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Grammar Schools are Elitist?
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Did all of you take these tests?
I was a smart kid, but I hadn't even heard of them until recently.
I was a smart kid, but I hadn't even heard of them until recently.
king's?
im all for grammar schools - the system was good. But there were problems, now we have gone completely the other way.
If i was in power id have a 11-14 comprehensive where everyone went to. Then a 14-19 vocational college, then a 14-19 academic college. The problem with the grammar school before was 1)the tested to early, and often depended on quality of primary school education and 2) If people went to the secondary mods they were looked down on - never going to acheive anything.
But britain needs your bricklayers, your plumbers you hairdressers your...... But for some reason people tend to look down on those as career choices. We need to improve public perception on these careers.
And Testing at 11 out of primary school is rediculous - testing at 14 after a joint education for 3 years would be a much better system.
In this system pupils would get a fair well rounded education suited to their abilities and needs.
If i was in power id have a 11-14 comprehensive where everyone went to. Then a 14-19 vocational college, then a 14-19 academic college. The problem with the grammar school before was 1)the tested to early, and often depended on quality of primary school education and 2) If people went to the secondary mods they were looked down on - never going to acheive anything.
But britain needs your bricklayers, your plumbers you hairdressers your...... But for some reason people tend to look down on those as career choices. We need to improve public perception on these careers.
And Testing at 11 out of primary school is rediculous - testing at 14 after a joint education for 3 years would be a much better system.
In this system pupils would get a fair well rounded education suited to their abilities and needs.
as i keep saying...there is a 13+, an 11+ and, effectively, a 16+.
SiaSiaSia
1) around 50% of our year recieved no tuition, or about 5 lessons prior to the exam to basically say what verbal reasoning was
2) There are a range of different people in my school - yes there are some middle class, but quite a lot are lower, tbh
3) Not really, I know a girl who got 11A*s and lots of others who did better than me at the comprehensive I would've gone to had I not passed the 11+
also: you wouldn't have gone to a grammar school for sixth form unless you'd passed an allocated entrance exam such as the 11+, 12+, 13+ etc. you're in a sixth form allocated area of a grammar school but apparently you can't say you're an actual grammar school student: only the people that passed an exam to get in and carried on to the sixth form can safely say they're in a "grammar school"
2) There are a range of different people in my school - yes there are some middle class, but quite a lot are lower, tbh
3) Not really, I know a girl who got 11A*s and lots of others who did better than me at the comprehensive I would've gone to had I not passed the 11+
also: you wouldn't have gone to a grammar school for sixth form unless you'd passed an allocated entrance exam such as the 11+, 12+, 13+ etc. you're in a sixth form allocated area of a grammar school but apparently you can't say you're an actual grammar school student: only the people that passed an exam to get in and carried on to the sixth form can safely say they're in a "grammar school"
I'd like to make it clear I'm in favour of current grammar schools I'm just pointing out that one has to acknowledge that they're not some kind of perfect system based entirely on academic ability as some people would naively like to think. To a great extend they are but since we don't live in a perfect world they can't possibly be.
I'm not suggesting that everyone, or even a large percentage of people are tutored. I'm just pointing out that, even if only theoretically, money can help some people 'abuse the system' as it were.
I'm also not suggesting everyone is middle class as i have said before... I know this, there were many other 'lower', as you put it, people at my school too. I'm just saying that people are more likely to come from better backgrounds due to parental aspirations. Again, note 'more likely' not everyone.
As for my third point it doesn't apply to everyone but i've spoken to quite a few people about it and lots agree with me and it's a common gripe amongst teachers in comprehensives. But still my comp should have done more to help me whether grammars exist or not. The quality of teacher in all schools should aspire to be equal even if the kids are brighter in some schools.
I'm presuming you mean by 'apparently you can't say you're an actual grammar school student' that you think I'm not an actual grammar school student since I never said anything like that, but I'm unsure as the sentence doesn't quite make sense. Saying I didn't go to a grammar because I never took an exam is utterly silly. I was originally going to join halfway through year ten and I wouldn't have had to take an exam. Are you seriously suggesting that the girl sat next to me in a lesson who'd taken the eleven plus was in a grammar school whilst I an other people who joined later but not at a point where there was an exam, weren't? Laughable I'm afraid. Plymouth city council wouldn't agree with you either since I got a small scholarship for uni reserved only for grammar school students.
im in my last year at grammar school (year 13), its a single sex girls school with boys in the 6th form.
tbh, the past two years have been distracting, with a lot of the boys and girls joining the 6th form coming from the comprehensive schools.
yes they are clever enough, but its a different style of learning. it used ot be 'do this, that..' and we would do it. now teachers spend half the time talkin over pupils
tbh, the past two years have been distracting, with a lot of the boys and girls joining the 6th form coming from the comprehensive schools.
yes they are clever enough, but its a different style of learning. it used ot be 'do this, that..' and we would do it. now teachers spend half the time talkin over pupils
SiaSiaSia
1)
also: you wouldn't have gone to a grammar school for sixth form unless you'd passed an allocated entrance exam such as the 11+, 12+, 13+ etc. you're in a sixth form allocated area of a grammar school but apparently you can't say you're an actual grammar school student: only the people that passed an exam to get in and carried on to the sixth form can safely say they're in a "grammar school"
also: you wouldn't have gone to a grammar school for sixth form unless you'd passed an allocated entrance exam such as the 11+, 12+, 13+ etc. you're in a sixth form allocated area of a grammar school but apparently you can't say you're an actual grammar school student: only the people that passed an exam to get in and carried on to the sixth form can safely say they're in a "grammar school"
- Wrong. At my school students are allowed to transfer into our sixth form if they have achieved at at least 6 A's at GCSE. They don't have to have taken any 11+. 13+ or 1000+ or anything like that. Im suspecting the person you qutoed had similar entrance requirements for her current sixth form.
aforalice
I'd like to make it clear I'm in favour of current grammar schools I'm just pointing out that one has to acknowledge that they're not some kind of perfect system based entirely on academic ability as some people would naively like to think. To a great extend they are but since we don't live in a perfect world they can't possibly be.
I knew you were in favour already -confused-
aforalice
I'm not suggesting that everyone, or even a large percentage of people are tutored. I'm just pointing out that, even if only theoretically, money can help some people 'abuse the system' as it were.
I'm not suggesting that everyone, or even a large percentage of people are tutored. I'm just pointing out that, even if only theoretically, money can help some people 'abuse the system' as it were.
Yesssssssss, I understood that point as well :P
aforalice
I'm also not suggesting everyone is middle class as i have said before... I know this, there were many other 'lower', as you put it, people at my school too. I'm just saying that people are more likely to come from better backgrounds due to parental aspirations. Again, note 'more likely' not everyone.
I'm also not suggesting everyone is middle class as i have said before... I know this, there were many other 'lower', as you put it, people at my school too. I'm just saying that people are more likely to come from better backgrounds due to parental aspirations. Again, note 'more likely' not everyone.
Hmm, I can see where you're coming from - I just said before that in my case it isn't "more" likely.
aforalice
As for my third point it doesn't apply to everyone but i've spoken to quite a few people about it and lots agree with me and it's a common gripe amongst teachers in comprehensives. But still my comp should have done more to help me whether grammars exist or not. The quality of teacher in all schools should aspire to be equal even if the kids are brighter in some schools.
As for my third point it doesn't apply to everyone but i've spoken to quite a few people about it and lots agree with me and it's a common gripe amongst teachers in comprehensives. But still my comp should have done more to help me whether grammars exist or not. The quality of teacher in all schools should aspire to be equal even if the kids are brighter in some schools.
MMmm.
aforalice
As for saying I didn't go to a grammar because I never took an exam that is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard. I was originally going to join halfway through year ten and I wouldn't have had to take an exam. Are you seriously suggesting that the girl sat next to me in a lesson who'd taken the eleven plus was in a grammar school whilst I an other people who joined later but not at a point where there was an exam, weren't? Laughable I'm afraid. Plymouth city council wouldn't agree with you either since I got a small scholarship for uni reserved only for grammar school students.
As for saying I didn't go to a grammar because I never took an exam that is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard. I was originally going to join halfway through year ten and I wouldn't have had to take an exam. Are you seriously suggesting that the girl sat next to me in a lesson who'd taken the eleven plus was in a grammar school whilst I an other people who joined later but not at a point where there was an exam, weren't? Laughable I'm afraid. Plymouth city council wouldn't agree with you either since I got a small scholarship for uni reserved only for grammar school students.
Your face is laughable.
Hahahahahaha not really.
But hey, that's just what my teacher [cleverest man in the world; been on university challenge, went to oxbridge, blabla] said. I probably didn't write it properly like he intended, I'm rubbish at regurgitating stuff!
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Gremlins
Ooooh. Snap. What an unbelievably perceptive, apt, witty, and totally reasonable response.
Yes. Grammar schools are elitist. I go to one, and it's packed to the brim with disproportionately rich kids. Poor and stupid are generally considered by the vast majority of people here to mean the same thing
And I doubt, really, that it's helped any of us academically to be there.
Yes. Grammar schools are elitist. I go to one, and it's packed to the brim with disproportionately rich kids. Poor and stupid are generally considered by the vast majority of people here to mean the same thing
And I doubt, really, that it's helped any of us academically to be there.I went to a grammar school and the vast majority of them were very well off. To see how many people passed for free meals which people living on a certain salary are eligible for it, like below £15 grand a year. Only 6/7 people in the entire school had free meals out of 600/800.
Which is a vast contrast to my old primary school in which half of the people had free meals. It's very obvious that the more well off you are, the more likely you will have parents that encourage you in your education in which is why more kids at grammar schools happen to have parents who are rich.
.x.--Lou--.x.
- Wrong. At my school students are allowed to transfer into our sixth form if they have achieved at at least 6 A's at GCSE. They don't have to have taken any 11+. 13+ or 1000+ or anything like that. Im suspecting the person you qutoed had similar entrance requirements for her current sixth form.
- Wrong. At my school students are allowed to transfer into our sixth form if they have achieved at at least 6 A's at GCSE. They don't have to have taken any 11+. 13+ or 1000+ or anything like that. Im suspecting the person you qutoed had similar entrance requirements for her current sixth form.
Ahh yeah, that was my argument against my RE teacher (i was like: "Gcses are an exam") but apparently it's because it's not internal or direct to the school or something. Idk.... =P as i said in my last quote I haven't really explained what he meant properly, and I'm rubbish at rewording things
I think it's a bit silly how there are only grammar schools in some areas, which means that location, rather than academic ability, is more of a determinant in accessing them. I think all that stuff about late developers is a bit rubbish really though, as at my school, for instance, the people I'm in top sets with are pretty much the same people that I was in top sets with in Year 7
SiaSiaSia
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Eh now Im confused too! I know what you mean about the private grammars I know someone who goes to one but what do you mean by Essex is the only place with grammar schools??
There are ones all over the country..SiaSiaSia
I knew you were in favour already -confused-
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Again
, Essex Isn't the only place. I attend a Grammar School that definately isn't in Essex that I pay nothing for what so ever. There is also about 5 more grammar schools around me, no where near essex, that are completely non-fee paying.aforalice
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Eh now Im confused too! I know what you mean about the private grammars I know someone who goes to one but what do you mean by Essex is the only place with grammar schools??
There are ones all over the country..Yeah that confused me too, Kent has grammar schools and I never paid mine...
blahbloo
I went to a grammar school and the vast majority of them were very well off. To see how many people passed for free meals which people living on a certain salary are eligible for it, like below £15 grand a year. Only 6/7 people in the entire school had free meals out of 600/800. Which is a vast contrast to my old primary school in which half of the people had free meals.
Which is a vast contrast to my old primary school in which half of the people had free meals. Yep, i think that some people who went to grammar school are just too naive to notice this mostly as they don't have any point of comparison except primary schools when they were too young to notice. In my experience the vast majority weren't really rich toffs or anything at my old grammar but just sort of average or a bit middle class compared to my comp were the majority were really working class, had free schools meals etc
Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general
Proof that grammars do not actually make more intelligent than you would be otherwise?
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