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Would You Ever Accept A Muslim UK Prime Minister?

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Reply 80
I've got nothing specific against an islamic PM. I just don't think our leaders should have any religious faith, and it would be a point against them in their campaign for my vote.

For a radical religious nut though, I would do everything I could to stop them being elected...however much or little that could be :redface:
Reply 81
I'd accept whoever the majority voted into power.

It doesn't necessarily mean I'd opt to spend my vote on them or not. Many people consider themselves religious in a lax way, including many in politics and it doesn't make a huge change. If you're referring specifically to radicals and very religious people, being an atheist, I wouldn't vote for them. I'd make the effort to accept anyone, though.
Reply 82
Original post by consumed by stuff
My bad I didn't know that in a country where homosexuality is illegal, women had so much freedom.


How is that even related? You claim that women are forced into wearing hijab and then you just decide to throw in "hey homosexuality is banned". That is a completely different matter and have nothing to do with women at all. and the curious look was more meant to be "wth".

Sexuality and the freedom of women are two completely different matters?
:lolwut: <---Maybe this one is more appropriate.
Reply 83
Original post by Bookie123
Yes and the ones that live in Islamic societies, a lot of them also have a choice. Until you go to an Islamic society, for example Tunisia where NO ONE wears hijab, the country that is 99% Muslim, don't make claims about people "forcing" hijab because it's just ignorance. Until you speak to a muslim woman and she tells you directly to your face that she feels forced and you find out that this is the majority, then don't because there are many that say they have chosen to do it. Even in the Islamic countries. I am not denying some people are forced, but it is not in the islamic religion to force women to do anything. It is in the culture of some muslims but it is not in Islam. Don't conflate the two.


even in places like Afghanistan where laws were passed to make it illegal for women not to wear it?

I would love to believe that the majority of women across the globe are not forced or bullied into wearing it, however i think far too high a number are unfortunatly. Even in britain, you hear of schoolgirls taking it off on the way to school and putting it on again before they get home so their parents dont know.

Not against hijab or the burqua but it should be personal choice and for many many women it is not.

(I agree this is mostly cultural in the middle eastern countries though, like you say it isnt written in islam that women should do)
Original post by Bookie123
How is that even related? You claim that women are forced into wearing hijab and then you just decide to throw in "hey homosexuality is banned". That is a completely different matter and have nothing to do with women at all. and the curious look was more meant to be "wth".

Sexuality and the freedom of women are two completely different matters?
:lolwut: <---Maybe this one is more appropriate.


Sexuality and the freedom of women are just two heads of the same dragon. They are both sections of society that have found human rights slot later than is acceptable. In associety that doesn't accept homosexuality because of religion or cultural gender roles. It will never fully accept women as equal.
Reply 85
I can always rely on tsr to be consistent in its obsession with Muslims.
Original post by Bookie123
Why is that?

Surely, someone that was religious would be much better, if they were properly religious, they would have certain morals that they feel they have to keep and thus would be a better PM surely. They wouldn't lie, or cheat people, they would aim to sort out all the poverty and what not, they wouldn't start wars with other countries nor invade them for oil...etc. They would be honest and just...surely. So why not a religious person? an atheist won't have the fear of God and can actually just do whatever they like..ofc not every atheist is corrupt, but some are and they have their own subjective morality where as religion gives the fear of God and thus an objective morality which says not to do these things.

Why is atheist PM better? Out of curiosity :smile:


Tony Blair was Christian - you do know this, right?

Personally, that is what politics is all about - many, if not most, politicians lie and cheat or at least, acts close to this. Ergo, I would venture to say that politics and religion would not mix well, especially being the leader of a mostly secular nation.

How would a Christian person deal with the hard issues that would be asked of a leader? What about war? What about benefits issues and whatnot? Our current PM is supposedly Christian (but aren't they all anyway?)?
Original post by style
I can always rely on tsr to be consistent in its obsession with Muslims.


It isn't.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It wouldn't happen suddenly; there would be a long build-up, first they would stand for election as party leader, then a long period in opposition (presumably), then a general election - so everyone would get used to them, their views and policies would be thoroughly explored and so would their faith. Against that background, it's implausible they would be elected unless they were pretty widely accepted and considered acceptable, so the issue of their religion would also by that time have been accepted.

I say all this because the simple way OP puts the question makes it sound totally hypothetical but it also opens the door to simplistic, abusive posts denigrating Islam, which presumably was OPs intention all along, as we've seen from his many similar posts.


I do beg your pardon? :curious:

Original post by Bookie123
That is why i said "properly religious", if someone was properly religious then yes this would come into the argument as they would uphold to these morals as they would be God fearing people. Not everyone is properly religious. I am talking about those who are.


If someone was "properly religious", then they damned well should not be leading this country! If someone truly believed in strange unverified things and took the mystical "words" of an invisible (indeed, unverified) being, then they should not at all be the leader of this free nation. What occurs if they do dealings with non-Christian nations? What occurs in time of hard decisions like firing off a nuclear weapon? What if they decide to work on Biblical prophecy and then influence events occurring in the Middle East in this manner (as Biblical prophecy centers around the region)?
Reply 89
Original post by fudgemuffins
Why are all of the prime ministers religious to some degree? Can't we have rational people running the country?

I suspect they at least have to be nominally Christian to secure the older and perhaps traditional, conservative, middle-class vote. Both are pretty important in winning an election.
Reply 90
As long as this Muslim prime minister is not biased and all his/her choices are for the country as a whole with the goals of improving our country and society.
Original post by Steevee
Because Islam is a fundamentalist religion, whereas the vast majority of Christians in Britain are Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican etc which are reasonably progressive parts of Christianity, and even a lot of the Catholics are reasonably progressive.


Islam is not a fundamentalist religion. Islamic fundamentalism exists, however that is a completely separate issue. And if you are choosing to recognise different branches within Christianity, why are you lumping all Muslims into one category? There is diversity within Islam too, from various Sunni sects to Ismailis.
Reply 92
Original post by Mathaddict
Islam is not a fundamentalist religion. Islamic fundamentalism exists, however that is a completely separate issue. And if you are choosing to recognise different branches within Christianity, why are you lumping all Muslims into one category? There is diversity within Islam too, from various Sunni sects to Ismailis.

How many branches of Islam fully support secularism though? I'm only going off what I've read of Orhan Pamuk and Khaled Hosseini but I am under the impression that Islam and secularism do not work that well together. I'd appreciate your take on it.
Reply 93
Original post by HumanSupremacist
Would you ever accept a Muslim UK Prime Minister?

Similarly, would you ever accept a radical Christian UK Prime Minister?

(Emphasis on the radical for the latter PM.)

Thoughts?

P.S.
Note that this Muslim PM could be of any ethnicity.


how can you not accept someone as a prime minister?
I would not vote for any extremest religious leaders as they most probably would lead to divisive domestic and foreign policy choices.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 94
Original post by Mathaddict
Islam is not a fundamentalist religion. Islamic fundamentalism exists, however that is a completely separate issue. And if you are choosing to recognise different branches within Christianity, why are you lumping all Muslims into one category? There is diversity within Islam too, from various Sunni sects to Ismailis.


Islam has not undergone an enlightenment, the vast majority of Muslims in the world are Sunni, and the vast majority of them are fundamentalist. Fundamentalism is a strict adherence to doctrine. In the Western world, the vast majority of Christians are not fundamentalist.

Islam, by and large, is still a fundamentalist religion. This does not mean all Muslims are fundamentalist, but the majority are.
Original post by Steevee
Islam has not undergone an enlightenment, the vast majority of Muslims in the world are Sunni, and the vast majority of them are fundamentalist. Fundamentalism is a strict adherence to doctrine. In the Western world, the vast majority of Christians are not fundamentalist.

Islam, by and large, is still a fundamentalist religion. This does not mean all Muslims are fundamentalist, but the majority are.


That is a hugely generalised and outdated statement that does not fairly represent modern Islam today. Islamic fundamentalists follow the Quran strictly and literally, without much consideration for 21st century developments. However Modernists, more prominent in today's society, are able to recognise change and adapt their beliefs accordingly, just as various Christian groups have been able to. As for the "vast majority of Muslims" being Sunni: as I said, not all "Sunnis" share the same beliefs. There is about as much diversity within the Sunni group as there is within Catholicism.

Original post by Ronove
How many branches of Islam fully support secularism though? I'm only going off what I've read of Orhan Pamuk and Khaled Hosseini but I am under the impression that Islam and secularism do not work that well together. I'd appreciate your take on it.


With respect, while I believe Pamuk and Hosseini are great writers, their views on Islam do not necessarily represent the reality globally (I'm not sure if they themselves even have that intention).

I suppose it is all about interpretation of the religion (an issue which has existed with the monotheistic religions since their inception). As far as I'm concerned - and I know this might be disputed - but for all its flaws, Islam promotes peace, tolerance and acceptance of other groups. An early example of this being exercised (though admittedly not perfectly and not totally fairly) is when the Moors ruled large parts of Spain for centuries. Groups of different ethnicities and religions were able to coexist in harmony, which was far more progressive than what existed anywhere else at the time.

I certainly believe it's possible for a Muslim leader to be secular - however, I am not naive. I concede that there is always the danger of this person not being secular: I would hope that we as the electorate would be exposed to that before bringing this person to power. Even if they were in power though, they couldn't possibly pass bills and new legislation based on religion in Parliament?
(edited 11 years ago)
Yes

The country is f***ed anyway, doesn't make a difference who we vote for/gets elected
Reply 97
As long as the leave their faith at home then I don't mind what religion they are.
Reply 99
Original post by Mathaddict
That is a hugely generalised and outdated statement that does not fairly represent modern Islam today. Islamic fundamentalists follow the Quran strictly and literally, without much consideration for 21st century developments. However Modernists, more prominent in today's society, are able to recognise change and adapt their beliefs accordingly, just as various Christian groups have been able to. As for the "vast majority of Muslims" being Sunni: as I said, not all "Sunnis" share the same beliefs. There is about as much diversity within the Sunni group as there is within Catholicism.




Muslims are required to believe the Quran is the literal word of God. The majority still believe they are required to pray 5 times daily etc. When comapred to Christianity, Islam is a fundamentalist religion. It's not a criticsm in and of itself, don't be so defensive.

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