Why don't the different races do equally well at marathon running?
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Original post by ridwan12
This is soo borderline racist... Its to do with a high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres. Were not horses you can breed to get an ultimate human. Type fast twitch usain bolt in google youll see how dumb you sound.
You can breed to get the ultimate human our genes work no differently from the other animals we a have bred for certainntasks I'm afraid.
Thing is if you take the fastest people they will have the most genetic disposition to high levels of fast twitch muscle fibres.
Why don't we have separate marathons for different genders and ethnicity, that way one can only be compared against their own gender and race.
Original post by ridwan12
Were not horses you can breed to get an ultimate human. Type fast twitch usain bolt in google youll see how dumb you sound.
We're not horses but you certainly could breed humans for speed if you wanted...
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Original post by Axiomasher
When I say 'high altitude' I'm not talking about Himalayan altitudes, just a relatively high level above sea level when compared to other places - the idea may be contested but it is out there:
My point is all long distance athletes under take altitude training and therefore being born in high altitude doesnt affect whether youll be better than your opponents as much as genetic. Therefore genetic plays a greater role as all long distance athletes have high haemoglobin level as a result of altitude training.
Original post by pane123
I used an example very similar to this to explain why I don't think dyslexic people should get extra time in exams. If they get that, I want to be able to compete in Olympic 100m with a 30m head start.
Yes, exactly. Especially when they're only mildly dylexsic- mildly meaning that they have a bit of trouble spelling.
Forget marathon running , you seem to be ignoring the fact the Chinese beat every other country at the olympics year after year in most sports .
Original post by LightBlueSoldier
We're not horses but you certainly could breed humans for speed if you wanted...
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No, it would take many generations, much like evolution or survival of fittest takes generations. The comment was highly offensive. West african who werent captured have as much fast twitch fibres as their carribean / american counterparts.
Original post by ridwan12
My point is all long distance athletes under take altitude training and therefore being born in high altitude doesnt affect whether youll be better than your opponents as much as genetic. Therefore genetic plays a greater role as all long distance athletes have high haemoglobin level as a result of altitude training.
But being born at altitude to possibly hundreds (maybe thousands) of generations of people who were also born at altitude and then growing up at altitude on top of that might easily mean some genetic component combined with a developmental one which makes for east African elite athletes being so consistently at the top (pardon the pun). You could be right, altitude genes could be secondary to muscle-fibre genes and maybe other things, but it's not an unreasonable part-explanation.
Original post by ridwan12
However in my opinion it is only seen at elite levels.
Exactly. That's actually the most important point. For the vast majority of people racism and sexism should be an irrelevance, because the vast majority of people are not in the top 2% of the bell curves for whatever trait you are studying (athleticism, IQ, EQ). The means of the populations may be different, and if they have the same standard deviations you will get more or fewer elite performers for different populations. However, the standard deviations are so large and the populations overlap so much that if you draw a random black, white or asian person from the population you cannot make statements about these individuals based on the means of their populations or the elite performers of their population. At all. Try it: "I'm a white male - like Einstein. Therefore, I'm a genius." - that doesn't work. You could easily be the white male who happens to be stupider than 80% of the black female population.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by FriendlyLiberal
The pursuit of equality is the highest virtue, yet black people consistently dominate at the top of marathon running. All races are equal, so this is evidence of systematic racism, just like the racism which leads to whites dominating economically.
How can we stop the structural discrimination and social construct that leads to blacks dominating marathons? How can we have fairer representation across the races and reduce inequality?
Some countries have introduced quotas and affirmative action for boardrooms and politics to give women the help they need to reach the top. We tax the rich more to distribute wealth more evenly. The National Union of Students has recently introduced gender quotas to shoehorn more women into the NUS.
Could we introduce something similar to ensure fairer representation of whites and asians in marathons?
Perhaps we could require 40% of the top 10 finishers to be non-black? If blacks were going to come 7-10th they would need to stop and wait for some whites or asians to go past. Because, equality.
Or perhaps we could give non-blacks a head start, like they do for women in the LA Marathon?
What are your ideas for making marathon running more equal and fair? Or are you a racist that thinks different races have different ability levels?
How can we stop the structural discrimination and social construct that leads to blacks dominating marathons? How can we have fairer representation across the races and reduce inequality?
Some countries have introduced quotas and affirmative action for boardrooms and politics to give women the help they need to reach the top. We tax the rich more to distribute wealth more evenly. The National Union of Students has recently introduced gender quotas to shoehorn more women into the NUS.
Could we introduce something similar to ensure fairer representation of whites and asians in marathons?
Perhaps we could require 40% of the top 10 finishers to be non-black? If blacks were going to come 7-10th they would need to stop and wait for some whites or asians to go past. Because, equality.
Or perhaps we could give non-blacks a head start, like they do for women in the LA Marathon?
What are your ideas for making marathon running more equal and fair? Or are you a racist that thinks different races have different ability levels?
I've got news for you... different races have different genetic code, these genes come from evolving to one's environment. Also, it's not all black people that out-perform everyone in marathons. The long-distance runners you are thinking of are the Oromo peoples, they originate in the mountains of East Africa and are commonly found in Kenya, Etheopia and Somalia. they have genetically adapted to both running at speeds and enduring cardiovascular strain, why? because this region of Africa is not very fertile meaning there's not much vegetative food for the taking. What there is a lot of, however is animal game. The Oromo people are known for hunting wildebeests, gazelles and other plain-striding mammalls. This need for being able to hunt fast animals sprung natural selection which only let the strongest long-distance runners survive so today, about 90% of these people have great potential as a long-distance runner. Also, remeber my point about the mountains where they come from? A high elevation means oxygen in the air is very sparcely concentrated, simply walking for a couple of minutes can run you out of breath but the Oromo adapted in kind, so now their cardiovascular systems are 10 outta 10.
now, obviously this can't be said for everyone native to the horn of Africa, but if you sampled a group of Oromo or even Afar people against other ethic groups in a marathon (people with no history of competitive running) I'm sure you'll find that the East Africans will out run just about everyone
Original post by redferry
You can breed to get the ultimate human our genes work no differently from the other animals we a have bred for certainntasks I'm afraid.
Thing is if you take the fastest people they will have the most genetic disposition to high levels of fast twitch muscle fibres.
Thing is if you take the fastest people they will have the most genetic disposition to high levels of fast twitch muscle fibres.
At slave auctions they checked number if teeth and muscle mass. To get a super fast human you would need to have the fastest male and FEMALE over many generations. West africans who werent slaves are as fast as carribean and american runners
Original post by redferry
So anyone of they put in enough hard work can do that and it is nothing to do with genetics? Anyone can be an elite sportman!?
yes genetics does play a role but its got **** all to do with slavery and "breeding" it is more to do with hard work and dedication .
Original post by llys
Exactly. That's actually the most important point. For the vast majority of people racism and sexism should be an irrelevance, because the vast majority of people are not in the top 2% of the bell curves for whatever trait you are studying (athleticism, IQ, EQ). The means of the populations may be different, and if they have the same standard deviations you will get more or fewer elite performers for different populations. However, the standard deviations are so large and the populations overlap so much that if you draw a random black, white or asian person from the population you cannot make statements about these individuals based on the means of their populations or the elite performers of their population. At all. Try it: "I'm a white male - like Einstein. Therefore, I'm a genius." - that doesn't work. You could easily be the white male who happens to be stupider than 80% of the black female population.
Are you denying that there is no discrimination on ethnic people and females dont face diacrimination in the work place or parliment ect
If white people were given a headstart in long distance running an East African would still probably win, lol.
Original post by FriendlyLiberal
All races are equal, so this is evidence of systematic racism, just like the racism which leads to whites dominating economically.
...are you seriously suggesting that POC are "naturally inferior" to white people in fields of academia/business/economics?
Jesus Christ, I've seen everything on this godforsaken forum now.
Explaining like I would to a five-year-old:
White [male] people dominate the economic world due to a long, long history of black [and/or female] people not having access to higher education, their own bank accounts, the right to own property, etc.
History and social prejudices are important things. We don't live in a perfect world where everyone is free to be their own person. "Individualism" is a libertarian's wet dream imo. Community and context matter a hell of a lot.
POC tend succeed at marathon running because of the altitudes of the countries they train in, I think. Less oxygen up there = increases stamina. (I read this years ago, I might be wrong.)
Either way, that part of the argument is dumb. That's like saying "tall people are good at basketball, therefore, DISCRIMINATION" (no).
Original post by Jaegon Targaryen
Forget marathon running , you seem to be ignoring the fact the Chinese beat every other country at the olympics year after year in most sports .
In certain sports they certainly do seem to dominate.
It's scientifically shown that it's because the successful runners often train at high altitudes where there is less oxygen in the air (which increases their stamina) so when they come to oxygen rich environments, they can often work much harder than the people who are used to training in that environment.
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Original post by blackwid0w
If white people were given a headstart in long distance running an East African would still probably win, lol.
Not really; the fastest female marathon-runner is Paula Radcliffe; she's as white as a person can be.
Original post by matthewduncan
yes genetics does play a role but its got **** all to do with slavery and "breeding" it is more to do with hard work and dedication .
That's cute, but no matter how hard I work, I'll probably never be the world champion at high jump. Likewise, no matter how hard a kid from rural Ethiopia works, he'll probably never be the CEO of Apple.
You Can Do Anything If You Work Hard Enough™ is such a pack of lies. Most people don't work and slave their way into wealth and success, they're pretty much born at – or near – the top of the ladder.
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