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Parents withdraw kids from LGBT history lesssons.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160067/Parents-face-court-action-removing-children-gay-history-lessons.html
First off, I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about the ethics of homosexuality.
How much control should parents have over what is taught in school?
How much is this true? Should parents have the right to withdraw their children from any lessons that they disagree with? Be it religious education, sex education, learning about LGBT people, the holocaust, evolution?
If they should, then what gives them the right? When they sent their child to a school, they basically entered into and agreement saying that the school could educate their child as the school saw fit. If they object that much, they can always have the child homeschooled.
Also, what do you think these parents are scared of that will happen to their children if the learn that 'some people are gay and that is OK'?
First off, I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about the ethics of homosexuality.
How much control should parents have over what is taught in school?
Norman Wells, director of the Family Education Trust, said: ‘It is a fundamental principle of education law that children must be educated in accordance with the wishes of their parents.
How much is this true? Should parents have the right to withdraw their children from any lessons that they disagree with? Be it religious education, sex education, learning about LGBT people, the holocaust, evolution?
If they should, then what gives them the right? When they sent their child to a school, they basically entered into and agreement saying that the school could educate their child as the school saw fit. If they object that much, they can always have the child homeschooled.
Also, what do you think these parents are scared of that will happen to their children if the learn that 'some people are gay and that is OK'?
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I think this is somewhat understandable although perhaps difficult to justify. It largely relates to the mystery of whether or not sexuality can be influenced by social and cultural norms. I've seen people who are and those who are not so parents deciding to remove their impressionable children from an environment where same-gender intercourse is "okay" is not surprising at all.
I don't think that these were age appropriate lessons for primary school kids. Secondary school fine, but not little kids.
Actually, I don't object in this case to the fact that parents chose to withdraw children from the LGBT lessons. Had it been in a secondary school, then my view would be the opposite, but there is a lot of parental involvement in the various aspects of primary education and if the parent genuinely believes that their child is not yet of an appropriate age to learn about the topic, then so be it for now.
This point made by the father interviewed is hardly unfair: it doesn't state his views on homosexuality, just that it may be difficult to explain to eight or nine year-old children. Neither is he necessarily saying that he wishes to conceal the topic from them, for some parents simply want to utilise their own methods of explanation rather than what the school offers.
I know it isn't wholly relevant to the discussion point, but I'm most likely not alone in thinking that this sounds quite dire and overly contrived as well. Yes, I support awareness of homosexuality among children, but it really doesn't take a whole week of lessons in primary school to get the point across. The topic will inevitably come up sometimes and all it requires is for teachers to convey that some people are attracted to members of the same sex instead, and that it is normal. Labouring the point with fairytales is ridiculously excessive, and not exactly an accurate representation of homosexuality either.
‘I found it difficult to explain topics such as homosexual relationships at such a young age.’
This point made by the father interviewed is hardly unfair: it doesn't state his views on homosexuality, just that it may be difficult to explain to eight or nine year-old children. Neither is he necessarily saying that he wishes to conceal the topic from them, for some parents simply want to utilise their own methods of explanation rather than what the school offers.
One story covered in a lesson was King and King, a fairytale about a prince who turns down three princesses before falling in love with one of their brothers.
Another book, And Tango Makes Three, features two male penguins, Roy and Silo, who fall in love at a New York zoo.
Another book, And Tango Makes Three, features two male penguins, Roy and Silo, who fall in love at a New York zoo.
I know it isn't wholly relevant to the discussion point, but I'm most likely not alone in thinking that this sounds quite dire and overly contrived as well. Yes, I support awareness of homosexuality among children, but it really doesn't take a whole week of lessons in primary school to get the point across. The topic will inevitably come up sometimes and all it requires is for teachers to convey that some people are attracted to members of the same sex instead, and that it is normal. Labouring the point with fairytales is ridiculously excessive, and not exactly an accurate representation of homosexuality either.
Wildebeest
The topic will inevitably come up sometimes and all it requires is for teachers to convey that some people are attracted to members of the opposite sex instead, and that it is normal
The same sex, surely?
Teaching primary school children about this is reprehensible. They have plenty of time to learn about it later in life without schools promoting this. I think if people are strictly religious and their religion disagrees with homosexuality it's insensitive to thrust it upon their children. It's the right of the parents at the end of the day.
The other thing is, what next? Children learning about safe anal sex when they're 7?
The other thing is, what next? Children learning about safe anal sex when they're 7?
croissantfever
If they should, then what gives them the right? When they sent their child to a school, they basically entered into and agreement saying that the school could educate their child as the school saw fit. If they object that much, they can always have the child homeschooled.
Furthermore I am all for home schooling but it's hardly practical. I don't particularly care if people withdraw children from lessons: all the more resources for the other children, really. At the end of the day you can discover everything about the world your parents don't want you to know with an internet connection, google and wiki.
Disgusting. The teachers should be sent to jail.
croissantfever
How much is this true?
I'm not sure, but it might be worth having a look at Protocol No.1 to the European Convention on Human Rights, Article 2 of which reads:
The Council of Europe
Right to education
No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.
Right to education
No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.
I remember my primary school doing sex education and stuff at the age of 9.fire2burn
No I knew what a condom was and how it differed from a party balloon that's for sure. We did the whole in's and out's of it (no pun intended) back then. And amazingly none of us were pregnant at 13 so must've done some good.
Oh that type of sex education. Well these kids are nine. I don't understand the need to indoctrinate children with the history of homosexuality. You either accept homosexuality or you don't, but irrespective of that if you're a heterosexual you will not understand the attraction. So what exactly are these classes for other than to say "there are gay people"? Parents of children as young as this are worried that their sexuality will be unintentionally influenced at such an impressionable age.
Meus
Oh that type of sex education. Well these kids are nine. I don't understand the need to indoctrinate children with the history of homosexuality. You either accept homosexuality or you don't, but if you're a heterosexual you will not understand the attraction. So what exactly are these classes for other than to say "there are gay people"?
It's about the age people start using sexual/racial slurs I certainly remember by year 5 kids on the playground used 'faggot' as an insult. Guess it's to educate kids so they don't grow up with the blind hatred that their parents potentially have for gay people.
I remember having a school assembly on it way back when in the 90's some time around year 5 or 6. The headmaster basically explained why you don't go round calling gay people faggots or anything else equally demeaning.
Seems like the Daily Mail is just blowing it all out of proportion and making it out to be something new, when it's been around for years. They just want something to moan about.
I agree with the parents, children do not need to be exposed to the complications of life so early.
Let them play, explore and learn about the more trivial things in life, explore the wonders of science, learn how to read and write and do basic maths and explore the environment that they live in.
I.e. Science, Geography, English, Maths and History.
That is all a 8/9 year old needs to know! It is preparation for secondary school and learning the fundamentals, they do not need to know the ins and outs of sex and especially the complications with gay sex.
Keep things simple and fun, because it just gets boring when you get to secondary school.
EDIT: I forgot to say that they need to express themselves in arts and crafts as well.
Let them play, explore and learn about the more trivial things in life, explore the wonders of science, learn how to read and write and do basic maths and explore the environment that they live in.
I.e. Science, Geography, English, Maths and History.
That is all a 8/9 year old needs to know! It is preparation for secondary school and learning the fundamentals, they do not need to know the ins and outs of sex and especially the complications with gay sex.
Keep things simple and fun, because it just gets boring when you get to secondary school.
EDIT: I forgot to say that they need to express themselves in arts and crafts as well.
Parents should have the final say over a child's education, not the state. If I was a parent, I'd certainly let my kids into the LGBT lessons, and be very happy for them to learn about gays 'n ****, but if a parent doesn't want their kids to learn about it, we should respect their stupid decision. A state which tells people what they must and must not learn is not a thing I want to see.
tommm
Parents should have the final say over a child's education, not the state. If I was a parent, I'd certainly let my kids into the LGBT lessons, and be very happy for them to learn about gays 'n ****, but if a parent doesn't want their kids to learn about it, we should respect their stupid decision. A state which tells people what they must and must not learn is not a thing I want to see.
croissantfever
Should parents have the right to withdraw their children from any lessons that they disagree with?
Yes. Indeed, any other system is unworkable since parents ultimately have every right to withdraw their child from the school.
Be it religious education, sex education, learning about LGBT people, the holocaust, evolution?
It's hardly unique to that: I got taught quite a bit about politics largely from left-wing teachers who were trendy in 60s and 70s, and distorted facts with impunity. Since they were also probably the steward for their union, of course, the school was impotent to act.
In these cases, it's for the students and parents to do something. We, notably, didn't - we just ridiculed them.
If they should, then what gives them the right? When they sent their child to a school, they basically entered into and agreement saying that the school could educate their child as the school saw fit.
Nope, you've just made that up.
If they object that much, they can always have the child homeschooled.
Indeed, or enrolled in another school. But that's an extreme response.
Yuffie
Teaching primary school children about this is reprehensible. They have plenty of time to learn about it later in life without schools promoting this. I think if people are strictly religious and their religion disagrees with homosexuality it's insensitive to thrust it upon their children. It's the right of the parents at the end of the day.
The other thing is, what next? Children learning about safe anal sex when they're 7?
The other thing is, what next? Children learning about safe anal sex when they're 7?
Why not? I'm very sure you did mention something about "Playing Doctor" the other day as an example of the fact that they were ready to participate in intercourse!
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