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Are Ashkenazi Jews the most intelligent ethnic group?
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I think it's the wortk ethic Judaism encourages (demands?).
Salastico7
I think it's the wortk ethic Judaism encourages (demands?).
Not really... but watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFL0w1ruiCM - and picture the same but Jewish parents Lol!
I don't see any reason why not. Intelligence would seem to be innate in many respects, which certainly suggests a genetic component (current research into this is ongoing). Though people say otherwise, ethnic differences in IQ have been reliably observed for quite a while now (see McinTosh, weird spelling I know). IQ tests satisfy any scientific measure of reliability, validity you'd like to apply to them.
To say it is 'cultural/social', I think is rather naive. Pretty much any aspect of your behaviour, physiology etc is affected by a bio-environmental interaction. Very little is fully attributable to either realm so to speak.
A before anyone starts getting their panties in a twist and calling me 'racist', my ethnic group would be pretty far down the pecking order of IQ averages!
Their are so many reasons for group differences such as this, and I personally find it all very interesting.
To say it is 'cultural/social', I think is rather naive. Pretty much any aspect of your behaviour, physiology etc is affected by a bio-environmental interaction. Very little is fully attributable to either realm so to speak.
A before anyone starts getting their panties in a twist and calling me 'racist', my ethnic group would be pretty far down the pecking order of IQ averages!
Their are so many reasons for group differences such as this, and I personally find it all very interesting.
tehjonny
Their are so many reasons for group differences such as this, and I personally find it all very interesting.
Their are so many reasons for group differences such as this, and I personally find it all very interesting.
Same here.
Thing is people can find genetic explainations unfulfilling since they partly infringe upon the idea that anyone can succeed - and that the reason for attainment is entirely due to effort, beit on their part or their parents. Genetics, to me, always seems to give the impression of life being set out from birth and that can be rather unsettling from a personal point of view.
When you get past that, there's no reason to entirely rule it out, although there are probably several factors at play.
Bill Shakespeare
Same here.
Thing is people can find genetic explainations unfulfilling since they partly infringe upon the idea that anyone can succeed - and that the reason for attainment is entirely due to effort, beit on their part or their parents. Genetics, to me, always seems to give the impression of life being set out from birth and that can be rather unsettling from a personal point of view.
When you get past that, there's no reason to entirely rule it out, although there are probably several factors at play.
Thing is people can find genetic explainations unfulfilling since they partly infringe upon the idea that anyone can succeed - and that the reason for attainment is entirely due to effort, beit on their part or their parents. Genetics, to me, always seems to give the impression of life being set out from birth and that can be rather unsettling from a personal point of view.
When you get past that, there's no reason to entirely rule it out, although there are probably several factors at play.
Yes, I think this idea of pre-determination is what turns people off from genetic explanations. Ultimately, genetics decide a great deal about you physically. Why should they not also have an affect on your cognition, personality, intelligence? Sporting attainment is most certainly not solely down to personal effort, so why should academic success be?
ypo
OK I'm sure this has been discussed on here a hundred times before but I'm new, so try not lynch me if I'm resuscitating a dead debate.
Anyway, cutting to the chase, I observed in the US that Jews are extremely overrepresented in top academia. Even here in the UK where Jews are far less numerous, Jews still seem to punch way above their weight academically. According to friends it's the same in France and Russia. And it doesn't take much googling to back up that observation.
Apparently, despite accounting for only about 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population, Jews have accounted for 23% of all individual Nobel Laureates worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and 37% of all US recipients during the same period. In Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. In Mathematics, Jews make up 25% of all Field Medalists and astoundingly about a half of world chess champions. I could go on an on, but I think you get the point.
Anyway, my question: realistically, what do you think accounts for this phenomenal academic achievement? Is this just a fluke? Environment-related? Or are genetic factors at play here?
Anyway, cutting to the chase, I observed in the US that Jews are extremely overrepresented in top academia. Even here in the UK where Jews are far less numerous, Jews still seem to punch way above their weight academically. According to friends it's the same in France and Russia. And it doesn't take much googling to back up that observation.
Apparently, despite accounting for only about 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population, Jews have accounted for 23% of all individual Nobel Laureates worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and 37% of all US recipients during the same period. In Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. In Mathematics, Jews make up 25% of all Field Medalists and astoundingly about a half of world chess champions. I could go on an on, but I think you get the point.
Anyway, my question: realistically, what do you think accounts for this phenomenal academic achievement? Is this just a fluke? Environment-related? Or are genetic factors at play here?
It's because they've been ****** over continually for thousands of years. They are part of a vast diaspora, almost nomadic in the sense they haven't had a national, boundaried, landmass (till 1948 - oh dear). This has inculcated an insatiable desire for self-creation and success, simply because they had nothing else.
And yes I've never met a dull Jew.
No.
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
The "Jews" in question are western, and the last few centuries have been dominated by Westerners in science, technology, economy and politics. The dominance has been in steady decline for the last few decades and in all likelihoods is set to decline further.
The point would seem moot in that case.
Nobel prizes are not indications of intelligence in itself, as many other factors affect the outcome. It's a Western award handed out to Westerners or similarly oriented persons. Same is true for Fields Medals which are awarded quadrennially (spelling?).
You can find other similar examples.
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
The "Jews" in question are western, and the last few centuries have been dominated by Westerners in science, technology, economy and politics. The dominance has been in steady decline for the last few decades and in all likelihoods is set to decline further.
The point would seem moot in that case.
Nobel prizes are not indications of intelligence in itself, as many other factors affect the outcome. It's a Western award handed out to Westerners or similarly oriented persons. Same is true for Fields Medals which are awarded quadrennially (spelling?).
You can find other similar examples.
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
maths-enthusiast
No.
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
The "Jews" in question are western, and the last few centuries have been dominated by Westerners in science, technology, economy and politics. The dominance has been in steady decline for the last few decades and in all likelihoods is set to decline further.
The point would seem moot in that case.
Nobel prizes are not indications of intelligence in itself, as many other factors affect the outcome. It's a Western award handed out to Westerners or similarly oriented persons. Same is true for Fields Medals which are awarded quadrennially (spelling?).
You can find other similar examples.
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
The "Jews" in question are western, and the last few centuries have been dominated by Westerners in science, technology, economy and politics. The dominance has been in steady decline for the last few decades and in all likelihoods is set to decline further.
The point would seem moot in that case.
Nobel prizes are not indications of intelligence in itself, as many other factors affect the outcome. It's a Western award handed out to Westerners or similarly oriented persons. Same is true for Fields Medals which are awarded quadrennially (spelling?).
You can find other similar examples.
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
I wouldn't underestimate Israeli innovation were I you, but otherwise true. Although I've never seen an unintelligent person win a nobel prize.
maths-enthusiast
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
There are Jews in countries as far away as Ethiopia, India and Morocco and China. No offence, you hardly hear about them (nor should you; just let them live peacefully)
I specifically referred to Ashkenazi Jews.
maths-enthusiast
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
Certainly the "Israeli" population doesn't support the original question's thesis.
Ashkenazi Jews are a minority in Israel. Still, this decade alone Israel has produced 6 Nobel Laureates (incidentally all Ashkenazi). Not exactly a small feat for a nation smaller in size than London...
Bateman
but also, he nobel prize, same as the oscar, is given to westerners.
Do you really think that? Forgetting about the Nobel prizes in Peace and Literature, you don't think the prize is awarded to those that have made a real difference in the field, regardless of nationality or ethnic origin? If that's your logic, Japan sure doesn't seem to have done badly considering.
Anyway back to the topic, this is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence
I think there is evidence that there could be genetic reason for a higher IQ or some description of higher intelligence.
Simple fact is, is that even though there are cultural factors, I think the level to which Jews haved reached the top of their chosen fields (between 20-30 times higher is proportional to their population) suggests that there is more than hard work at play.
I dont believe that good grades just come from hard work, and definately not getting to the top! Natural, in built skill is required that you literally have to be born with. Work just helps you tap into that intelligence, it does not create it.
So yes, I think atleast 3/4 genetic, and 1/4 hard work.
Simple fact is, is that even though there are cultural factors, I think the level to which Jews haved reached the top of their chosen fields (between 20-30 times higher is proportional to their population) suggests that there is more than hard work at play.
I dont believe that good grades just come from hard work, and definately not getting to the top! Natural, in built skill is required that you literally have to be born with. Work just helps you tap into that intelligence, it does not create it.
So yes, I think atleast 3/4 genetic, and 1/4 hard work.
Well throughout history Jews tend to be the merchantile bourgoisie class. Stuff like this stays in the family, particularly the tendency to go onto higher education.
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