The Student Room Group
Reply 1
rbnphlp
x=eux=e^u

I can do dy/dx of this and I get
dxdy=eu.dudx\frac{dx}{dy}=e^u.\frac{du}{dx}
and I invert it to get dy/dx.
However I'm getting lost trying to find d2ydx2\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} of the above equation.any help will be appreciated

I don't know where you are getting y from.
You should be finding du/dx not dy/dx.
You could take logs of both sides to get rid of the need to differentiate implicitly.
Else do what you were doing
Reply 2
Small123
I don't know where you are getting y from.
You should be finding du/dx not dy/dx.
You could take logs of both sides to get rid of the need to differentiate implicitly.
Else do what you were doing

Have you covered c4
Reply 3
rbnphlp
Have you covered c4

Yes.
rbnphlp
x=eux=e^u

I can do dy/dx of this and I get
dxdy=eu.dudx\frac{dx}{dy}=e^u.\frac{du}{dx}
and I invert it to get dy/dx.
However I'm getting lost trying to find d2ydx2\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} of the above equation.any help will be appreciated



It seems an odd equation to be differentiating wrt y. Is this the whole question?
Reply 5
Small123
Yes.

I dont want to argue , but I need to find d^2y/dx^2 and finding du/dx wont get me there
Reply 6
Where is the "y" involved in the initial equation?
Find du/dx
Reply 7
ghostwalker
It seems an odd equation to be differentiating wrt y. Is this the whole question?

well its not ,its a second order differential question which requires substitution .I have to differentiate wrt y in order to make the sub
Reply 8
rbnphlp
I dont want to argue , but I need to find d^2y/dx^2 and finding du/dx wont get me there

I'm not arguing but I'm saying that differentiating with an unspecified variable y seems odd.
that first step seems wrong. If you've made your substitution then you should be able to find dx/du and du/dy then do dy/du * du/dx to find dy/dx. That might make the second bit a lot easier.
Reply 10
I have edited my post to include the whole question
Reply 11
anyone??
rbnphlp
x2d2ydx22xdydx+2y=0x^2\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}-2x\frac{dy}{dx}+2y=0

using the substituion, x=eux=e^u, solve.

x=eux=e^u

I can do dy/dx of this and I get
dxdy=eu.dudy\frac{dx}{dy}=e^u.\frac{du}{dy}
and I invert it to get dy/dx.
However I'm getting lost trying to find d2ydx2\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} of the above equation.any help will be appreciated



So, by the chain rule:

dydu=dydx×dxdu\displaystyle\frac{dy}{du}=\frac{dy}{dx}\times \frac{dx}{du}


=dydx×eu\displaystyle=\frac{dy}{dx}\times e^u

dydu=xdydx\displaystyle\frac{dy}{du}=x\frac{dy}{dx}

and just substitute that in.

For the second derivative, using product rule and chain rule:

d2ydu2=d2ydx2×(dxdu)2+dydx×d2xdu2\displaystyle\frac{d^2y}{du^2}=\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} \times \left(\frac{dx}{du}\right)^2+\frac{dy}{dx}\times \frac{d^2x}{du^2}

Can you take it from there?

Edit: You don't actually need to find dy/dx, just the terms involving dy/dx, which in this case is x dy/dx. Similarly for d2y/dx2.
Reply 13
ghostwalker
So, by the chain rule:

dydu=dydx×dxdu\displaystyle\frac{dy}{du}=\frac{dy}{dx}\times \frac{dx}{du}


=dydx×eu\displaystyle=\frac{dy}{dx}\times e^u

dydu=xdydx\displaystyle\frac{dy}{du}=x\frac{dy}{dx}

and just substitute that in.

For the second derivative, using product rule and chain rule:

d2ydu2=d2ydx2×(dxdu)2+dydx×d2xdu2\displaystyle\frac{d^2y}{du^2}=\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} \times \left(\frac{dx}{du}\right)^2+\frac{dy}{dx}\times \frac{d^2x}{du^2}

Can you take it from there?

Edit: You don't actually need to find dy/dx, just the terms involving dy/dx, which in this case is x dy/dx. Similarly for d2y/dx2.


ok I have ended up with something like this:

d2ydx2=ddx(eudydu)[br]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=\frac{d}{dx}(e^{-u}\frac{dy}{du})[br]

whic gives me
d2ydx2=dudxddu(eudydu)[br]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=\frac{du}{dx}\frac{d}{du}(e^{-u}\frac{dy}{du})[br]
du/dx=e^-u



which gives me using the product rule:

d2ydx2=eu(eudydu+eud2ydu2)[br]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=e^{-u}(-e^{-u}\frac{dy}{du}+e^{-u}\frac{d^2y}{du^2})[br]
I should then able to tidy it up.would that be right?
rbnphlp



which gives me using the product rule:

d2ydx2=eu(eudydu+eud2ydu2)[br]\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}=e^{-u}(-e^{-u}\frac{dy}{du}+e^{-u}\frac{d^2y}{du^2})[br]
I should then able to tidy it up.would that be right?



Yep, looks good.
Reply 15
thanks

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