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Sexist Women only hours in gyms
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It's probably the effect of a couple of stupidly long days in a row, but I read the thread title as:
Sexy Women only hours in gyms.
Nice.
Sexy Women only hours in gyms.
Nice.
Original post by Sheldor
Does the gym have any demand for one? Are there any physical differences which would mean they would have more customers if they had such a section? If a mens only section was profitable, they woukd have one. This is driven by money, not sexism.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
I think you'll find I was debating the 'gender pay gap myth' which whilst I'll agree is off topic to this thread, wasn't originally raised by me.
Or perhaps you meant to quote someone else?
I'd feel more uncomfortable in an entire gym of females 
Original post by marcusfox
I think you'll find I was debating the 'gender pay gap myth' which whilst I'll agree is off topic to this thread, wasn't originally raised by me.
Or perhaps you meant to quote someone else?
Or perhaps you meant to quote someone else?
Sorry, that was directed at someone else. Still getting used too the Android app.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by marcusfox
Conspiracy:
1 - A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
2 - The action of plotting or conspiring.
You are saying that the reason that women's pay is lower is because employers are conspiring against women.
1 - A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
2 - The action of plotting or conspiring.
You are saying that the reason that women's pay is lower is because employers are conspiring against women.
No I'm not. In fact I never said or thought anything of the sort. I think if any sexism does exist then it's very individual and not necessarily even consciously thought about by the employer.
So can we assume that you accept every one of my nine points about why the gender pay gap is a myth, and that my logic is sound, given that you didn't make any effort to debate them?
Women insist on travelling shorter distances to work, they insist on flexible hours, they insist on taking jobs where they don't move about a lot, they take jobs that are less dangerous and dirty than men, they take qualifications that are of less value to employers, they refuse to move for promotions etc.
Women insist on travelling shorter distances to work, they insist on flexible hours, they insist on taking jobs where they don't move about a lot, they take jobs that are less dangerous and dirty than men, they take qualifications that are of less value to employers, they refuse to move for promotions etc.
Haven't you read any of my posts at all? Maybe you're accidentally quoting me while you're debating with someone else? YES I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND I AM ALSO TELLING YOU THAT EVEN AFTER TAKING THOSE POINTS INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS STILL A PERCENTAGE OF THE PAY GAP THAT IS LEFT UNEXPLAINED.
You blame it on discrimination, but if it's discrimination then how on earth do you explain that statistics show that female owned businesses make on average half of male owned businesses? There's no discrimination when you are your own boss, the success lies solely on your shoulders.
Sexism surely?
Sexism surely?
I have never blamed it on discrimination, I said it could be either due to discrimination or due to some factors that haven't been taken into account yet.
Do YOU think it can't possibly be due to discrimination?
Original post by Dragonfly07
No I'm not. In fact I never said or thought anything of the sort. I think if any sexism does exist then it's very individual and not necessarily even consciously thought about by the employer.
So why do you think sexism applies (as a factor) across the board in a 'gender pay gap' then?
Original post by Dragonfly07
Haven't you read any of my posts at all? Maybe you're accidentally quoting me while you're debating with someone else? YES I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND I AM ALSO TELLING YOU THAT EVEN AFTER TAKING THOSE POINTS INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS STILL A PERCENTAGE OF THE PAY GAP THAT IS LEFT UNEXPLAINED.
Care to hazard a guess at what those 'unexplained factors might be'?
There is no way in hell that anyone can possibly determine exactly how much of a percentage gap is due to which factor in the myriad of different circumstances and situations specific to the tens of millions of men and women employed in the US and UK where claims of a 'gender pay gap' exist, with different factors weighted more in different circumstances and situations than than others. You can just about say that the factors exist, that's it.
Given those considerations, I'd say anyone's on pretty thin ice determining how much of a specific percentage gap is due to unexplained factors, evidence you haven't considered and/or discrimination.
If you want to come up with other specific factors that apply, then fine, do so, but you can't just say that 'EVEN AFTER TAKING THOSE POINTS INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS STILL A PERCENTAGE OF THE PAY GAP THAT IS LEFT UNEXPLAINED'. That's just speculative nonsense.
Original post by Dragonfly07
I have never blamed it on discrimination, I said it could be either due to discrimination or due to some factors that haven't been taken into account yet.
Is blaming it on discrimination.
Original post by Dragonfly07
Do YOU think it can't possibly be due to discrimination?
Of course there are going to be circumstances where men discriminate against women, just like where women discriminate against men.
But any pay gap is more effectively explained by the factors I've stated, rather than saying that because we can't explain it any other way, it must be due to some unexplained factor or discrimination.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by marcusfox
So why do you think sexism applies (as a factor) across the board in a 'gender pay gap' then?
Because I'm not "across the board" and you should stop making assumptions.
Care to hazard a guess at what those 'unexplained factors might be'?
There is no way in hell that anyone can possibly determine exactly how much of a percentage gap is due to which factor in the myriad of different circumstances and situations specific to the tens of millions of men and women employed in the US and UK where claims of a 'gender pay gap' exist, with different factors weighted more in different circumstances and situations than than others. You can just about say that the factors exist, that's it.
Given those considerations, I'd say anyone's on pretty thin ice determining how much of a specific percentage gap is due to unexplained factors, evidence you haven't considered and/or discrimination.
If you want to come up with other specific factors that apply, then fine, do so, but you can't just say that 'EVEN AFTER TAKING THOSE POINTS INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS STILL A PERCENTAGE OF THE PAY GAP THAT IS LEFT UNEXPLAINED'. That's just speculative nonsense.
Is blaming it on discrimination.
Of course there are going to be circumstances where men discriminate against women, just like where women discriminate against men.
But any pay gap is more effectively explained by the factors I've stated, rather than saying that because we can't explain it any other way, it must be due to some unexplained factor or discrimination.
There is no way in hell that anyone can possibly determine exactly how much of a percentage gap is due to which factor in the myriad of different circumstances and situations specific to the tens of millions of men and women employed in the US and UK where claims of a 'gender pay gap' exist, with different factors weighted more in different circumstances and situations than than others. You can just about say that the factors exist, that's it.
Given those considerations, I'd say anyone's on pretty thin ice determining how much of a specific percentage gap is due to unexplained factors, evidence you haven't considered and/or discrimination.
If you want to come up with other specific factors that apply, then fine, do so, but you can't just say that 'EVEN AFTER TAKING THOSE POINTS INTO ACCOUNT THERE IS STILL A PERCENTAGE OF THE PAY GAP THAT IS LEFT UNEXPLAINED'. That's just speculative nonsense.
Is blaming it on discrimination.
Of course there are going to be circumstances where men discriminate against women, just like where women discriminate against men.
But any pay gap is more effectively explained by the factors I've stated, rather than saying that because we can't explain it any other way, it must be due to some unexplained factor or discrimination.
That thing you call "speculative nonsense" happens to be statistics. Do you know how those statistics are calculated or should I explain that to you as well?
Since you ignored my post again and again made the assumption that I'm blaming the unexplained pay gap on discrimination despite the fact that I explicitly told you three times that it's not the case, I'm going to give up now and just assume it's a bull**** way for you to pretty much say "no, I don't think there's any way discrimination could possibly be a factor in the pay gap".
Thank you for your response that's all I wanted to know.
Surely it's just seen as good business? And given how overweight a nation the UK is, no bad thing if it's women going to a gym who would not go otherwise?
It's not sexism - it is business strategy. Gyms are designed to make a profit. If having a women's only hour will increase their profits then that is what they will do. If having a men's only hour will increase their profits then they would do that too - but clearly there isn't enough demand for this to be profitable (in general). I do agree that it is unfair for people who will not attend the women only hours (i.e men, and women who don't mind exercising around men) have to pay the same amount though. It would probably be best to have 2 different prices - one for everyone who does not wish/does not qualify to go to women's only hours, and one price for the women who do wish to have admission during these hours.
Original post by Dragonfly07
Because I'm not "across the board" and you should stop making assumptions.
That thing you call "speculative nonsense" happens to be statistics. Do you know how those statistics are calculated or should I explain that to you as well?
Since you ignored my post again and again made the assumption that I'm blaming the unexplained pay gap on discrimination despite the fact that I explicitly told you three times that it's not the case, I'm going to give up now and just assume it's a bull**** way for you to pretty much say "no, I don't think there's any way discrimination could possibly be a factor in the pay gap".
Thank you for your response that's all I wanted to know.
That thing you call "speculative nonsense" happens to be statistics. Do you know how those statistics are calculated or should I explain that to you as well?
Since you ignored my post again and again made the assumption that I'm blaming the unexplained pay gap on discrimination despite the fact that I explicitly told you three times that it's not the case, I'm going to give up now and just assume it's a bull**** way for you to pretty much say "no, I don't think there's any way discrimination could possibly be a factor in the pay gap".
Thank you for your response that's all I wanted to know.
No, but you can point me to where these statistics giving different weighting to the millions of different circumstances for millions of different people in millions of different jobs by millions of different employers can be found so I can take a look.
Otherwise explain to me how much of a weighing you would give in each case and why, so we can see how much is due to 'unexplained factors'.
1 - Men are more likely to choose careers that are more dangerous.
2 - Men are more likely to work in higher-paying fields and occupations (by choice)
3 - Men are more likely to take work in uncomfortable, isolated and undesireable locations
4 - Men work longer hours than women do.
5 - Men are more likely to take jobs that require work on evenings and weekends
6 - Even within the same career category, men are more likely to pursue high-stress and higher paid areas of specialisation
7 - Unmarried women who have never had a child actually earn more than unmarried men.
8 - anything else you can think of?
9 - Discrimination?
If you can't, you'll just have to admit that each weighting is different in each specific case amongst the millions of employed persons and that trying to determine any specific percentage weighting overall from each factor is plain nonsense.
They have managed to explain 80-85% of the pay gap and conceded that the remaining 10-15% could be due to factors that they haven't considered or due to discrimination. You can't just say "it's probably because of x" without evidence.
So a housewife with three kids and no qualifications on £14,000 working flexible hours for the local council in her home town is underpaid by X% compared to a single male executive of the same age in the oil industry on £80,000 for a 50 hour week, with postgraduate degree and many years of experience, commuting two hours to work each day once all these explainable factors have been taken into account.
You have given a specific percentage for what the unexplained pay gap should be (10-15%). Why? How much is due to each of the factors above, and how much is due to unexplained factors? How did they arrive at that figure, and why it isn't much higher or much lower? Doesn't the paper go into that much detail?
I don't put much hope in the author of that paper as a statistician, because if you've quoted from that paper verbatim, there's a remaining 15-20%, not 10-15%. Simple maths.
You have a case of confirmation bias. You want to believe that there is an unjustified pay gap beyong the reasons I've already pointed out to you (who knows why - feminist dogma?) and you seek to cling onto the fact that there is such an unjustified gap by finding that there is some sort of unjustifiable gap due to 'unexplained factors' and possibly discrimination, although you won't be drawn on what those mystical 'unexplained factors' might be or how much exists due to discrimination, or even whether men discriminate against women more than the other way around.
You said that an unexplained portion of the of the pay gap exists and that's not down to factors I put forward, but on unexplained factors due to some statistical calculation that is unavailable to you [no evidence?] or that you are not willing to share. That's like saying that because we can't explain everything with science, it must have been done by the fairies because someone told you that must be the case.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by JC.
Why should someone who believes in sky faries impact on those of us that arn't interested?
At the Gym I go to there are women only slots but all the guys just carry on regardless and noone says anything.
At the Gym I go to there are women only slots but all the guys just carry on regardless and noone says anything.
Does it really impact you though? It's 2 hours a week tops. Are you really going to become obese without those 2 hours?
Original post by ArabellaBellucci
it would be 100% better if they just had a women's only section like most gyms do.
Why do women need their own section? Genuine question.
Original post by Converse Rocker
Why do women need their own section? Genuine question.
Any number of reasons:
1 - They don't like men to watch their jiggly bits jiggle.
2 - They don't want men to see them sweaty and unnatractive
3 - They don't want to be hit on by men whilst they work out
4 - They have a religious belief that prohibits being uncovered in the presence of men, and it's quite difficult to work out in some types of religious dress
Probably more, but those are what come to mind right away.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Converse Rocker
Why do women need their own section? Genuine question.
Apparently if makes it difficult for them to workout when I'm sporting a hard on
WHAT ABOUT ME!?!! do you know how dangerous dead lifting with a stiffy is???
Original post by You Failed
Does it really impact you though? It's 2 hours a week tops. Are you really going to become obese without those 2 hours?
It would impact me actually were it not for the lax attitudes at my gym.
I run my own business so my free time is rather limited.
Original post by Bored_troll
I find it sexist and offensive that women get special treatment in gyms when they pay the same amount as men do.
I notice most gyms have special hours for women where men are banned from using the gym. There is a notice up on the wall of my gym saying "all males must leave this area, between X hours"
It is outrageous how women always go on about equality but want special treatment when it suits them.
Some people try arguing that some women don’t feel comfortable working out when men are around, but that can be said about some men.
There are lot of men who do not have good bodies and feel insecure about working out in front of women but no one makes men only hours to suit their needs!
Men are being short changed here, not only from sexism but paying the same price as women to use the gym yet being restricted on the hours.
When are men going to stand up to sexist double standard behaviour towards them? Modern men are spineless cowards.
This women only gym hours is against the law.
I notice most gyms have special hours for women where men are banned from using the gym. There is a notice up on the wall of my gym saying "all males must leave this area, between X hours"
It is outrageous how women always go on about equality but want special treatment when it suits them.
Some people try arguing that some women don’t feel comfortable working out when men are around, but that can be said about some men.
There are lot of men who do not have good bodies and feel insecure about working out in front of women but no one makes men only hours to suit their needs!
Men are being short changed here, not only from sexism but paying the same price as women to use the gym yet being restricted on the hours.
When are men going to stand up to sexist double standard behaviour towards them? Modern men are spineless cowards.
This women only gym hours is against the law.
Its simple- men in the gym, especially groups of young men, are intimidating to women in the gym for many reasons
how do I know this? discussed it with women, another issue is being stared at by men, which understandably puts them off their workout and makes them feel uncomfortable
Original post by badcheesecrispy
Its simple- men in the gym, especially groups of young men, are intimidating to women in the gym for many reasons
how do I know this? discussed it with women, another issue is being stared at by men, which understandably puts them off their workout and makes them feel uncomfortable
how do I know this? discussed it with women, another issue is being stared at by men, which understandably puts them off their workout and makes them feel uncomfortable
Perhaps they shouldn't go in skintight leggings that are almost see through if they don't want to be stared at
Men who are intimidated by groups of men are told to get over it. Equality dictates that women should be told the same
Original post by Mess.
Perhaps they shouldn't go in skintight leggings that are almost see through if they don't want to be stared at
Men who are intimidated by groups of men are told to get over it. Equality dictates that women should be told the same
Men who are intimidated by groups of men are told to get over it. Equality dictates that women should be told the same
What should they work out in, bin bags?
your saying women should dress in unsuitable clothes in the gym so men dont leer at them?
views like that are exactly why many women dont want to go to the gym with men
im a guy, and even I understand it
Most people dont want to be stared at or have remarks made about their bodies whilst exercising, this effects women more than men for obvious reasons
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