abortion at 24 weeks is murder.
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Original post by Tommyjw
And many people do not. Hence why a UK poll agrees.
So do countless people In parliament and the people they consult about it, given , with medical advice and expertise, they have chosen not to lower the time frame multiple times now, including two fairly recent times.
Religious is not an 'objective view'. Religious is a subjective view based upon a religion, not upon science and facts.
So do countless people In parliament and the people they consult about it, given , with medical advice and expertise, they have chosen not to lower the time frame multiple times now, including two fairly recent times.
Religious is not an 'objective view'. Religious is a subjective view based upon a religion, not upon science and facts.
Did you misread me?
I said your view was objective under the legal definition of murder , in this country, according to British common law (even before the Abortion Act was passed it was not legally murder but a lesser crime)
I know that religions have a different view but I believe in absolute objective truth and I believe that truth includes that abortion is an act of murder.
You may believe differently. Law, majority popular opinion and majority medical opinion does disagree with me but I believe this is because of the falling away from God and Christianity in the Western world in the 20th Century. If there is a God and He made us, there will be an objective truth and it will still be true if every human being on Earth disagreed- "Let God be true and every man a liar."
Original post by ScheduleII
Did you misread me?
I said your view was objective under the legal definition of murder , in this country, according to British common law (even before the Abortion Act was passed it was not legally murder but a lesser crime)
I know that religions have a different view but I believe in absolute objective truth and I believe that truth includes that abortion is an act of murder.
You may believe differently. Law, majority popular opinion and majority medical opinion does disagree with me but I believe this is because of the falling away from God and Christianity in the Western world in the 20th Century. If there is a God and He made us, there will be an objective truth and it will still be true if every human being on Earth disagreed- "Let God be true and every man a liar."
I said your view was objective under the legal definition of murder , in this country, according to British common law (even before the Abortion Act was passed it was not legally murder but a lesser crime)
I know that religions have a different view but I believe in absolute objective truth and I believe that truth includes that abortion is an act of murder.
You may believe differently. Law, majority popular opinion and majority medical opinion does disagree with me but I believe this is because of the falling away from God and Christianity in the Western world in the 20th Century. If there is a God and He made us, there will be an objective truth and it will still be true if every human being on Earth disagreed- "Let God be true and every man a liar."
Hands up if you predicted that religion would be brought into this.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
okay....whilst I do completely agree with you...I'm going to say this only once :
You are wasting your time posting about it on TSR.
I've been on this site a LOOOOOONG time, trust me, I know what I'm talking about. You're just going to end up getting negged to high heaven, and having a butt-load of people disagreeing with you.
Your opinion is valid, but nobody else wants to hear it on here. You might as well go and smash your head on a brick wall right now and save yourself a bit of time doing it later.
I don't debate abortions on TSR any more! Gave up several years ago.
You are wasting your time posting about it on TSR.
I've been on this site a LOOOOOONG time, trust me, I know what I'm talking about. You're just going to end up getting negged to high heaven, and having a butt-load of people disagreeing with you.
Your opinion is valid, but nobody else wants to hear it on here. You might as well go and smash your head on a brick wall right now and save yourself a bit of time doing it later.
I don't debate abortions on TSR any more! Gave up several years ago.
well, it certainly is shocking to behold the lack of humanity on here. there doesn't seem to be any empathy or reverence for life itself. life is reduced to its component parts are spoken about in robotic terms.
what disturbs me most is the amount of females who use this cold scientific language to discuss life. i would have thought females would at least have had more understanding and more empathy with life. but sadly some of the most cruel and life denying comments have been from females.
whats scary is where is this going to end? if human life in the womb can be so dehumanised and readily 'terminated' for convenience sake then what next?
Original post by hay.hay
Do you think it is an easy decision for a woman to have to make to abort her child at this late of a stage?
People don't generally carry their baby for 6 months before just deciding they don't want it anymore. Abortions at that late stage are normally because the child will be born with a severe disability or continuing the pregnancy will seriously harm the mother. The parent will have been looking forward to and planning for their child when they are given the news that their child may have no quality of life and quite often they will have literally days to decide what to do. That is heart breaking. It is a horrible decision for any parent to have to make, not one that will be taken lightely and certainly not one for which they should be judged for.
People don't generally carry their baby for 6 months before just deciding they don't want it anymore. Abortions at that late stage are normally because the child will be born with a severe disability or continuing the pregnancy will seriously harm the mother. The parent will have been looking forward to and planning for their child when they are given the news that their child may have no quality of life and quite often they will have literally days to decide what to do. That is heart breaking. It is a horrible decision for any parent to have to make, not one that will be taken lightely and certainly not one for which they should be judged for.
And besides, I have never heard of anyone actually looking forward to going for an abortion appointment. It's not like anyone could possibly be like "Yippee, happy day, time for that abortion I was looking forward to!" with a smile on their faces. No matter what stage it is, abortion will have an impact on the mother. Personally, if I wanted a baby, but was told that my child's health was in danger and wouldn't survive at 24 weeks, I would abort it, rather than go through the trauma of giving birth to it still-born.
women rarely have abortions at that late stage, if they do it's normally due to medical complications, as in the woman may die/have severe harm caused to her if she has the baby.
Yes, 24 weeks is probably too late, and many people do think it should be removed. But seriously, would you say it's better for a 20 week 'baby' to be aborted, or for it to be born and have a terrible life, and inflict stress and other negative emotions to everyone close to it? Sometimes, like when putting down animals, abortion can be the kindest thing.
It is murder unless it's child that would suffer when born, women who do it because a child would be inconvenient are monsters.
The only time it can be justified is if there is a medical reason, a life is a life.
The only time it can be justified is if there is a medical reason, a life is a life.
(edited 12 years ago)
At the end of the day it's the choice of the woman what she wants to do with her baby inside of her, no one else's. If at 23 weeks she decides she can't go through with it because she doesn't want to or isn't ready to have a baby i think it's her choice and one which should be respected as it's her who is going to look after that child, no one else.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by lulubel
well, it certainly is shocking to behold the lack of humanity on here. there doesn't seem to be any empathy or reverence for life itself. life is reduced to its component parts are spoken about in robotic terms.
what disturbs me most is the amount of females who use this cold scientific language to discuss life. i would have thought females would at least have had more understanding and more empathy with life. but sadly some of the most cruel and life denying comments have been from females.
whats scary is where is this going to end? if human life in the womb can be so dehumanised and readily 'terminated' for convenience sake then what next?
what disturbs me most is the amount of females who use this cold scientific language to discuss life. i would have thought females would at least have had more understanding and more empathy with life. but sadly some of the most cruel and life denying comments have been from females.
whats scary is where is this going to end? if human life in the womb can be so dehumanised and readily 'terminated' for convenience sake then what next?
that's the way of the world I'm afraid. You will learn, as you get older, that just because you hold an opinion, doesn't mean that if you bellow about it loud enough that you will be able to convert people to your way of thinking. Millions have tried, few have succeeded.
What about a person in a persistent coma, with little or no brain activity, no evidence of consciousness or thought?
Also, I don't think it's very fair to say a foetus is 'just something growing inside you'. By the time you even know you are pregnant, the foetus has it's own unique genetic material, it's own separate blood type, and so on. A seriously ill old person or someone in a coma is in no position to 'ask' for the care they need, or to make the decision of whether their life support stays on - that is up to the family.
It has a brain - is that something separate to the mind? You're going to come into a lot of problems if you try to make that distinction. It's genes and the experiences it has already had in the womb so far will have already shaped it's brain development and begun to create the person it will become, it's not just a mindless object like a tree.
Also, I don't think it's very fair to say a foetus is 'just something growing inside you'. By the time you even know you are pregnant, the foetus has it's own unique genetic material, it's own separate blood type, and so on. A seriously ill old person or someone in a coma is in no position to 'ask' for the care they need, or to make the decision of whether their life support stays on - that is up to the family.
It has a brain - is that something separate to the mind? You're going to come into a lot of problems if you try to make that distinction. It's genes and the experiences it has already had in the womb so far will have already shaped it's brain development and begun to create the person it will become, it's not just a mindless object like a tree.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
that's the way of the world I'm afraid. You will learn, as you get older, that just because you hold an opinion, doesn't mean that if you bellow about it loud enough that you will be able to convert people to your way of thinking. Millions have tried, few have succeeded.
well, abortion never used to be legal. if people do not change society then who does?
Depends on the person and the circumstance, you can't have a 'THIS IS FINAL' type rule for this kinda thing because it doesn't take all situations into consideration - just look at the OP's argument, s/he has done it them self!
Original post by lulubel
well, abortion never used to be legal. if people do not change society then who does?
well shouting about it on TSR at least isn't going to get you anywhere. If you want to shout, shout in the right places.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
well shouting about it on TSR at least isn't going to get you anywhere. If you want to shout, shout in the right places.
What right places? Standing around the entrance to the abortion clinic harassing already traumatized women?
Does no-one realize that an abortion at 24 weeks is a dangerous and complicated procedure that no-one in their right mind would do for no significant reason? Or that by banning or restricting abortions within healthcare setting won't stop some women from having them?
Original post by AutVinceriAutMori
What right places? Standing around the entrance to the abortion clinic harassing already traumatized women?
obviously not, don't be ridiculous.
It's a legal issue obviously. If the OP wants to change the law, she should be directing her opinions to the people that make them. Obviously. I could say "obviously" a few more times if you like, because it's completely obvious!
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
obviously not, don't be ridiculous.
It's a legal issue obviously. If the OP wants to change the law, she should be directing her opinions to the people that make them. Obviously. I could say "obviously" a few more times if you like, because it's completely obvious!
It's a legal issue obviously. If the OP wants to change the law, she should be directing her opinions to the people that make them. Obviously. I could say "obviously" a few more times if you like, because it's completely obvious!
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
With regards to law, there is plenty of red tape around abortion as it is, and there are people who want to introduce new restrictions on late abortions, if not complete ban.
Although most pro-lifers do prefer harassing women outside clinics.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
obviously not, don't be ridiculous.
It's a legal issue obviously. If the OP wants to change the law, she should be directing her opinions to the people that make them. Obviously. I could say "obviously" a few more times if you like, because it's completely obvious!
It's a legal issue obviously. If the OP wants to change the law, she should be directing her opinions to the people that make them. Obviously. I could say "obviously" a few more times if you like, because it's completely obvious!
Most pro lifers see it as a moral issue at least as much, as the law is unlikely to change but if you get people to believe it is immoral they likely won't do it. Obviously, stopping someone outside a Marie Stopes clinic may save an unborn baby, BUT counter-protesting near Parliament against the feminists with pink "defend 24 weeks" and "my body my choice" signs will not.
Original post by ScheduleII
Most pro lifers see it as a moral issue at least as much, as the law is unlikely to change but if you get people to believe it is immoral they likely won't do it. Obviously, stopping someone outside a Marie Stopes clinic may save an unborn baby, BUT counter-protesting near Parliament against the feminists with pink "defend 24 weeks" and "my body my choice" signs will not.
Yet TSR is neither of these places, thus I fail to see why the OP is protesting on here.
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
Yet TSR is neither of these places, thus I fail to see why the OP is protesting on here.
just because i bring up a debate on here it does not mean this is where my debate ends.
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