What do you think?
I don't understand how people do not go completely insane in a corporate setting. You are applying to a job that a trained monkey could do and yet you must take a psychometric test, answer a host of diversity questions and then maybe get an interview. You get this interview and are met with meaningless, bullsh*t questions like "tell me about a situation where you had to be x and the conclusion was y". I mean how do people put up with this tirade of corporate platitudes that seem to worsen once employed. An economy filled with Bullsh*t jobs, bullsh*t interviews, bullsh*it office politics. How can any of you partake in this strange and superficial game for any substantial period of time without losing your mind?
It saddens me that people believe they have a choice and consequently trudge onwards in this labyrinth of idiocy. It isn't slavery but if you don't do it I hope you like sleeping outside, well then that is fair. I mean what have I been born into, everyone is asleep to the fact that they will live, toil, and die putting money in the pockets of others and paying off unpayable national debts. I don't think that Washington would have anticipated that his conditions are today replicated in, "all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in".
It saddens me that people believe they have a choice and consequently trudge onwards in this labyrinth of idiocy. It isn't slavery but if you don't do it I hope you like sleeping outside, well then that is fair. I mean what have I been born into, everyone is asleep to the fact that they will live, toil, and die putting money in the pockets of others and paying off unpayable national debts. I don't think that Washington would have anticipated that his conditions are today replicated in, "all around me are wrapped in sleep. Few people know the predicament we are in".
(edited 2 years ago)
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Those at the bottom aren't slaves. It's worse than that. Whereas a slave is bought and sold once, a worker must sell themself daily and hourly under an illusion of choice. Whereas the slave only exists because a master needs it, a worker only exists because an upper class needs it and may arbitrarily change their mind.
Completely agree with what you say. Capitalism manifests itself in many forms, and however it tries to disguise itself (e.g. better working conditions, shorter hours), a group of people are always needed to fund the pockets of a few.
Would recommend taking a look at some of Rawls' Theory of Justice and Marxist theory.
Completely agree with what you say. Capitalism manifests itself in many forms, and however it tries to disguise itself (e.g. better working conditions, shorter hours), a group of people are always needed to fund the pockets of a few.
Would recommend taking a look at some of Rawls' Theory of Justice and Marxist theory.
Original post by BalooBear
Those at the bottom aren't slaves. It's worse than that. Whereas a slave is bought and sold once, a worker must sell themself daily and hourly under an illusion of choice. Whereas the slave only exists because a master needs it, a worker only exists because an upper class needs it and may arbitrarily change their mind.
Completely agree with what you say. Capitalism manifests itself in many forms, and however it tries to disguise itself (e.g. better working conditions, shorter hours), a group of people are always needed to fund the pockets of a few.
Would recommend taking a look at some of Rawls' Theory of Justice and Marxist theory.
Completely agree with what you say. Capitalism manifests itself in many forms, and however it tries to disguise itself (e.g. better working conditions, shorter hours), a group of people are always needed to fund the pockets of a few.
Would recommend taking a look at some of Rawls' Theory of Justice and Marxist theory.
I was being hyperbolic, and somewhat facetious, in my implication of slavery. Real slavery is of course a far more severe affair. In my estimation it is not any economic system that is responsible for this but, as an economist would ironically tell you, rather the unlimited wants of man.
Capitalism is the best thing we've come up with, apparently. Socialism has never worked anywhere that it has been implemented. We hear excuses for this or flat-out denials of it despite the fact that it's true. The modal excuse is that "It has never been executed correctly" and even a superficial analysis of history shows us that it is because it has been executed correctly that it has failed. Marx proved one thing and one thing only: he was no economist.
New age Karl Marx.
Original post by cleveranimal56
New age Karl Marx.
No
Original post by AVGVSTVS
No
Marl Karx
Unironically the best anti-work piece I’ve ever read. 
As for why people casually succumb into the world of work, I dunno.
As for why people casually succumb into the world of work, I dunno.
Original post by 0ptics
Unironically the best anti-work piece I’ve ever read.
As for why people casually succumb into the world of work, I dunno.
As for why people casually succumb into the world of work, I dunno.
I'm not anti-work. I am against the ever-growing amount of jobs and industries that are completely pointless and provide no meaning to people. This just happens to be exemplified by corporatism. I also believe that by allowing this problem to fester unnoticed we are creating a combustible mixture of a disillusioned people and an uncaring world. In short, I am against the erosion of meaning in our society because I believe it will be the end of us.
Original post by AVGVSTVS
I'm not anti-work. I am against the ever-growing amount of jobs and industries that are completely pointless and provide no meaning to people. This just happens to be exemplified by corporatism. I also believe that by allowing this problem to fester unnoticed we are creating a combustible mixture of a disillusioned people and an uncaring world. In short, I am against the erosion of meaning in our society because I believe it will be the end of us.
What jobs are you referring to, and don’t say corporate jobs as you’ve already established that. Also, does that mean that your argument in your OP only accounts for crap, meaningless jobs and not every job?
Original post by AVGVSTVS
I was being hyperbolic, and somewhat facetious, in my implication of slavery. Real slavery is of course a far more severe affair. In my estimation it is not any economic system that is responsible for this but, as an economist would ironically tell you, rather the unlimited wants of man.
Capitalism is the best thing we've come up with, apparently. Socialism has never worked anywhere that it has been implemented. We hear excuses for this or flat-out denials of it despite the fact that it's true. The modal excuse is that "It has never been executed correctly" and even a superficial analysis of history shows us that it is because it has been executed correctly that it has failed. Marx proved one thing and one thing only: he was no economist.
Capitalism is the best thing we've come up with, apparently. Socialism has never worked anywhere that it has been implemented. We hear excuses for this or flat-out denials of it despite the fact that it's true. The modal excuse is that "It has never been executed correctly" and even a superficial analysis of history shows us that it is because it has been executed correctly that it has failed. Marx proved one thing and one thing only: he was no economist.
This thread has been an interesting and informative read
I myself am not very knowledgable about the economic aspects of things, so neither of this is helpful.In my opinion, capitalism is definitely the best thing that we have ever came up with and it is much more "fairer" than applying full-blown socialism as the backbone of the economy. It accounts for the fact that different people will have different wants and aims, whereas 100% socialism will open up far too many questions and arguments on the concepts that lie beneath it. In practice, I think that socialism would have bred a lot more corruptions and it wouldn't have made the creative industries that we have today. Life would probably have less fun and we, as citizens, would have less freedoms in what we get to believe in. Some might argue that the latter is better since you wouldn't have discrimination as a raging issue, but there are pros and cons I suppose — it is a matter of what people tend to be alright with sacrificing and I don't think sacrificing freedom is what the Western society would ever want to give up on.
On what bred this so-called corporate world of 'slavery,' I would argue that a large portion of it is due to technologies, globalization, and definitely the fact that people seeks to make a profit behind the continuous expansion of industries/markets/companies. Even if we were to look back to the vikings, that is what their pillages seek to fulfill, isn't it? Their profits whether in monetary form or resources. So to call this a new phenomenon, is wrong in my opinion.
About why people would 'slave' away in the corporate world, there is some form of content in being told what to do and having your security that isn't as uncertain as starting out the business entirely on your own. You get money in return of your work, you get somewhere to live in, and you get food on the table. There is a lot of other worst places on Earth that anyone could land on than the corporate world if anything, although some might argue that modern day slavery and indentured servitude also exists in the corporate world as a result of capitalism growing over-proportioned than what is necessary (e.g. factory workers and miners in third-world countries
). But personally, I am alright with your regular 9-5 office jobs and sometimes those that probably consumes 17 hours of your day, sometimes.Original post by 0ptics
What jobs are you referring to, and don’t say corporate jobs as you’ve already established that. Also, does that mean that your argument in your OP only accounts for crap, meaningless jobs and not every job?
Yes, not every job is like this but my perception is that most are. Other than corporate I see it in some retail jobs, local government, management and recruiting, etc. Jobs that have meaning to them seem to be a rare thing. This part is quite subjective but doctors, soldiers, firefighters, etc seem to have meaning.
Original post by AVGVSTVS
I'm not anti-work. I am against the ever-growing amount of jobs and industries that are completely pointless and provide no meaning to people. This just happens to be exemplified by corporatism. I also believe that by allowing this problem to fester unnoticed we are creating a combustible mixture of a disillusioned people and an uncaring world. In short, I am against the erosion of meaning in our society because I believe it will be the end of us.
I beg to differ, because I don't think capitalism nor the growing of other "less important" industries are to be blamed for people 'growing' to be uncaring. Up to this day, 'care' has always been present and demonstrated by many groups of society. You have people help hide the Jews during Hitler's ethnic cleansing, you have people who help LGBTQ+ people escape life or death situations in their home countries, you have people that help refugees even when there are many who disagreed with their existence.
I think with socialism on the other hand, you indirectly end up having to need to adhere to some kind of singular mentality and system of beliefs to keep it functioning, even if there wasn't any intentions to do so. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I admit that I am not widely knowledgeable about socialism and their different types.
Original post by wifd149
I beg to differ, because I don't think capitalism nor the growing of other "less important" industries are to be blamed for people 'growing' to be uncaring. Up to this day, 'care' has always been present and demonstrated by many groups of society. You have people help hide the Jews during Hitler's ethnic cleansing, you have people who help LGBTQ+ people escape life or death situations in their home countries, you have people that help refugees even when there are many who disagreed with their existence.
I think with socialism on the other hand, you indirectly end up having to need to adhere to some kind of singular mentality and system of beliefs to keep it functioning, even if there wasn't any intentions to do so. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I admit that I am not widely knowledgeable about socialism and their different types.
I think with socialism on the other hand, you indirectly end up having to need to adhere to some kind of singular mentality and system of beliefs to keep it functioning, even if there wasn't any intentions to do so. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I admit that I am not widely knowledgeable about socialism and their different types.
I did not blame capitalism. I think you misread corporatism.
I've never answered any of the 'diversity section' type of questions. 
Never will.
Never will.
Original post by AVGVSTVS
I did not blame capitalism. I think you misread corporatism.
From what I understand, corporatism is a blend of capitalism and socialism? Corporatism basically allows the invest, selling, and whatnot, to promote business and economic growth supplemented by public policies, etc. The line draws from capitalism when taxpayers have to pay for the expense. Not that I am familiar with the whole theory.
Original post by wifd149
From what I understand, corporatism is a blend of capitalism and socialism? Corporatism basically allows the invest, selling, and whatnot, to promote business and economic growth supplemented by public policies, etc. The line draws from capitalism when taxpayers have to pay for the expense. Not that I am familiar with the whole theory.
This isn't about capitalism or socialism for me. I was using the term as a sort of encapsulation of the workings and jobs of the corporate world. I was probably unclear.
Original post by londonmyst
I've never answered any of the 'diversity section' type of questions.
Never will.
Never will.
Not going along with the diversity agenda? Don't let TSR hear you say that.
Original post by AVGVSTVS
Not going along with the diversity agenda? Don't let TSR hear you say that.
Most of TSR realised at least 20 months ago after reading my first few thousand posts in the debate & current affairs, faith and relationships forums.
this is not really a chat thread, moved this to a more relevant section 
The only psychometric test that I’ve ever taken was for a tiny company with about 3 employees. I later found out that the owner was a complete lunatic, (eg. had a meltdown when an employee changed their browser homepage).
I’ve worked in very large organisations since graduating and none have ever used them. I wonder if it’s more prevalent in some sectors than others?
With regards to work being menial, a lot of people enjoy some element of that. It’s certainly less stressful than being ‘on it’ all day. I’ve often joked that most of my career has involved moving data to and from spreadsheets. I suppose the point is that everyone enjoys different things.
Certainly you do have to play the game a bit to get on, but the benefits of being involved in the system for most people are that they’re reasonably safe, reasonably well and reasonably rich.
I’ve worked in very large organisations since graduating and none have ever used them. I wonder if it’s more prevalent in some sectors than others?
With regards to work being menial, a lot of people enjoy some element of that. It’s certainly less stressful than being ‘on it’ all day. I’ve often joked that most of my career has involved moving data to and from spreadsheets. I suppose the point is that everyone enjoys different things.
Certainly you do have to play the game a bit to get on, but the benefits of being involved in the system for most people are that they’re reasonably safe, reasonably well and reasonably rich.
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