Multiculturalism v Uniculturalism? THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
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Original post by Tahooper
Like I have said at least once before, I support multiculturalism providing that the cultures are at least similar, which sadly isn't the case in Britain.
The majority of Muslims get by without causing problems directly but I'd be willing to bet a higher proportion of Muslims believe in Islamic values rather than values more attributed to Britain and other western democracies like equal rights for women and ethno-religious minorities, abolition of slavery and capital punishment etc.
Original post by whyumadtho
Why?
So you're vilifying people who are doing nothing wrong because you think they may hold pernicious views. How very intolerant of you.
So you're vilifying people who are doing nothing wrong because you think they may hold pernicious views. How very intolerant of you.
So that they can actually get along with each other, what did you think the point of multiculturalism was in the first place?
I am not vilifying anybody in particular, but it is no lie that Islam is much more intolerant religion than the likes of Christianity and Judaism, even Hinduism and Sikhism are more tolerant than the religious cesspit that is Islam.
I don't hate Muslims, I hate their religion and culture.
Original post by Tahooper
The majority of Muslims get by without causing problems directly but I'd be willing to bet a higher proportion of Muslims believe in Islamic values rather than values more attributed to Britain and other western democracies like equal rights for women and ethno-religious minorities, abolition of slavery and capital punishment etc.
The majority of Muslims get by without causing problems directly but I'd be willing to bet a higher proportion of Muslims believe in Islamic values rather than values more attributed to Britain and other western democracies like equal rights for women and ethno-religious minorities, abolition of slavery and capital punishment etc.
For your general knowledge, Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) first wife was a wealthy merchant and his employer.
I understand that nationalities under Islamic rule and law today, may indicate otherwise, but if you look at Islam in its period of revelation, the rights that were apportioned to women were far ahead of its time and an example to other peoples.
Yes I am British, yes I am white, not that it should matter of course.
Boundaries and lines on maps indicating sovereignty and ownership is farcicle in my mind, however, protection of borders and control of the flow of people is a necessity for the operation of the country.
To state though that cultural influx in this country is an issue is ridiculous. I am sure at one time the people of Dorset were extremely unhappy with those of Hampshire coming into their county for jobs and bringing their 'new' different ways with them. We have also had similar responses to the immigration of Irish to the UK.
Culture, like language, evolves, adopts, assimilates, immitates, etc. Just when it is around long enough it becomes the norm and most feel all the better for it. For example, how many here think their clothing this season is a reflection of Britain or includes Eastern influences, etc. Our culture has influences from many areas, not just foreign nationals or visitors or our newly acquired compatriots. I would argue what is a much more dangerous influence on our British culture is the media and television. That my friends, does not need citizenship to impose ideals.
True story.
Original post by Tahooper
So that they can actually get along with each other, what did you think the point of multiculturalism was in the first place?
1.
'Culture' is a product of an individual's agency.
2.
The extent to which you can 'get along' with somebody is idiosyncratic; for example, person A may share musical, culinary, sporting, reading, etc. interests with Nick Griffin. However, because person A personally considers Nick Griffin's sociopolitical stance as incompatible, he is unable to 'get along' with him. By all other accounts, they are 'of similar cultures'. Person B may not share any of those interests except the sociopolitical one, which he personally considers as of paramount importance, so he can 'get along' with Nick Griffin.
3.
'Culture', therefore, is an arbitrary term that you are falsely treating as a tangible element of society that can be compared with other tangible 'cultures', when it is not. There is no such thing as 'cultural incompatibility', there is only incompatibility with your idiosyncratic psychological profile.
4.
The presence of people with different values to you is not necessarily bad, it is a fact of any society with a sizeable population. Is it possible for you to become friends with everyone in the country because you have decided you are under the same cultural umbrella, or are there further differences that preclude the establishment of a relationship? Dissimilarity does not necessitate incompatibility to the extent of hostility.
I am not vilifying anybody in particular, but it is no lie that Islam is much more intolerant religion than the likes of Christianity and Judaism, even Hinduism and Sikhism are more tolerant than the religious cesspit that is Islam.
I don't hate Muslims, I hate their religion and culture.
I don't hate Muslims, I hate their religion and culture.
As an analogy, and I am not comparing Islam to Nazism: if you hate Nazism, are you apathetic towards neo-Nazis and supporters of that ideology/belief system?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by susan_sontag
So this "ultimate goal" involves the so called "inevitable mixed race future" where they are "no races" right? But ONLY in EVERY White country right?
That sounds like you are an anti-White who is a "mixed race supremacist"
I doubt you’d be a fan of the old fashioned kind of Eugenics that sought to improve the health and intelligence of White people. But now that a Eugenic argument can be made to justify blending Whites out of existence, you’re all for it. Typical anti-White logic! Always tripping over the double standards! Why do you support these double standards?
The funny thing is that no one is flooding all Asian nations and ONLY Asian nations with non-Asians, demanding the Asians “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
No one is flooding all African nations and ONLY African nations with non-Africans and demanding the Africans “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
This is being forced on EVERY white country,and ONLY on white countries. It is genocide.
That sounds like you are an anti-White who is a "mixed race supremacist"
I doubt you’d be a fan of the old fashioned kind of Eugenics that sought to improve the health and intelligence of White people. But now that a Eugenic argument can be made to justify blending Whites out of existence, you’re all for it. Typical anti-White logic! Always tripping over the double standards! Why do you support these double standards?
The funny thing is that no one is flooding all Asian nations and ONLY Asian nations with non-Asians, demanding the Asians “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
No one is flooding all African nations and ONLY African nations with non-Africans and demanding the Africans “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
This is being forced on EVERY white country,and ONLY on white countries. It is genocide.
Original post by Tahooper
I don't hate Muslims, I hate their religion and culture.
Original post by susan_sontag
So this "ultimate goal" involves the so called "inevitable mixed race future" where they are "no races" right? But ONLY in EVERY White country right?
That sounds like you are an anti-White who is a "mixed race supremacist"
I doubt you’d be a fan of the old fashioned kind of Eugenics that sought to improve the health and intelligence of White people. But now that a Eugenic argument can be made to justify blending Whites out of existence, you’re all for it. Typical anti-White logic! Always tripping over the double standards! Why do you support these double standards?
The funny thing is that no one is flooding all Asian nations and ONLY Asian nations with non-Asians, demanding the Asians “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
No one is flooding all African nations and ONLY African nations with non-Africans and demanding the Africans “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
This is being forced on EVERY white country,and ONLY on white countries. It is genocide.
That sounds like you are an anti-White who is a "mixed race supremacist"
I doubt you’d be a fan of the old fashioned kind of Eugenics that sought to improve the health and intelligence of White people. But now that a Eugenic argument can be made to justify blending Whites out of existence, you’re all for it. Typical anti-White logic! Always tripping over the double standards! Why do you support these double standards?
The funny thing is that no one is flooding all Asian nations and ONLY Asian nations with non-Asians, demanding the Asians “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
No one is flooding all African nations and ONLY African nations with non-Africans and demanding the Africans “assimilate” themselves out of existence in some alleged attempt to “end racism” by creating a mixed race.
This is being forced on EVERY white country,and ONLY on white countries. It is genocide.
Lol. My feelings toward you are somewhat mixed. I don't know whether to outright laugh or feel sorry for you.
For a start, just read wikipedia entry regarding the British Empire...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire
I don't think there was any inference of blending white people out of existence. I think you may have a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps what the poster was trying to get at is that the divisions we place between ourselves of ethnicity, geographical heritage, etc, will one day become antiquated. A different city today can be travelled to in no time at all by modern means. Hence, the people of Liverpool do not feel they are being blended out of existence by marrying and mixing with those of London do they???
I do not identify my sense of self by the colour of my skin, nor do I believe it is any indication of my past, present or future. I don't care that my Mother is blonde and I am dark haired. Equally, I couldn't care less if my children's children's children are black, white, brown, pink, green, or blue.
Read. Read a lot and I kindly suggest that you expand your horizons in the World a little. I will accept any negative rep I get for this post gladly.
What about hair colour?
Not being racist but I've got dark hair and I feel more comfortable round other dark haired people, why its seen as acceptable that we have blondes and gingers all over the place saddens me, I feel like I'm being bred out by the blondes??
Not being racist but I've got dark hair and I feel more comfortable round other dark haired people, why its seen as acceptable that we have blondes and gingers all over the place saddens me, I feel like I'm being bred out by the blondes??
Original post by StuPro
For your general knowledge, Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) first wife was a wealthy merchant and his employer.
I understand that nationalities under Islamic rule and law today, may indicate otherwise, but if you look at Islam in its period of revelation, the rights that were apportioned to women were far ahead of its time and an example to other peoples.
Yes I am British, yes I am white, not that it should matter of course.
Boundaries and lines on maps indicating sovereignty and ownership is farcicle in my mind, however, protection of borders and control of the flow of people is a necessity for the operation of the country.
To state though that cultural influx in this country is an issue is ridiculous. I am sure at one time the people of Dorset were extremely unhappy with those of Hampshire coming into their county for jobs and bringing their 'new' different ways with them. We have also had similar responses to the immigration of Irish to the UK.
Culture, like language, evolves, adopts, assimilates, immitates, etc. Just when it is around long enough it becomes the norm and most feel all the better for it. For example, how many here think their clothing this season is a reflection of Britain or includes Eastern influences, etc. Our culture has influences from many areas, not just foreign nationals or visitors or our newly acquired compatriots. I would argue what is a much more dangerous influence on our British culture is the media and television. That my friends, does not need citizenship to impose ideals.
True story.
I understand that nationalities under Islamic rule and law today, may indicate otherwise, but if you look at Islam in its period of revelation, the rights that were apportioned to women were far ahead of its time and an example to other peoples.
Yes I am British, yes I am white, not that it should matter of course.
Boundaries and lines on maps indicating sovereignty and ownership is farcicle in my mind, however, protection of borders and control of the flow of people is a necessity for the operation of the country.
To state though that cultural influx in this country is an issue is ridiculous. I am sure at one time the people of Dorset were extremely unhappy with those of Hampshire coming into their county for jobs and bringing their 'new' different ways with them. We have also had similar responses to the immigration of Irish to the UK.
Culture, like language, evolves, adopts, assimilates, immitates, etc. Just when it is around long enough it becomes the norm and most feel all the better for it. For example, how many here think their clothing this season is a reflection of Britain or includes Eastern influences, etc. Our culture has influences from many areas, not just foreign nationals or visitors or our newly acquired compatriots. I would argue what is a much more dangerous influence on our British culture is the media and television. That my friends, does not need citizenship to impose ideals.
True story.
Muhammad also orchestrated the mass-murder of over 500 innocent Jews, what's your point?
Islam may have been the "enlightening religion" a thousand years ago but in case you hadn't noticed the new religion experiencing modernisation right now is Christianity, leaving Islam in it's dust.
Irish culture is more like British culture than Islamic culture.
British culture is a mix of other tolerant cultures. It would be a sad day when that perfect recipe is ruined by cultures similar to but not excluding Islam.
If you're so concerned about media and television, don't read the news and don't turn on the T.V.
Original post by whyumadtho...Then you hate Muslims. I don't understand how or why people attempt to separate the concepts.
As an analogy, and I am not comparing Islam to Nazism: if you hate Nazism, are you apathetic towards neo-Nazis and supporters of that ideology/belief system?
1.
'Culture' is a product of an individual's agency.
2.
The extent to which you can 'get along' with somebody is idiosyncratic; for example, person A may share musical, culinary, sporting, reading, etc. interests with Nick Griffin. However, because person A personally considers Nick Griffin's sociopolitical stance as incompatible, he is unable to 'get along' with him. By all other accounts, they are 'of similar cultures'. Person B may not share any of those interests except the sociopolitical one, which he personally considers as of paramount importance, so he can 'get along' with Nick Griffin.
3.
'Culture', therefore, is an arbitrary term that you are falsely treating as a tangible element of society that can be compared with other tangible 'cultures', when it is not. There is no such thing as 'cultural incompatibility', there is only incompatibility with your idiosyncratic psychological profile.
4.
The presence of people with different values to you is not necessarily bad, it is a fact of any society with a sizeable population. Is it possible for you to become friends with everyone in the country because you have decided you are under the same cultural umbrella, or are there further differences that preclude the establishment of a relationship? Dissimilarity does not necessitate incompatibility to the extent of hostility.
As an analogy, and I am not comparing Islam to Nazism: if you hate Nazism, are you apathetic towards neo-Nazis and supporters of that ideology/belief system?
Never ceases to amaze me when people think they know more about me then I do
Let me guess, you support capital punishment and the oppression of women, right? Because if you don't, by your logic, makes you Islamophobic and a racist.
I don't hate Muslims. Accusing other people of hating Muslims suggests that you yourself are a closet Islamophobe (edited 11 years ago)
Original post by whyumadtho
This is rather disrespectful and intolerant. Why are you not behaving in a British way?
A British way ?
Britain was historically oppressive, and racially supremacist, and believed they were superior to all cultures and races, even superior to other white Europeans .
That is the British way unfortunately.
Original post by Tahooper
Never ceases to amaze me when people think they know more about me then I do
Let me guess, you support capital punishment and the oppression of women, right? Because if you don't, by your logic, makes you Islamophobic and a racist.
I don't hate Muslims. Accusing other people of hating Muslims suggests that you yourself are a closet Islamophobe
Let me guess, you support capital punishment and the oppression of women, right? Because if you don't, by your logic, makes you Islamophobic and a racist.
I don't hate Muslims. Accusing other people of hating Muslims suggests that you yourself are a closet Islamophobe Original post by democracyforum
A British way ?
Britain was historically oppressive, and racially supremacist, and believed they were superior to all cultures and races, even superior to other white Europeans .
That is the British way unfortunately.
Britain was historically oppressive, and racially supremacist, and believed they were superior to all cultures and races, even superior to other white Europeans .
That is the British way unfortunately.
Original post by whyumadtho
I'm trying to understand how you can hate an ideology/belief system but not the people who have chosen to follow that ideology/belief system.
By Tahooper's definition in any case.
By Tahooper's definition in any case.
Do you never sleep?
Original post by whyumadtho
I'm trying to understand how you can hate an ideology/belief system but not the people who have chosen to follow that ideology/belief system.
By Tahooper's definition in any case.
By Tahooper's definition in any case.
Not all Muslims are the same, you know. That is why I only criticise the religion, not the people. Some will follow Islam more/less than others. I thought you of all people would realise that, but alas, you do not.
Original post by democracyforum
A British way ?
Britain was historically oppressive, and racially supremacist, and believed they were superior to all cultures and races, even superior to other white Europeans .
That is the British way unfortunately.
Britain was historically oppressive, and racially supremacist, and believed they were superior to all cultures and races, even superior to other white Europeans .
That is the British way unfortunately.
It isn't anymore, I thought you would have noticed that.
Original post by Notethis
Do you never sleep?
Original post by Tahooper
Not all Muslims are the same, you know. That is why I only criticise the religion, not the people. Some will follow Islam more/less than others. I thought you of all people would realise that, but alas, you do not.
Original post by whyumadtho
If you hate the religion so much how can you remain apathetic to those who sympathise with it? Or is it not the religion, per se, that you dislike, but particular aspects of it (and correspondingly, you dislike the Muslims who follow those particular parts)?
You cannot blame somebody for having an opinion which has been forced on them from an early age
Original post by Tahooper
Muhammad also orchestrated the mass-murder of over 500 innocent Jews, what's your point?
Islam may have been the "enlightening religion" a thousand years ago but in case you hadn't noticed the new religion experiencing modernisation right now is Christianity, leaving Islam in it's dust.
Irish culture is more like British culture than Islamic culture.
British culture is a mix of other tolerant cultures. It would be a sad day when that perfect recipe is ruined by cultures similar to but not excluding Islam.
If you're so concerned about media and television, don't read the news and don't turn on the T.V.
Islam may have been the "enlightening religion" a thousand years ago but in case you hadn't noticed the new religion experiencing modernisation right now is Christianity, leaving Islam in it's dust.
Irish culture is more like British culture than Islamic culture.
British culture is a mix of other tolerant cultures. It would be a sad day when that perfect recipe is ruined by cultures similar to but not excluding Islam.
If you're so concerned about media and television, don't read the news and don't turn on the T.V.
If you wish to cite a source for your statement of, 'orchestrated deaths of.....'
My statement regarding a point of fact from the life of the Prophet Muhammad was to just state an example of women's rights within the history of Islam. If you wish to begin a dispute a historical event, then dispute my statement at hand.
If you wish to point out the genocide of proponents of a particular religion, then I call Hitler to the stand. A white, self-labelled Christian. But that is superfluous to our discussion. Your statement in no way contradicts my assertion of evidencing women's rights in Islam. A poor response. You could have searched google and come up with contemporary evidence that would have been more credit worthy.
Irish culture is more like British culture than Islamic culture. For a start, what is Islamic culture? I presume you are a UK national by the content of your ramblings, how up to date is your knowledge of the World. For a start, when recalling the example of Irish immigration to England I was actually referring to the attitude of the general population to this influx. It was a comparison of your attitude today to the attitude of people then and how with time people realise how utterly stupid it is. Not a direct comparison of Irish and Islamic culture.
Next point, marital rape was only outlawed in this country in 1991, it is still illegal for homosexual couples to marry, etc, etc. To say that this country is tolerant is not exactly true. You, today, are a clear demonstration. Further, this is a debate about multiculturalism, not religion. If you wish to include religion then let us return to our pagan roots. Also, if you did not know, Jesus was not white. Nor, is Father Christmas real. Tell me, why can you be so accepting and supportive of the influx of one middle eastern religion but not another? Neither have white origins.
If you wish to compare and contrast religions, then start a new thread. I am in no way a proponent of either religion, nor do I hold enough knowledge of either to enter a serious debate.
I am not concerned about media as I am able to disseminate fact from fiction, subjective from the objective. There are others in this country that cannot. For example, you and your ilk are bandying around the statement 'genocide by mass immigration', a quick google clearly shows this sentence being popularised and distributed widely as an anti immigration slogan. Point demonstrated.
None of my statements have in anyway shown I am anti-white. Do you believe in evolution by the way? How do you suppose that the differences in our skin tones, etc, came about? Where are homo-sapiens believed to have originated?
If you really wish to help the 'white race' I suggest you start a new thread arguing against sun tanning, sun beds, fake tan, hair extensions and duck face.
I will not be replying to any more of your drivel as I am no longer prepared to provide you a platform. Good luck in life and all the best.
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