Can I dispute a police caution?
Basically, I'm currently detained in hospital under section 3 of the mental health act. A few weeks ago I was being restrained and I accidently kicked a nurse. She's pressed charges and the police have also been out to take my statement. We don't know exactly what's going to happen yet, but if they were to give me a caution could I appeal it and go to court instead? I don't want anything on my record especially for something I did not do intentionally; I was also dissociating at the time. I told the police this but she said that the staff have said I was fully aware of what I was doing.
Does anybody know what's likely to happen?
Thanks
Does anybody know what's likely to happen?
Thanks
They can't "give you" a caution, you have to agree to it, and I don't think you can appeal it later. You should talk to a solicitor.
Very difficult to challenge a caution and most successful challenges relate to the procedure not being followed properly.
If you accept a caution, you are essentially admitting the offence. I'd seek legal advice.
If you accept a caution, you are essentially admitting the offence. I'd seek legal advice.
Yes, do seek legal advice - accepting a caution means that you are accepting guilt, and it can have knock on effects later on e.g. if you wanted to go the USA. I appreciate that it may be harder for you to seek legal advice in person if you are currently sectioned, so I would suggest phoning the CAB http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm
The police really ought to be making sure the OP is represented whenever they speak to her.
Original post by Origami Bullets
Yes, do seek legal advice - accepting a caution means that you are accepting guilt, and it can have knock on effects later on e.g. if you wanted to go the USA. I appreciate that it may be harder for you to seek legal advice in person if you are currently sectioned, so I would suggest phoning the CAB http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm
Exactly. I'm not prepared to admit guilt and therefore I'm going to appeal it. I want to be a nurse and I certainly don't want a criminal record.
Original post by InnerTemple
The police really ought to be making sure the OP is represented whenever they speak to her.
I agree. OP, did you have an appropriate adult there when you were interviewed by the police, or were you in a room alone with them?
Where did you kick her, and how hard?
Unless there was more to the incident than you have said (I'm not saying there is), it seems very petty of her to press charges. She should know the risks of being a mental health nurse. Of course that doesn't mean she is obligated to accept physical assault, but personally, depending on damage, I would almost never consider charging someone for kicking me, I'd just get over it.
Legally I can't help directly, but you should certainly have access to legal advice. Do you have any friends or family outside who could arrange it for you? Good luck, anyway.
Unless there was more to the incident than you have said (I'm not saying there is), it seems very petty of her to press charges. She should know the risks of being a mental health nurse. Of course that doesn't mean she is obligated to accept physical assault, but personally, depending on damage, I would almost never consider charging someone for kicking me, I'd just get over it.
Legally I can't help directly, but you should certainly have access to legal advice. Do you have any friends or family outside who could arrange it for you? Good luck, anyway.
I was in there on my own. The extent of the damage, as far as I know, was a bruise on her knee.
The basic issue is, if you refuse to accept a caution are you likely to 1. be charged 2. be convicted if you are charged. If you are likely to be charged and convicted you should accept the caution; otherwise, perhaps not, and it's in the police's interest to pressure you to accept the caution even if they don't think they can charge you. So what you should do depends on the circumstances and on the law and only a lawyer can really advise you in this regard. Don't sign anything or admit to anything or give any statement to the police without a solicitor present; they should be obliged to provide you with one.
It does seem petty of her to press charges over a bruise. No one should have to put up with being kicked, surely she is in the wrong area of nursing if she wants docile patients as I would assume in a mental hospital there would be more need to restrain patients for treatment than most? Only from my experience. Did you apologise to her?
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Original post by Octohedral
Where did you kick her, and how hard?
Unless there was more to the incident than you have said (I'm not saying there is), it seems very petty of her to press charges. She should know the risks of being a mental health nurse.
Unless there was more to the incident than you have said (I'm not saying there is), it seems very petty of her to press charges. She should know the risks of being a mental health nurse.
This. The OP may well have lacked the mens rea to commit an offence.
If there is a charge of negligence to be made, it should be made against the health facility for lack of proper training / equipment etc
Original post by Observatory
The basic issue is, if you refuse to accept a caution are you likely to 1. be charged 2. be convicted if you are charged. If you are likely to be charged and convicted you should accept the caution; otherwise, perhaps not, and it's in the police's interest to pressure you to accept the caution even if they don't think they can charge you.
The police don't seem to be taking into account that the OP is a vulnerable individual, and so I very much doubt they could sustain such a charge/caution if the OP was not cognisant of her actions at the time.
Maybe. That's just the OP's version of events however and if a lot of doctors tell a court that she was actually aware of her actions and in full control that might be hard to dispute.
Yes I have apologised a million times and all she says is he doesn't accept it.
Thanks for the replies so far.
Thanks for the replies so far.
Original post by headunderwater
Exactly. I'm not prepared to admit guilt and therefore I'm going to appeal it. I want to be a nurse and I certainly don't want a criminal record.
If you have already accepted a caution, then you have effectively admitted guilt and it may be very hard to have it overturned. However if you were not made aware of the fact that you can actually refuse to accept a caution, then you might be able to appeal it on grounds that you were coerced into it.
If you have not yet accepted a caution, then just stick to your guns and continue to refuse it and protest your innocence. Let the police charge you. Chances are, for something so minor and with virtually no evidence to suggest that it was anything other than an accident, the CPS will just throw the case out immediately.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by headunderwater
I was in there on my own. The extent of the damage, as far as I know, was a bruise on her knee.
As you are a vulnerable adult (if someone who has been sectioned isn't classed as a vulnerable adult, then I don't know who is) then the police should have had an appropriate adult in there with you when you were interviewed. If you didn't have an AA there, then I very much doubt that they could bring a case against you in court, so the CPS won't let it get that far.
Ring the CAB, as I suggested above, tell them that there was no appropriate adult there, and ask for advice with regards to your options. And you have a right to a lawyer: use it.
Can I ask you a question?
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