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Vegetarians? oh and im sorry if there are any other similar threads out there

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Suri

I just dont understand the concept of being a vegetarian! To me, eating meat is natural (no disrespect to vegetarians - plz dont be offended) but if other animals in the wild can kill animals and eat them, why cant we? i mean, humans eat both plants and animals (hence to the term omnivore!) thats how we are created. I am fully against animal testing, but eating other animals? not so much....and that reminds me...why is eating fish considered ok amongst some vegetarians?

Why does something being "natural" make it good? Driving around in cars, living in heated houses and taking showers are all unnatural - yet we have no qualms about doing them.

Of course animals kill other animals, though I would like to think that we have progressed somewhat beyond barbarism. Black widow spiders eat their mates: but I don't go round eating people.

My personal reasoning is as follows:

1) The meat industry causes an enormous amount of suffering.
2) The extra well-being I would gain from eating meat would be absolutely minimal (arguably negative on health statistics).
3) I believe that human interests are worth considering. It then follows that animal interests are worth considering, as it is not possible to segregate humans down into a well-defined group, as we are animals and take all our characteristics from them; and furthermore the notion of humanity is consequently evolving as evolution runs its course.
4) I therefore consider it worthwhile to make a tiny sacrifice on my part, to negate a great deal of suffering.

If other people consider that the well-being they gain from eating meat outweighs the negative consequences of doing so, that is up to them, and that is justifiable on principle.

But the arguments that: 1) animals do it, 2) its natural, 3) they are only animals, who cares????; are all completely untenable.

Reply 21

jacketpotato

n.b. the above is also why it is not necessarily a contradiction for people to refuse to eat meat but still eat fish. There are no 'absolutes' here, people have to make decisions taking everything into account. A lot of fish have a very low level of understanding and sentience, and simply do not get stressed and upset in the same way that chickens, pigs or cows kept in tiny stalls do (though signs of stress have been observed in fish). It is thereforen perfectly possible for people to feel that the well-being they would get from eating fish outweighs the negative consequences of doing so, even if they don't feel that this is true in the case of land animals.

Reply 22

SoundDevastation

jodElite

I don't see there is a reason to eat meat. We don't NEED to eat meat to survive, so why kill innocent animals.

this. we dont need meat, or eggs or milk. So the choice is exploiting animals or not exploit animals... why chose the former?

Reply 23

GazzyG

I like how the OP was only asking a question out of curiosity, yet a lot of the vegetarians appear to have taken offence anyway and started vigorously defending themselves. ^^

Personally, I enjoy the taste and texture of nicely cooked meat, but at the same time I could quite happily live as a vegetarian.

I choose to eat meat though, because even if I didn't morally agree with it (and I'm undecided on the matter tbh) it wouldn't stop that chicken/cow/pig from being reared and slaughtered, just the same as not buying a new car will not save the environment; that car is not bespoke made for you, it was made anyway and you just bought it.

In the future I may go vegetarian again, but only when the mood takes me.

For now I'm sticking to meat. *searches around for bacon butty*

Reply 24

nolongerhearthemusic

GazzyG

I choose to eat meat though, because even if I didn't morally agree with it (and I'm undecided on the matter tbh) it wouldn't stop that chicken/cow/pig from being reared and slaughtered, just the same as not buying a new car will not save the environment; that car is not bespoke made for you, it was made anyway and you just bought it.

If you're buying something you're creating a demand for it. You can't get around the fact that by buying meat you are paying someone to rear and slaughter an animal. If you find it morally wrong, don't pay someone to do it.

Reply 25

Nathan.Boyd

Suri

Personally I feel that it is really on people who eat meat to justify why it is OK to do so, rather than the other way round. Given that we accept it is immoral to kill humans, meat eaters (or those of them who feel they are "justified") must explain which difference between animals and humans it is that means it is not immoral to kill animals.

The argument about how animals kill others is invalid; we don't look to animals to decide how to live with regards to any other aspect of life, why should we copy them in this case? On top of this, carnivorous animals need to eat meat to survive; we have the technological and intellectual capability to be vegetarian without any health detriments. If I couldn't survive, or couldn't be healthy, on a vegetarian diet, I would feel no obligation to stay on it.

"That's how we are created" sounds like a religious argument so is not really valid. We are not "supposed" to or "designed" to eat meat; we evolved with the capability and survived through natural selection. That doesn't mean we should feel compelled to utilise the evolutionary adaptations which got us this far. "Eating meat is natural": once again, this doesn't really mean anything.

Finally people who eat fish but not other types of meat are not vegetarians, they are pescetarians. I think most of them don't have that diest for morality purposes, but for health or taste reasons. Anyone who claims to be a vegetarian but eats fish is an attention seeking show pony.

Hope that helped!

Reply 26

GazzyG

nolongerhearthemusic

Do you honestly - honestly - believe that if you do not buy the chicken that is in the chiller of a supermarket, then another one somewhere is being saved?

Reply 27

nolongerhearthemusic

GazzyG

Do you honestly - honestly - believe that if you do not buy the chicken that is in the chiller of a supermarket, then another one somewhere is being saved?

If enough people did it, that's exactly what would happen. You are creating a demand. You're paying someone to farm and slaughter that chicken, and it's your responsibility if you choose to do that.

Reply 28

MissStardust

I'm veggie, and it's because I hate the thought of eating something that had previously been alive, it just seems cruel to me.

But I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should respect others even if they're different.

I don't want everyone in the world to go vegetarian though, because as people have said, if there's no demand for meat, farmers won't be making money off them, they'll get over populated and so even more will be killed for no reason, and I know me not eating meat doesn't save many because there are far more meat eaters but I feel a lot less guilty not eating meat :smile:

Reply 29

Addnightshade13

personally I'm a Veggie because i find it healthier, cheaper and easier to maintain. plus the added moral haziness of a sentient beings life being taken for my own culinary pleasures!
I once had the pleasure of conversing with a new age vegetarian who believed to choose to be vegetarian was the human's way to transcend the food chain and become more than other animals.
we didn't really get to the role of animal products in the conversation. but i just thought it was one of the most profound reasons to be vegetarian or vegan i had ever heard!

Reply 30

numb3rb0y

Rinsed

One thing always strikes me about what is probably the largest argument for vegetarianism, which says that by eating meat we are complicit in taking a life from another animal, and that's cruel or something.

Do you truly believe you are saving a life? You are not, and I realise few vegetarians believe that by eating meat you are killing an animal which would otherwise spend its days frolicking on some sunny farmers field, but I have met those who do. If we ate less meat fewer animals be reared next time round.

It does not follow from "I do not wish to be complicit in killing" that one is claiming to save lives. There is a very big difference. Vegetarians who take that view are ridding themselves of responsibility for killing, not saying that you're protecting animals from slaughter. The invisible hand does mean that they are in effect doing so for future animals, though.

The next argument is though that by rearing fewer animals we are preventing the suffering the meat industry causes.

Rinsed

In comparison with life in the wild, animal's lives on a modern farm compare favourably. I am discounting factory farmed meat here, as I do disagree with that and find it excessively cruel. (Then again, I don't care enough to not buy it, but I would make the argument that free range is better, if dearer. If I were that opposed to animal suffering I'd just switch to free range)
Animals in farms lead lives protected from predators and disease, with plentiful food, clean water and warmth in winter. This is not something that can be said about most wild animals.
Indeed, even the manner of their death is better. Animals in the wild never have 'nice' deaths. They die because of disease, accidents, predators or fighting, and of course in none of these is there the guarantee of a quick and painless death, as there is in an abattoir.
I could eat a free range steak content in the knowledge that I had caused no unnecessary suffering, and indeed, the animal would never have lived in the first place if not for my desire to eat it.

You just committed the same logical fallacy that you attributed to vegetarians earlier. An animal that has not been farmed would not be an animal in the wild; animals are purpose-bred for farming, and if the farms did not exist then they would not exist. Thus, it is illogical to claim higher qualify of life for farmed animals as an argument for farming, as there is no real basis for comparison. You can't compare anything but the attribute of existence with something that doesn't exist, and even then whether existence is even a predicate is questionable.

Rinsed

I realise this argument doesn't hold for animals which are hunted, but those animals need to be killed to prevent over-population, or because they are pets, etc. By eating the produce of these necessary acts, we are simply not wasting it.

Reply 31

randdom

I am a veggie and personally the issue that I have is more with the type of farming that we have in the UK. I don't think that the mass slaughter or animals is a good thing. I feel that if personally I can survive without eating meat then that is what I want to do. I don't like the idea that an animal has died for me to have a ham sandwich. If other people decide that they want to eat meat then that is their decision but personally I don't like the idea and therefore I don't.

Reply 32

Dill

I just don't see the point in eating meat when I can survive well without it, I don't particularly like it and I think it's cruel.

It's a shame that when vegetarians express their point of view (which very rarely happens without being prompted) they are accused of preaching and being self righteous. But I've met plenty of meat eaters who seem to have a problem with me being vegetarian (even though it doesn't affect them!).

Reply 33

Smack

Volunteer Team

It's their choice to be a vegetarian. I don't see why anyone can have a problem with what other people do that doesn't affect them.

I'm a meat eater, and I eat a lot of meat. Getting big and strong is hard enough as it is, for me to exclude meat from my diet would be daft, especially since I'm also quite health concious. My choice to eat meat, and no vegetarian is going to take that away from me.

Reply 34

teaandcake-please

To meat eaters: why don't you eat puppies?

(Don't say 'because they aren't on the shelf at tesco..haha :P). Why "wouldn't" you eat puppies may be more accurate..

Who says I wouldn't?

Smack

Who says I wouldn't?

Me, generalising the majority of the British public.

Reply 37

Smack

Volunteer Team

teaandcake-please

Me, generalising the majority of the British public.

Well that's only because of how we as a society see the dog. If we didn't see the dog the way that we do - as a pet and not something to be eaten - then we'd have no problem eating puppies, like many of us have no problem eating veil.

Reply 38

grape:)

Suri

I am pescatarian which means I am a vegetarian who eats sea living animals. I fully understand that humans are designed to eat meat. But I don't eat meat because of the way it's killed. As for fish, I debate their intelligence and the way they are killed is far more humane anyway. (no offence to anyone who disagrees its just the way I see it) :smile:

Reply 39

grape:)

Rinsed

How's that then?

i watched one of those watchdog programmes or dispatches or whatever, and people were horrendous to the animals, kicking and throwing them etc (sheep). x