Would you have a relationship with a transgender person?

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You see, I do not need to study this topic for me to know that what I am saying is true. I am saying that 'man' and 'woman' are societal terms. So far nobody has said that they are unequivocally scientific terms that can be changed at the will of the medical establishment (that would be truly foolish). Therefore, the meaning of them, the definition of them, depends of what society considers them to be - in the same way that society chooses to define what other words mean.

I do not need a degree to know that most of society agress with me. I live my life as an unbiased member of society. I know that other people, mostly, define 'man' as an adult male, and 'woman' as an adult female. That is all I am discussing, I do not need to do research to know that - just as we are aware of other obvious opinions of the public and their views on certain issues.

You see, I do not need to study this topic for me to know that what I am saying is true.

That's really not a good choice of opening line.

I would, don't really see the problem as long as they don't try to hide it.
If they were open to me that they were a male who use to be female, I'd be casual about it. But if they weren't and I clocked in the bedroom what was going on, I'd be pissed!

This is the last I'm going to comment on this. For you see, you are wrong. Nobody cares what you, sociologists, psychologists or scientists say a 'man' is. I, and almost everyone else, see a man as an adult male. This is what matters. Go make a large survey! I live with the average people of society, I know what your "average Joe" believes a man to be. Nobody defines a word off of 'subconscious' recognitions and thoughts - that is wishful thinking on your part. Perhaps if it is a word created by the psychology community, but it isn't! You cannot decide or convince yourself what the average person things, no matter how badly you want to! You cannot change this - it can only change if the views of those people change.

You studied psychology/sociology, and researhed transgenderism etc. etc. You WOULD argue that 'man' refers to a gender role, or so much that you want to believe to be true about society in regards to transgenderism is untrue. You are biased - your opinion means no more than mine. Of course, with all the time you have invested into the topic, you will not admit this. That would mean that you have convinced yourself, or deluded yourself, of something utterly unproveable, and unaccepted by society (I'm talking about the definition of 'man', as a reminder).

The only thing that matters when referring to non-scientific words like 'man' and 'woman' are what society defines them as, what their original meaning was, and the way that people use them in conversation. You can try and deny this, you can try and repeat your meaningless reasons why this is wrong, but it changes nothing. YOU cannot decide the definitions of words, nor can any other "psychologists".

You are in denile. The meaning of a word, and what it means to western society, is not up for debate. I'm sorry if the definition that society has given a word for over a thousand years upset you - but new considerations and discoveries by scientists change nothing - although you clearly want them to.

I don't plan on replying to you again. Inevitably, you will only say the same irrelevant, narrow-minded, and self-assured comments you have given time and time again. Of course, you probably think I am narrow-minded! You would say that obviously, as you believe I am wrong in my definition of 'man' and 'woman'. But I cannot be wrong in a definition - as that is what the vast majority consider those words to mean. Despite your desperations for the opposite to be true, you, nor sociologists, can decide the meaning of a word that does not belong to sociology/psychology.

Go on the streets. Ask people about what they consider a 'man' to be. You are so detached from society, and what society thinks 'man' and 'woman' are defined as. You need to consider things seperate to your emotions and desires - and try not to let what you want society to believe to cloud the truth of what we/society truly do believe. Just because you have a relevant degree does not give you the right to tell people the meaning of 'man' and 'woman' - the English language belongs to the English people & those in the rest of the world, not a biased minority to which you belong.



Actually it is. I do not need to study transgenderism to know what the average person considers a 'man' to be. Just like I do not need to do research into what the average person considers a 'child', 'light', or 'apple' to be.

Just because the majority think something, doesn't make it right. (I imagine most people do think a man is an adult male, but many(/most?) people would also say that someone born as a female can transition to become a man. So it's really not as simple as you claim.)
Back in the everyone thought being gay was totally wrong, or that different races were inferior- we now know that not to be true. I hope you'll become enlightened one day too!

This is the last I'm going to comment on this. For you see, you are wrong. Nobody cares what you, sociologists, psychologists or scientists say a 'man' is. I, and almost everyone else, see a man as an adult male. This is what matters. Go make a large survey! I live with the average people of society, I know what your "average Joe" believes a man to be. Nobody defines a word off of 'subconscious' recognitions and thoughts - that is wishful thinking on your part. Perhaps if it is a word created by the psychology community, but it isn't! You cannot decide or convince yourself what the average person things, no matter how badly you want to! You cannot change this - it can only change if the views of those people change.

You studied psychology/sociology, and researhed transgenderism etc. etc. You WOULD argue that 'man' refers to a gender role, or so much that you want to believe to be true about society in regards to transgenderism is untrue. You are biased - your opinion means no more than mine. Of course, with all the time you have invested into the topic, you will not admit this. That would mean that you have convinced yourself, or deluded yourself, of something utterly unproveable, and unaccepted by society (I'm talking about the definition of 'man', as a reminder).

The only thing that matters when referring to non-scientific words like 'man' and 'woman' are what society defines them as, what their original meaning was, and the way that people use them in conversation. You can try and deny this, you can try and repeat your meaningless reasons why this is wrong, but it changes nothing. YOU cannot decide the definitions of words, nor can any other "psychologists".

You are in denile. The meaning of a word, and what it means to western society, is not up for debate. I'm sorry if the definition that society has given a word for over a thousand years upset you - but new considerations and discoveries by scientists change nothing - although you clearly want them to.

I don't plan on replying to you again. Inevitably, you will only say the same irrelevant, narrow-minded, and self-assured comments you have given time and time again. Of course, you probably think I am narrow-minded! You would say that obviously, as you believe I am wrong in my definition of 'man' and 'woman'. But I cannot be wrong in a definition - as that is what the vast majority consider those words to mean. Despite your desperations for the opposite to be true, you, nor sociologists, can decide the meaning of a word that does not belong to sociology/psychology.

Go on the streets. Ask people about what they consider a 'man' to be. You are so detached from society, and what society thinks 'man' and 'woman' are defined as. You need to consider things seperate to your emotions and desires - and try not to let what you want society to believe to cloud the truth of what we/society truly do believe. Just because you have a relevant degree does not give you the right to tell people the meaning of 'man' and 'woman' - the English language belongs to the English people & those in the rest of the world, not a biased minority to which you belong.



Actually it is. I do not need to study transgenderism to know what the average person considers a 'man' to be. Just like I do not need to do research into what the average person considers a 'child', 'light', or 'apple' to be.

How can a definition be wrong?A word means what it means, regardless of whether you want it to mean that or not.

That's a silly question. As was stated just because the majority of people think man is representative of sex that doesn't mean that's what it actually means. You said yourself "a word means what it means regardless of whether you want it to mean that or not"


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Who is to say it means otherwise? The words have existed for over a thousand years. When did their meanings (according to you) suddenly change? And who has the authority to change them? You cannot debate the definition of a word like that. The fact is you just don't like the definition, so you say it is wrong. You clearly need a word of your own to fill your definition of what 'man' and 'woman' means - because otherwise your shouts that the majority are wrong are irrelevant.

I would say that those who have studied the subject to see what the words actually entail and imply are the ones who can say otherwise. An unsurprisingly studies have been done. And also unsurprisingly they have shown over and over gain that what constitutes a 'man' has nothing to do with sex both historically and in modern times in fact the majority if people in the world couldn't agree on what constitutes a 'man' because of how different the standards are in many cultures.

All your shouts are rather embarrassing for yourself a you are saying that a man is someone who is male because thy have a penis. So...it has already been pointed out that is flawed. Not too mention your argument from the majority doesn't make sense. As then there isn't really a man or woman because it's all based on what the majority see as a man and woman.

The fact is that a man is not someone who has a penis or xy chromosomes and not even biologically male. Your claiming otherwise is just blatantly false and your refusal to accept academic and evidence based claims only make you look a fool.

The word used to describe these things is 'gender'. It has been explained many times in the course of this thread. You have yet to provide any kid of credible argument to go against it so really I don't need a we term but rather you need to learn what makes sense.

Yes, I would.

Just out of interest, when would you say is the appropriate time to share this information...first sight? first date? third date? Just before you sleep together?

I would date a trans* person, I am dating a trans* person, I am a trans* person.

"I define being male as possessing male genitalia. If you were born with it, then you were born male. Simple as that." (paraphrased)