Mandatory vaccination

there's no actual proof, not with the new variant. shouldn't the 'vaccine' protect a vulnerable person in any event, if they are sooo effective?

i'm getting sick of this **** tbh. makes life not worth living.

there's no actual proof, not with the new variant. shouldn't the 'vaccine' protect a vulnerable person in any event, if they are sooo effective?

you do realise the vax is still in still basically in the testing phase right? they're not fda approved either. you can't even sue the vax companies if you experience severe adverse effects. so yeah, questioning their effectiveness and risks doesn't make you an anti vaxxer. but blindly following the government's advice makes you look pretty dumb.

Do you have any understanding of how viruses and vaccinations work?

Why do you put the word vaccine in inverted commas?
Thank you science for giving us vaccines to stop, minimise or control the devastating effects of
Polio, Tetanus, Flu,,Hep B, Hep A, Rubella, Hib, Measles, Whooping cough, Pneumococcal disease, Rotavirus, Mumps, Chickenpox and Diptheria.
We wouldn’t be here today without you

There is lab evidence to suggest that 3 vaccinations is effective against the omicron variant

I mean… the basis of the Astra Zeneca vaccine (for example) has been worked on for about a decade (using other corona viruses). So it is not completely proved. When you say the vaccine is not FDA approved which one are you talking about. If it’s Astra Zeneca I believe that is (in part) because they have enough of other vaccine types that they don’t need to push through a new vaccine quickly like they did the others so they won’t waste resources when they already have enough different types.

Most adverse affects people claim form the vaccine can be linked to other things, is lower than common drugs or has been disproven (such as the fertility issue). I don’t just follow government advice I read numerous peer reviewed research articles.

Mandatory vaccines? Yeah no.
Measures that pressure people into getting them (i.e. vaccine passports, requirement to travel anywhere, etc) without genuine medical exemption? Yes.

Tbf vaccines should be a basic responsibility of belonging to a society. If you don't want one, then you shouldn't be allowed all the other privileges that come with being in that society- like paying a tax, except it's a moral one that keeps your fellow being safe.

if the vaccine is so effective why are you all so scared of unvaxxed people? 😂 it makes zero sense.

It’s one of the ways how vaccines generally work. That’s how old **** like polio was eradicated and made obsolete, if the vaccine wasn’t given to as much people back then it will still continue to affect many people today. It’s also how diseases like Hepatitis A don’t kill a lot of people today either.

This topic has been much discussed in various threads on TSR. Here is a summary of the case against mandatory vaccination for Covid-19.

First, although Covid-19 is a very serious disease it is only fatal in a small number of cases (well below 1%). Most of the people who are likely to get seriously ill and hospitalised are over 60, and most of them have chosen to be vaccinated.

Second, the vaccines only offer protection against serious illness and death in the individuals who receive them. Their impact on infection and transmission is limited - especially with the new Omicron variant, against which they are only effective after 3 doses. So far, the protection only lasts a few months before another jab is needed. Therefore a vaccine mandate is an order to get jabbed over and over again.

So if the disease was deadly and the vaccines offered a high degree of efficacy (as with Smallpox, for example) there might be a better argument for making the vaccines compulsory.

The vaccine mandates in the USA have already run into serious trouble in the courts and the implementation is currently suspended. If they ever were implemented they could lead to violence on the streets. There is also the danger of fraud, with people faking vaccine cards. (This has already happened in the US).

In Austria and Greece, where fines are being proposed, wealthy people would be able to pay them in order to avoid being vaccinated but poor people would struggle - even with means testing. Austria, for example, is proposing a fine of up to €3,600 for every 3 months that a person refuses the vaccine. This is just one way in which the policy is unethical and discriminatory.

In the UK, mandatory vaccines are currently illegal under Section 45 of the Public Health (Control of Diseases) Act 1984. That would have to be repealed before there could be mandatory vaccination. It is unlikely that Parliament would agree to that. The biggest danger here is with more and more employers implementing their own mandates to bully people into being vaccinated against their wishes.

This is a well balanced, short article on why we should not copy other countries and try to impose a general vaccine mandate here. However, it does not take full account of the practical difficulties of introducing mandates in the countries that have already decided to do so. The US federal administration is already in deep trouble and I suspect the Austrian and Greek governments might eventually be forced to think again.

Why the UK shouldn’t introduce mandatory COVID vaccination
(December 6, 2021 12.00pm GMT)


https://theconversation.com/why-the-uk-shouldnt-introduce-mandatory-covid-vaccination-173179

if the vaccine is so effective why are you all so scared of unvaxxed people? 😂 it makes zero sense.

the difference is, polio vaccines actually work. with the right dose they can give you 100% protection, unlike the covid vax

The vaccine isn't going to stop people from catching COVID and transmitting it, but it does massively reduce the time you're likely to be infectious for (i.e. pass it on.) It also doesn't stop you from dying, it just minimizes the risk. This effect isn't the same in everyone either- it'll minimize it, but a vaccine can only do so much to bolster the immune system of some random 70-yo with comorbidities. The aim of the game is to get as many people vaccinated as physically possible to minimize the risk.

While most people already have the vaccine (so honestly this mandatory-vaccine nonsense is just ridiculous and unnecessary) it's necessary to limit those who are refusing it through some way, because of the character and behaviour of those people.

An old person vaccinated sitting at home has no care for vaccine passports- why would they? The clubber/partygoer, the medical professional or office worker, or the student/traveller- these are the ones who will go and mingle in socially dense spaces, and are the more at-risk ones when it comes to their tendency to spread the virus.

The well-behaved ones will have a vaccine passport, be more mindful of their surrounds, regularly test, and generally show care- they're socially responsible and recognize that society as a whole benefits from this behaviour- these are the ones not winging about vaccine passports, and the ones that understand that COVID isn't different from other pathogens out there as long as we take the time to get to a point of controlling it and fully inoculating it, and getting society adapted to it. Overall, if one of these chaps caught it, they'd be far less likely to spread it, purely by their character.

The less-behaved ones will see vaccine passports and limitations on the unvaccinated as limiting their freedom, and see it as an attack on their "human rights" or whatever other arguments you see. They'll argue COVID isn't something to worry about, and that it isn't something worth all this trouble- they'll think that the vaccinated fear the unvaccinated, or they'll argue that the economy has suffered enough. They'll go to socially dense spaces and think that since everyone is vaccinated except them, there is nothing to worry about- everyone else is clearly safe and no one would die if they caught COVID and gave it to someone vaccinated- there's no worry. They won't take precautions, they won't care.

Obviously a generalisation- there are perfectly reasonable folk who don't take the vaccine but still do all the measures they can other than this, but without a medical reason they're still not fulfilling their societal responsibility. The restrictions aren't there to force everyone to conform- they're there to get those with a lesser sense of moral responsibility in line, since these are the ones more likely to actually spread the virus, vaccine or not.

FYI to someone who thinks I'm supporting mandatory vaccination, I'm not. That's unethical. See my other post.

The vaccine isn't going to stop people from catching COVID and transmitting it, but it does massively reduce the time you're likely to be infectious for (i.e. pass it on.) It also doesn't stop you from dying, it just minimizes the risk. This effect isn't the same in everyone either- it'll minimize it, but a vaccine can only do so much to bolster the immune system of some random 70-yo with comorbidities. The aim of the game is to get as many people vaccinated as physically possible to minimize the risk.

While most people already have the vaccine (so honestly this mandatory-vaccine nonsense is just ridiculous and unnecessary) it's necessary to limit those who are refusing it through some way, because of the character and behaviour of those people.

An old person vaccinated sitting at home has no care for vaccine passports- why would they? The clubber/partygoer, the medical professional or office worker, or the student/traveller- these are the ones who will go and mingle in socially dense spaces, and are the more at-risk ones when it comes to their tendency to spread the virus.

The well-behaved ones will have a vaccine passport, be more mindful of their surrounds, regularly test, and generally show care- they're socially responsible and recognize that society as a whole benefits from this behaviour- these are the ones not winging about vaccine passports, and the ones that understand that COVID isn't different from other pathogens out there as long as we take the time to get to a point of controlling it and fully inoculating it, and getting society adapted to it. Overall, if one of these chaps caught it, they'd be far less likely to spread it, purely by their character.

The less-behaved ones will see vaccine passports and limitations on the unvaccinated as limiting their freedom, and see it as an attack on their "human rights" or whatever other arguments you see. They'll argue COVID isn't something to worry about, and that it isn't something worth all this trouble- they'll think that the vaccinated fear the unvaccinated, or they'll argue that the economy has suffered enough. They'll go to socially dense spaces and think that since everyone is vaccinated except them, there is nothing to worry about- everyone else is clearly safe and no one would die if they caught COVID and gave it to someone vaccinated- there's no worry. They won't take precautions, they won't care.

Obviously a generalisation- there are perfectly reasonable folk who don't take the vaccine but still do all the measures they can other than this, but without a medical reason they're still not fulfilling their societal responsibility. The restrictions aren't there to force everyone to conform- they're there to get those with a lesser sense of moral responsibility in line, since these are the ones more likely to actually spread the virus, vaccine or not.

FYI to someone who thinks I'm supporting mandatory vaccination, I'm not. That's unethical. See my other post.

You can still get a vaccine passport as unvaccinated tho right? Like if you have reported a negative LFT in last 48 hours/had covid in last 6 months. (I’m asking btw, not disagreeing/undermining)
I don’t see the problem with vaccine passports, but do with mandatory vaccines.

The vaccine isn't going to stop people from catching COVID and transmitting it, but it does massively reduce the time you're likely to be infectious for (i.e. pass it on.) It also doesn't stop you from dying, it just minimizes the risk. This effect isn't the same in everyone either- it'll minimize it, but a vaccine can only do so much to bolster the immune system of some random 70-yo with comorbidities. The aim of the game is to get as many people vaccinated as physically possible to minimize the risk.

While most people already have the vaccine (so honestly this mandatory-vaccine nonsense is just ridiculous and unnecessary) it's necessary to limit those who are refusing it through some way, because of the character and behaviour of those people.

An old person vaccinated sitting at home has no care for vaccine passports- why would they? The clubber/partygoer, the medical professional or office worker, or the student/traveller- these are the ones who will go and mingle in socially dense spaces, and are the more at-risk ones when it comes to their tendency to spread the virus.

The well-behaved ones will have a vaccine passport, be more mindful of their surrounds, regularly test, and generally show care- they're socially responsible and recognize that society as a whole benefits from this behaviour- these are the ones not winging about vaccine passports, and the ones that understand that COVID isn't different from other pathogens out there as long as we take the time to get to a point of controlling it and fully inoculating it, and getting society adapted to it. Overall, if one of these chaps caught it, they'd be far less likely to spread it, purely by their character.

The less-behaved ones will see vaccine passports and limitations on the unvaccinated as limiting their freedom, and see it as an attack on their "human rights" or whatever other arguments you see. They'll argue COVID isn't something to worry about, and that it isn't something worth all this trouble- they'll think that the vaccinated fear the unvaccinated, or they'll argue that the economy has suffered enough. They'll go to socially dense spaces and think that since everyone is vaccinated except them, there is nothing to worry about- everyone else is clearly safe and no one would die if they caught COVID and gave it to someone vaccinated- there's no worry. They won't take precautions, they won't care.

Obviously a generalisation- there are perfectly reasonable folk who don't take the vaccine but still do all the measures they can other than this, but without a medical reason they're still not fulfilling their societal responsibility. The restrictions aren't there to force everyone to conform- they're there to get those with a lesser sense of moral responsibility in line, since these are the ones more likely to actually spread the virus, vaccine or not.

FYI to someone who thinks I'm supporting mandatory vaccination, I'm not. That's unethical. See my other post.

my personal freedoms are being limited tho. but hey, our gov was still allowed to have a christmas party during lockdown. fun.
if i want to catch covid and die, it's none of their business. it's my body
how can anyone support mandatory vaxs? what's next, mandatory weight loss surgery for fat people bc they're putting too much strain on the nhs resources? euthanasia for alcoholics and drug addicts? where do we draw the line?

my personal freedoms are being limited tho. but hey, our gov was still allowed to have a christmas party during lockdown. fun.
if i want to catch covid and die, it's none of their business. it's my body
how can anyone support mandatory vaxs? what's next, mandatory weight loss surgery for fat people bc they're putting too much strain on the nhs resources? euthanasia for alcoholics and drug addicts? where do we draw the line?

my personal freedoms are being limited tho. but hey, our gov was still allowed to have a christmas party during lockdown. fun.
if i want to catch covid and die, it's none of their business. it's my body
how can anyone support mandatory vaxs? what's next, mandatory weight loss surgery for fat people bc they're putting too much strain on the nhs resources? euthanasia for alcoholics and drug addicts? where do we draw the line?