Grammar Schools are Elitist?

I knew you were in favour already -confused-



Yesssssssss, I understood that point as well :P




Hmm, I can see where you're coming from - I just said before that in my case it isn't "more" likely.



MMmm.




Your face is laughable.
Hahahahahaha not really.
But hey, that's just what my teacher [cleverest man in the world; been on university challenge, went to oxbridge, blabla] said. I probably didn't write it properly like he intended, I'm rubbish at regurgitating stuff!

Oh and Essex is the only place where they have "grammar" schools - the rest are private schools in which you sit an exam which they kept the title of a grammar school (i think it was some thing in the 1980s when they abolished it?) like manchester grammar - you pay but do an exam, so it's technically private.
I suppose I was thinking more on a term in Essex grammar schools than in general

Of course they're elitist...
Some people rather like elitism.

You could go to a comprehensive and meet real people. However, you might run the risk of having poor teachers, low expectations and constant disruption, failing your exams as a result...

I thought it was more common for grammars to be state?

Nah, the state grammar system is the fairest form of education. It means that people who are brighter academically get an education that is best suited for them whereas people who get on better in more vocational systems can go to a high school and get educated in a way best suited for them.

Of course, the system isn't perfect as idiotic parents put pressure on their children in the eleven plus and pay for tutors therefore forcing their offspring into a school where they may struggle.

Grammars aren't really elitist as they take people in based on academic ability, not social or racial background. Also they are great fun because they lump the smartest and most arrogant members of the youth population into one building to reek sweet, sweet havoc.

they have entry tests, but contary to what they say, most people who are successful have had tutoring for how to pass the exams, which is why do you only hear middle class accents there. They take the best students and the middle classes away from the comprehensives and generally they're just not fair, as are private schools really.

Saying that, if I had kids I'd do my best to get them into a grammer school or pay for private because with children I guess principles go out of the window.

Source about the tutoring? My experience is the complete opposite of that. I don't know anyone who received tutoring.

Source about the tutoring? My experience is the complete opposite of that. I don't know anyone who received tutoring.

I'd like to know about the source as well - I do know some people who had tutoring but it's a very, very, small proportion - about 5%?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7778608.stm - not really statistic but hey

Basically
1)Money can give you an advantage because some people pay for tutors to get their averagely intelligent children to pass the 11+.
2)They can be somewhat socially eleitist since middle class parents are more likely to have the kind of aspirations for their children that will push them into taking the entrace exams.
3) They can damage comprehensive schools by creaming off what would have been their best students.

But then again they're great schools. I went to a grammar for 6th form and loved it after despising my comp. I would never be at the uni I am now if I'd stayed or would have the great friends I do, so in a way I owe grammars a lot so I can't find it in me to criticise them too much. But I can also see their downsides since I've seen both sides of the fence... it's naive to suggest they're faultless.

Definition of elite: a group or class of persons enjoying superior intellectual or social or economic status (source)

So yes, they are. You need to be of a certain intellectual standard in order to gain admittance to grammar schools. That's what makes them grammar schools. If this wasn't the case, they wouldn't be grammar schools.