Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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You get what you pay for. If private schools aren't better. Then what justifies their fees?
Why is it NOT fair?
Our parents pay for our state school education through taxes. The parents of pupils at private school pay for theirs directly, and they also make their tax contributions. So they're paying extra. If you pay extra for a service, do you not expect to get a better service?
No, it's not an ideal situation, but it seems fair to me. It would be great if kids all had access to the top education. But that's really difficult to orchestrate, as state school are government funded so naturally aren't particularly well off.
I think it's fair, but I also think it needs to change.
Our parents pay for our state school education through taxes. The parents of pupils at private school pay for theirs directly, and they also make their tax contributions. So they're paying extra. If you pay extra for a service, do you not expect to get a better service?
No, it's not an ideal situation, but it seems fair to me. It would be great if kids all had access to the top education. But that's really difficult to orchestrate, as state school are government funded so naturally aren't particularly well off.
I think it's fair, but I also think it needs to change.
Why should it be fair? Life's not fair...
Hi I have on 3 ocassions been offered admittance to a good private school with a scolarship. On 3 occassions I have turned this offer down simple reason neither my parents nor myself can afford 5000 a year for an education you CAN get for free. Before you all attack and say a private education is better I believe that this is irrelevant if you are either smart or hard working. I attained 10a* and 2a at GCSE and would like to point out the a's were in english lit (I hate it and couldn't be bothered) and a subject I self taught. In the year above mine there were two girls with 9a* 2a and a boy with 11a*. I am not trying to show off but simply prove a point. I am currently in a sixth form college holding two offers to read Medicine in september and reasonably expecting A*AAa. I am well rounded and self motivated I do not study all day and I have fun. You don't have to go private to suceed and furthermore a few years back my parents could afford it and still they would have made the same decision. If you can suceed in a class of 30 you can suceed in a class of 10.
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I think it's more a sociological thing than anything. For state schools, some reasons why some people don't do as well:
- Parents might not support them (in terms of encouragement) as much as they would do if they were at private school
- The type of students that are there could either help people up, or drag people down
- Some of these kids (and teachers!) don't really care about education and rather be doing something else
In my honest opinion, I wouldn't see why people can't excel in state schools, as it's down to how well you're motivated and willing to learn against certain situations you may see less in private schools (I'm all assuming as I've never been to a private school).
Private schools, I would assume parents play quite an important role in the child's learning and development, encouraging them to work very well, due to this, classmates would be quite motivated and actively encourage each other to succeed, thereby making it an ideal learning environment? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
This seems one sided (and I don't know why because I do go to a state school LOL) but obviously I'm not implying state school children fail due to the reasons above, as I know so many people (and myself) who are exceptions to the rule, but thinking about it, if your parents sent you to a private school (and paying X amount of money per term) they wouldn't want you slacking off and wasting their money!
- Parents might not support them (in terms of encouragement) as much as they would do if they were at private school
- The type of students that are there could either help people up, or drag people down
- Some of these kids (and teachers!) don't really care about education and rather be doing something else
In my honest opinion, I wouldn't see why people can't excel in state schools, as it's down to how well you're motivated and willing to learn against certain situations you may see less in private schools (I'm all assuming as I've never been to a private school).
Private schools, I would assume parents play quite an important role in the child's learning and development, encouraging them to work very well, due to this, classmates would be quite motivated and actively encourage each other to succeed, thereby making it an ideal learning environment? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
This seems one sided (and I don't know why because I do go to a state school LOL) but obviously I'm not implying state school children fail due to the reasons above, as I know so many people (and myself) who are exceptions to the rule, but thinking about it, if your parents sent you to a private school (and paying X amount of money per term) they wouldn't want you slacking off and wasting their money!
Original post by jadpan
Hi I have on 3 ocassions been offered admittance to a good private school with a scolarship. On 3 occassions I have turned this offer down simple reason neither my parents nor myself can afford 5000 a year for an education you CAN get for free. Before you all attack and say a private education is better I believe that this is irrelevant if you are either smart or hard working. I attained 10a* and 2a at GCSE and would like to point out the a's were in english lit (I hate it and couldn't be bothered) and a subject I self taught. In the year above mine there were two girls with 9a* 2a and a boy with 11a*. I am not trying to show off but simply prove a point. I am currently in a sixth form college holding two offers to read Medicine in september and reasonably expecting A*AAa. I am well rounded and self motivated I do not study all day and I have fun. You don't have to go private to suceed and furthermore a few years back my parents could afford it and still they would have made the same decision. If you can suceed in a class of 30 you can suceed in a class of 10.
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Definitely agree with you on that; I just think there's probably less distractions in private school, but that shouldn't be a hurdle for those willing to succeed.
So many people on this thread have absolutely no idea how different a state comprehensive is to a private school...
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Original post by rlscope
Why is it NOT fair?
Our parents pay for our state school education through taxes. The parents of pupils at private school pay for theirs directly, and they also make their tax contributions. So they're paying extra. If you pay extra for a service, do you not expect to get a better service?
No, it's not an ideal situation, but it seems fair to me. It would be great if kids all had access to the top education. But that's really difficult to orchestrate, as state school are government funded so naturally aren't particularly well off.
I think it's fair, but I also think it needs to change.
Our parents pay for our state school education through taxes. The parents of pupils at private school pay for theirs directly, and they also make their tax contributions. So they're paying extra. If you pay extra for a service, do you not expect to get a better service?
No, it's not an ideal situation, but it seems fair to me. It would be great if kids all had access to the top education. But that's really difficult to orchestrate, as state school are government funded so naturally aren't particularly well off.
I think it's fair, but I also think it needs to change.
Yes but the best education shouldn't be wasted on thick rich kids just so they can please their thick rich parents by going to a Russell Group university, securing the family pride for yet another generation. It's nonsense.
Education should be there to improve the quality of your life to your heart's content (in other words, work hard and you'll be rewarded), and to enable the brainiest to see how we can make the world a better place. Instead, it's the preserve of the middle class.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Jsouassou
Definitely agree with you on that; I just think there's probably less distractions in private school, but that shouldn't be a hurdle for those willing to succeed.
It also shows a certain skill to suceed despite distraction etc.
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Original post by jadpan
Definitely, but until I go to a private school, there's no way of me accurately differentiating the two.
I don't know much about private schools but I would say that public schools can also be split - ones with good teachers and resources and ones without.
My sister went to one with good teachers and resources and got 10 A*. However, I know many people who didn't go to a great school but had so much to offer - they just weren't directed in the right direction.
My sister went to one with good teachers and resources and got 10 A*. However, I know many people who didn't go to a great school but had so much to offer - they just weren't directed in the right direction.
private schools = have more money = better resources, better remuneration hence attract better teaches, an environment where children want to learn/compete to outperform peers rather than stigmatising educational prowess as they do in some state schools.
However, i don't think they teach in a way which makes the students 'smarter' per se, because when both students meet in university, the former do not tend to always outperform the state schooled students. I think a lot of it has to do with mental attitude of the private schooled children and the fact that many state schooled students feel they can just sit there and learn rather than taking pro-active steps to improve their own intellect i.e. Rather than seeing homework as a chore, they see it as opportunity to get ahead of the rest of the class...
Sorry about the caps...
However, i don't think they teach in a way which makes the students 'smarter' per se, because when both students meet in university, the former do not tend to always outperform the state schooled students. I think a lot of it has to do with mental attitude of the private schooled children and the fact that many state schooled students feel they can just sit there and learn rather than taking pro-active steps to improve their own intellect i.e. Rather than seeing homework as a chore, they see it as opportunity to get ahead of the rest of the class...
Sorry about the caps...
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
That's capitalism for you! But I completely agree, I come from a rural Welsh state school, of the five in my year that applied to Oxbridge, one got in and she has practically lived and breathed the subject for the past two years to the point that she's had zero social life. I myself achieved 10A* at GCSE but didn't touch the higher echelon of Law Schools when applying to Univeristy, because when I visited, it just wasn't my thing.
With regards to why can't state schools copy this kind of education. Class sizes are a large factor. My A Level German class was only 3, not because of funding but because there was a lack of demand and the speed at which we recieved feedback on work and the contact time we had with our teacher was far superior to anything I could've dreamed of in my other subjects of around 18 per class. What's more I might be as bold to say that those receiving private education have a different attitude *some* of those in state education. Although I'm sure many here will debate that. At the end of the day, for those that cannot afford it it's best to try our utmost to succeed in a society that is still glaringly elitist yet preaches a society of diversity and equality. Welcome to modern day Britain. Haha
Original post by JamesTheCool
Yes but the best education shouldn't be wasted on thick rich kids just so they can please their thick rich parents by going to a Russell Group university, securing the family pride for yet another generation. It's nonsense.
Education should be there to improve the quality of your life to your heart's content (in other words, work hard and you'll be rewarded), and to enable the brainiest to see how we can make the world a better place. Instead, it's the preserve of the middle class.
Education should be there to improve the quality of your life to your heart's content (in other words, work hard and you'll be rewarded), and to enable the brainiest to see how we can make the world a better place. Instead, it's the preserve of the middle class.
I agree to an extent, although I don't think the education being wasted is determined by how bright the kids are, but rather their attitude towards learning.
However, not all rich kids in private schools only go to Russell group unis for the sake of 'family pride'. You can't make blanket statements against them; it's not their fault that the system is kinda screwed up.
Don't know if this has been said before in this thread, but it's not even as if it's as simple as private versus state schools. There's a massive division between the better and worse state schools as well. I've always thought it odd that my mum is so against the very thought of private schools and yet moved house so I would have more chance of getting into the better state school. Pretty much the same thing in my opinion - using affluence as a means to a better education. The more prosperous the area, generally the better the school and vice-versa, due to a number of factors. It's not as simple as making the one division between state and private schools.
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinions or situations e.g "I went to a private school and failed all of my GCSEs" here are some facts taken from the BBC and elsewhere.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government." ~ Nick Clegg
I think we should live in a society where everyone is given the same teaching time, class size and therefore opportunity. I work so hard and I'm predicted to get AAB on results day. Which is at the top for my school. However, at a private school that's probably average. However, when you are from a normal school like myself, universities take that into consideration. Appreciating the effort that went into those grades. And everyone saying 'your parents should have done better then' my dad has a good job, however is a single parent to 3 children. It's circumstance.
Original post by Barksy
Private property and ownership is needed for capitalism. It's one of the very first things you are taught in economics. Take that base away and the whole thing crumbles.
That doesn't really answer the question though. There are historical examples both of market economies without privately owned means of prouction, and of non-market economies with privately owned means of production.
I can sympathise with anarcho-capitalists but not your brand.
'Anarcho-capitalist' is an oxymoron.
And by the way I got 7A's and 3A*'s at GCSE and I didn't go to a private school, I earned mine off my own back and hard work
it's not fair. I don't know what makes you think life is fair at all.
Well, the problem is how **** state schools are, rather than people being allowed to pay for private education. The people that pay know how bad all these state schools are and want tot get away, fair play to them. I went to a state school, managed a few B's. It's pretty hard to do better than a C when you're taught "this is how you get a C". You're never motivated to get grades beyond that, it's almost as though they don't exist. A C is the holy grail.
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