Do you agree with the idea that masculinity is subjective?

To be PC, we often say that being a man is not about being strong or tough.

But I was thinking something the other day. Many women still believe that despite our modern PC ramblings, men should lead in relationships. Some may say this is social conditioning, but IMO it's something deeper than that.

Is masculinity subjective?

Reply 1

Tudball

13

Whatever it is, it's far too ingrained into our perceptions to be PC'd away.

Reply 2

ckingalt

14

Yes, masculinity is subjective. At least, that is what my wife says. :ashamed2:

Reply 3

Bagration

18

Some aspects of "masculinity" are evolutionary/genetic, and so aren't subjective. Others are obviously completely subjective. Some people would say it isn't manly to listen to Justin Beiber, but really there's no basis in that (although it is still gay.)

Reply 4

floridadad55

7

Original post by ilovedesifems

To be PC, we often say that being a man is not about being strong or tough.

But I was thinking something the other day. Many women still believe that despite our modern PC ramblings, men should lead in relationships. Some may say this is social conditioning, but IMO it's something deeper than that.

Is masculinity subjective?

I would say that masculinity is subjective. Back in 1776, men like George Washington powdered their hair, wore frilly clothes with lace, and loved dancing the minuet at balls.

Reply 5

ilovedesifems

OP

Original post by floridadad55

I would say that masculinity is subjective. Back in 1776, men like George Washington powdered their hair, wore frilly clothes with lace, and loved dancing the minuet at balls.

But in that era, traditional traits of masculinity were a lot stronger than now. It's only now we say there is no such thing as gender roles and other such crap.

Reply 6

Sisu

It's a social construct hence inherently relative. Relative to different societies at various point and relative to different social groups within these societies. Can you give me an example of masculine trait which you think has a biological basis?

Reply 7

RandZul'Zorander

11

Masculinity (and Femininity) are both socially constructed norms to control behavior patterns. They are inherently relative and this can be seen looking at cultures all around the world. In many different places there are many different views on who has what role. In some societies being tough and stern is associated with women while being more nurturing is for men.

Reply 8

ilovedesifems

OP

Original post by RandZul'Zorander

Masculinity (and Femininity) are both socially constructed norms to control behavior patterns. They are inherently relative and this can be seen looking at cultures all around the world. In many different places there are many different views on who has what role. In some societies being tough and stern is associated with women while being more nurturing is for men.

Is there evidence to corroborate this?

Reply 9

RandZul'Zorander

11

Original post by ilovedesifems

Is there evidence to corroborate this?

Well a basic example would be the Amazonians. The females were warriors, aggressive, "tough", as compared to their male counterparts.

Reply 10

ilovedesifems

OP

Original post by RandZul'Zorander

Well a basic example would be the Amazonians. The females were warriors, aggressive, "tough", as compared to their male counterparts.

Is there research to substantiate this?

Reply 11

Anatheme

18

Hey, we already make babies and carry them round for 9 months, plus we're not allowed out of the kitchen. Asking us on a date is really the least you could do, lazy bum!

Reply 12

TheGreatReformer

Manliness (e.g Virility, Masculinity) is being leading, dominant, strong, mentally and physically steadfast etc etc. (Incidentally, these same words were also particularly used in the advocation of White supremacist ideas in the 19th/20th centuries etc)

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 13

RandZul'Zorander

11

Original post by ilovedesifems

Is there research to substantiate this?

A basic google search gives you plenty of results/information. You can search "masculinity and femininity in society."

Reply 14

SpicyStrawberry

18

Yes. Some people think only men wear pink, others think it makes them look effeminate.

Masculinity and femininity are social constructs, there is quite a lot of literature on this.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 15

ilovedesifems

OP

Original post by RandZul'Zorander

A basic google search gives you plenty of results/information. You can search "masculinity and femininity in society."

You made the point, so you cannot substantiate it?

Reply 16

navarre

20

It probably is. However, I think we'd all agree that, say, Phil Mitchell is more masculine than Justin Bieber. But it is a social construct.

Reply 17

chocolatechoco

Original post by ilovedesifems

To be PC, we oftHen say that being a man is not about being strong or tough.

But I was thinking something the other day. Many women still believe that despite our modern PC ramblings, men should lead in relationships. Some may say this is social conditioning, but IMO it's something deeper than that.

Is masculinity subjective?

Yeah I agree to an extent, I don't think the gender roles need to be as extreme as they are

But aren't guys inherently stronger/faster? I mean, in sports they always are. (I don't know for sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong.) And things like their voice being lower after it breaks adds to it