative or debatable in the views of Kathleen Stoke. The major issue was a range of left-wing activists and transgender groups that embarked into a campaign of intimidation, bullying, harassment and threats, that made the academic resign from her position. The University should have ejected those individuals from their premises long time ago instead of tolerating them. The Police could have handle them with nice cautions if they want to. Both failed.
Original post by Lucifer323
In terms of alternative views I don't think there was anything alternative or debatable in the views of Kathleen Stoke. The major issue was a range of left-wing activists and transgender groups that embarked into a campaign of intimidation, bullying, harassment and threats, that made the academic resign from her position. The University should have ejected those individuals from their premises long time ago instead of tolerating them. The Police could have handle them with nice cautions if they want to. Both failed.
I agree, and the more I've read about her and this subject the more I agree.
Interesting listen, I would recommend this to anyone regarding of where there beliefs fall. Premiering now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrjLEpE6Ep4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrjLEpE6Ep4
(edited 2 years ago)
Apologies if this link has already been posted or discussed, but there's no harm in reposting it anyway. I'm part way through a groundbreaking podcast on BBC sounds called Nolan investigates . It's an extremely compelling and fascinating podcast which raises some of the thought provoking issues that Stock has been grappling with. Whatever your views on her, I think it's well worth a listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yk5mm
Still no response on how sex is not biological and/or fixed... Come on mate man wants a response lol.
Original post by Talkative Toad
Still no response on how sex is not biological and/or fixed... Come on mate man wants a response lol.
You will be waiting for very long as it seems.
However and this is the most serious aspect of such cases, these kind of attempts are used quite often to attack individuals who may state facts as well as their personal opinions based upon these facts.
Creating a situation where you actually doubt biological sex i.e put biological sex on the table for discussion and debate is the main cause of such misunderstandings and misrepresentations of others. Biological sex cannot be put on the table for debate and discussion.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/05/kathleen-stock-interview-university-sussex-transgender-headlines-2021
Kathleen Stock: ‘On social media, the important thing is to show your tribe that you have the right morals’
Several Sussex colleagues publicly denounced her on social media, although strangely, she says, not to her face. “No peer ever said to me: ‘Look, I really object to what you’re saying and I’d like to discuss it with you.’ They immediately went to Defcon 1: ‘She’s a bigot… arguing for single-sex spaces is like the Jim Crow laws [that historically enforced racial segregation in the American south].’” She remains fascinated by the performative aspects of social media debate. “The important thing is to show your tribe that you have the right morals and you could show that by saying, ‘I’m not with her.’”
Kathleen Stock: ‘On social media, the important thing is to show your tribe that you have the right morals’
Several Sussex colleagues publicly denounced her on social media, although strangely, she says, not to her face. “No peer ever said to me: ‘Look, I really object to what you’re saying and I’d like to discuss it with you.’ They immediately went to Defcon 1: ‘She’s a bigot… arguing for single-sex spaces is like the Jim Crow laws [that historically enforced racial segregation in the American south].’” She remains fascinated by the performative aspects of social media debate. “The important thing is to show your tribe that you have the right morals and you could show that by saying, ‘I’m not with her.’”
Original post by Talkative Toad
Still no response on how sex is not biological and/or fixed... Come on mate man wants a response lol.
Still no answer to this.
You will waiting for a long time to hear anything back.
Original post by Lucifer323
Still no answer to this.
You will waiting for a long time to hear anything back.
You will waiting for a long time to hear anything back.
I give up tbh
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