About the feminization of education
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Competition breeds success. Look at the Space Race!
If a girl does it better than a guy then she shouldn't be ostracised for being female. Genuinely though, we should return to exam-based qualifications. Coursework is like communism - fine in theory, but when applied you see naught but cheating by teachers and students alike. People say exams are just memory tests - then change the mark schemes to allow correct answers to fill the boxes, not just accredited mark schemes. For example, at A-Level Biology, I can put down a degree level answer and not get marks for it because it isn't what's on the spec. That's the wrong attitude. We should encourage the best to put down higher-level answers rather than restricting them to what's on the spec. Who cares if it isn't fair to stupid kids? We need the best, not the mediocre.
From what I've been told by medics at university, there isn't room for a non-competitive environment. They say it's quite different to GCSE because of this.
When it comes down to it though, all feminists are stupid and demeaning. Campaign not for female rights but for equal rights.
If a girl does it better than a guy then she shouldn't be ostracised for being female. Genuinely though, we should return to exam-based qualifications. Coursework is like communism - fine in theory, but when applied you see naught but cheating by teachers and students alike. People say exams are just memory tests - then change the mark schemes to allow correct answers to fill the boxes, not just accredited mark schemes. For example, at A-Level Biology, I can put down a degree level answer and not get marks for it because it isn't what's on the spec. That's the wrong attitude. We should encourage the best to put down higher-level answers rather than restricting them to what's on the spec. Who cares if it isn't fair to stupid kids? We need the best, not the mediocre.
From what I've been told by medics at university, there isn't room for a non-competitive environment. They say it's quite different to GCSE because of this.
When it comes down to it though, all feminists are stupid and demeaning. Campaign not for female rights but for equal rights.
Original post by Algorithm69
Yeah I've read many studies that show the complete opposite to what redferry is saying. I don't believe her "source" for a second.
Peer reviewed papers that account for socialisation please.
Honestly I have looking for one for months.
Original post by redferry
Nope, as a prominent neuroscientist pointed out the week, we socialise kids to have these differences so all that needs doing is for parents to socialise their boys to have the skill sets needed to perform well in school.
So you dont believe is a competitive problem solving style education? Why?
Is it because you are female, and simply want a feminized style education that favours females rather than males? If we had this sort of education focusing on competitiveness, i bet you would not be telling parents that they need to socially educate their daughters better. You are sexist.
Nothing of what you said in any of the posts in this thread directly addresses the topic or tackles the problem of underachiving schoolboys. - saying parents need to socially educate their sons better is not a answer, unless you are prepared to say that parents should of socially educated their daughters better 50 years ago to achieve at school.
Come on, show me you arent sexist.
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(edited 10 years ago)
How is it feminised? You still get exams anyway and in Scotland, subjects are mainly exam based with a little bit of coursework that doesn't even count for much. Easier probably but that doesn't equate to feminised? Uni work is based on coursework mainly is that feminine too?
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Original post by dead101
How is it feminised? You still get exams anyway and in Scotland, subjects are mainly exam based with a little bit of coursework that doesn't even count for much. Easier probably but that doesn't equate to feminised? Uni work is based on coursework mainly is that feminine too?
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With more women than men now going university, I think the stats speak for themselves.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
I find the double standards when it comes to gender inequalities to be hilarious.
When men are outperforming women by some measure, people always moan that it's due to patriarchal discrimination, eg more male CEOs than female CEOs.
However, when women do better (eg, with grades at school), nobody complains about it, and people say that it must simply be because girls are better.
When men are outperforming women by some measure, people always moan that it's due to patriarchal discrimination, eg more male CEOs than female CEOs.
However, when women do better (eg, with grades at school), nobody complains about it, and people say that it must simply be because girls are better.
But that's the thing, if girls are outperforming boys in school, even accounting for different educational needs it shows that girls are entirely capable of taking more top jobs in society... and yet they don't. Surely there's something wrong there to stop some of the brightest students being as ambitious as they could be?
Even if school is geared towards females, work - which is what really matters and takes up a larger proportion of a person's life - is still very much geared towards men. For all those girls performing well at school and going on to universities, what percentage of academics are female?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
With more women than men now going university, I think the stats speak for themselves.
Got any references? Plus the government change the education system based on what they think is best, not to make it more feminine. Maybe guys should get a grip and study then if that's the case.
So was it masculine before? If so, how is that fair to girls then? Or wait I get it, you're just pissed girls are being given equal opportunities and doing better eh.
Original post by Bella_trixxx
But that's the thing, if girls are outperforming boys in school, even accounting for different educational needs it shows that girls are entirely capable of taking more top jobs in society... and yet they don't. Surely there's something wrong there to stop some of the brightest students being as ambitious as they could be?
Just because the top 50% of girls might outperform the top 50% of boys, this doesn't mean that the top 1% of girls will out perform the top 1% of boys. In fact it is well known that the standard deviation of male IQ is greater than that of females (meaning greater men at the top and bottom of the scale compared to women), and thus it is expected that more males will take on top jobs, despite the average female perhaps performing better than the average male.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by dead101
Got any references? Plus the government change the education system based on what they think is best, not to make it more feminine. Maybe guys should get a grip and study then if that's the case.
So was it masculine before? If so, how is that fair to girls then? Or wait I get it, you're just pissed girls are being given equal opportunities and doing better eh.
So was it masculine before? If so, how is that fair to girls then? Or wait I get it, you're just pissed girls are being given equal opportunities and doing better eh.
Girls can't have equal opportunities to boys, but somehow be doing better. That does not make sense.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10608739/Boys-being-left-behind-as-university-gender-gap-widens.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10449864/UCAS-chief-warns-over-worrying-university-gender-gap.html
http://www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2013/jan/29/how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/women-are-now-a-third-more-likely-than-men-to-opt-to-go-to-university-according-to-ucas-application-figures-9097135.html
http://www.brightknowledge.org/knowledge-bank/education-pathways/why-are-more-girls-going-to-university-than-boys
Funny you should say 'guys should get a grip'. Not only is that sexist and edging on misandry, but also what people were saying to women 50 years ago. You have in a way, just reinforced my point.
The government do not make changes in the educational system to 'make it better'. They do it because of political ideology and what will get them more votes. There is a reason why we have many parties with many different educational policies. They target different parts of the electorate.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
Girls can't have equal opportunities to boys, but somehow be doing better. That does not make sense.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10608739/Boys-being-left-behind-as-university-gender-gap-widens.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10449864/UCAS-chief-warns-over-worrying-university-gender-gap.html
http://www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2013/jan/29/how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/women-are-now-a-third-more-likely-than-men-to-opt-to-go-to-university-according-to-ucas-application-figures-9097135.html
http://www.brightknowledge.org/knowledge-bank/education-pathways/why-are-more-girls-going-to-university-than-boys
Funny you should say 'guys should get a grip'. Not only is that sexist and edging on misandry, but also what people were saying to women 50 years ago. You have in a way, just reinforced my point.
The government do not make changes in the educational system to 'make it better'. They do it because of political ideology and what will get them more votes. There is a reason why we have many parties with many different educational policies. They target different parts of the electorate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10608739/Boys-being-left-behind-as-university-gender-gap-widens.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10449864/UCAS-chief-warns-over-worrying-university-gender-gap.html
http://www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2013/jan/29/how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/women-are-now-a-third-more-likely-than-men-to-opt-to-go-to-university-according-to-ucas-application-figures-9097135.html
http://www.brightknowledge.org/knowledge-bank/education-pathways/why-are-more-girls-going-to-university-than-boys
Funny you should say 'guys should get a grip'. Not only is that sexist and edging on misandry, but also what people were saying to women 50 years ago. You have in a way, just reinforced my point.
The government do not make changes in the educational system to 'make it better'. They do it because of political ideology and what will get them more votes. There is a reason why we have many parties with many different educational policies. They target different parts of the electorate.
Yes because they think their idea is the best so that's why they do it? So yeah they do change it for the better in their eyes.
And yes you can have equal opportunities then do better - it's an equal chance, what you do with it is up to you.
Yes because for years women were oppressed by men literally, not just having men do better by chance/lack of effort - like what's happening now, so yeah get a grip. Now that women are being given a chance and they're doing better they're being told it's unfair and the system favours them? Funny how you haven't said anything about the favouring of men years ago, but it's okay when it's that way about, right?
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Surely by that logic, purely exam-based qualifications are unfairly geared towards the strengths of males?
I don't really care either way, but it's about a balance IMO. Exams and coursework show different skill sets, so why shouldn't both count towards some qualifications?
I'll admit that I'm not sure how much coursework counts now - but I'm sure that when I was doing my exams, coursework never accounted for more than 20-25% of the overall grade? I thought that was fair, even if I didn't like coursework and much preferred exams.
Anyway, we're assuming that girls' performance has got better because of restructuring. What about other factors, eg. girls now feel they have the opportunity to go and get good jobs, so put more effort into gaining good qualifications?
I don't really care either way, but it's about a balance IMO. Exams and coursework show different skill sets, so why shouldn't both count towards some qualifications?
I'll admit that I'm not sure how much coursework counts now - but I'm sure that when I was doing my exams, coursework never accounted for more than 20-25% of the overall grade? I thought that was fair, even if I didn't like coursework and much preferred exams.
Anyway, we're assuming that girls' performance has got better because of restructuring. What about other factors, eg. girls now feel they have the opportunity to go and get good jobs, so put more effort into gaining good qualifications?
Original post by dead101
Yes because they think their idea is the best so that's why they do it? So yeah they do change it for the better in their eyes.
And yes you can have equal opportunities then do better - it's an equal chance, what you do with it is up to you.
Yes because for years women were oppressed by men literally, not just having men do better by chance/lack of effort - like what's happening now, so yeah get a grip. Now that women are being given a chance and they're doing better they're being told it's unfair and the system favours them? Funny how you haven't said anything about the favouring of men years ago, but it's okay when it's that way about, right?
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And yes you can have equal opportunities then do better - it's an equal chance, what you do with it is up to you.
Yes because for years women were oppressed by men literally, not just having men do better by chance/lack of effort - like what's happening now, so yeah get a grip. Now that women are being given a chance and they're doing better they're being told it's unfair and the system favours them? Funny how you haven't said anything about the favouring of men years ago, but it's okay when it's that way about, right?
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Apart from as the statistics show, in my links, men are not being given an equal chance. This is because of the way under 18 year old boys are taught and as a result of this, less boys are having the opportunity to go to University. So we don't have equality of opportunity at all.
A Feminized education system favours only women. What we had 50 years ago favoured men. I'm not advocated either, and it is not because I have some 'patriarchal agenda' that I am pointing out men are being left behind because of the current educational system.
"get a grip".. I guess you are a sexist then. That or incredibly patronising and rude. Why is it that because I am a man I can't have a say and have to "get a grip". How incredibly insulting.
Original post by the mezzil
So you dont believe is a competitive problem solving style education? Why?
Is it because you are female, and simply want a feminized style education that favours females rather than males? If we had this sort of education focusing on competitiveness, i bet you would not be telling parents that they need to socially educate their daughters better. You are sexist.
Nothing of what you said in any of the posts in this thread directly addresses the topic or tackles the problem of underachiving schoolboys. - saying parents need to socially educate their sons better is not a answer, unless you are prepared to say that parents should of socially educated their daughters better 50 years ago to achieve at school.
Come on, show me you arent sexist.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is it because you are female, and simply want a feminized style education that favours females rather than males? If we had this sort of education focusing on competitiveness, i bet you would not be telling parents that they need to socially educate their daughters better. You are sexist.
Nothing of what you said in any of the posts in this thread directly addresses the topic or tackles the problem of underachiving schoolboys. - saying parents need to socially educate their sons better is not a answer, unless you are prepared to say that parents should of socially educated their daughters better 50 years ago to achieve at school.
Come on, show me you arent sexist.
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I'd rule at competitiveness, I am really competitive. I am a girl with a male brain so I hold the opinion most of it is just upbringing. That's all there is to it really.
Original post by Jophesxi
No, not at all. I feel like this is some sort of ploy to downplay the achievements of girls/women in education.
It is! There are so many academic articles out there about this, the 'failing boys' rhetoric that purports that not only are girls doing better these days (which ist even necessarily the case - it is only really white, middle class women who have seen the big changes) but they are apparently doing so at the expense of boys.
Ever since women began to numerically dominate UK universities, due to feminist driven gains, this kind of rhetoric began seeping its way into the media and educational policy.
It only obscures the truth, once they get into education, women face a slew of disadvantages - there have been studies that have shown that teachers often favour male students and pay them more individual attention, for example. Girls are socialised away from subjects that typically lead to the highest earnings. When they get to uni level, they have to contend with an overwhelming 'lad culture' that sees women only as sex objects. They also have to contend with institutionalised sexism from lecturers and uni staff, making inappropriate 'jokes', for example. Sexual violence rates were found by the NUS to be extremely high in UK unis, and rarely reported because of the perception (which can't come from nowhere) that unis wouldn't do anything about it. Then there's also the fact that if you're a non-white women, you ha've this disadvantage on two levels to deal with.
This 'failing boy's' thing is part of a wider backlash that happens whenever feminism appears to be making gains. It also happened in the early 90s for the same reasons. See 'Backlash' by Susan Faludi, educate yourself and realise that the media is largely controlled by white, well-off men, they seek to advance their own agendas, so it's not surprising they want to give voice to this boy's are disadvantaged at school because of feminists/girls idea, they don't want women to get too powerful now, do they...
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Original post by redferry
I'd rule at competitiveness, I am really competitive. I am a girl with a male brain so I hold the opinion most of it is just upbringing. That's all there is to it really.
What makes you say that you have a 'male brain'? Competitiveness is not a solely male trait, by any means.
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Original post by redferry
Nope, as a prominent neuroscientist pointed out the week, we socialise kids to have these differences so all that needs doing is for parents to socialise their boys to have the skill sets needed to perform well in school.
Yes of course. Boys should be brought up to be like girls obviously.
Original post by Antifazian
What makes you say that you have a 'male brain'? Competitiveness is not a solely male trait, by any means.
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Always got on better with men, always showed more characteristics associated with 'masculinity', struggled with my gender as a child because how I am combined with the fact I was a girl meant I didn't fit in.
Original post by Old_Simon
Yes of course. Boys should be brought up to be like girls obviously.
No. Just children should be brought up to have a mix of traits. No-one should be brought up like girls, girls are brought up stupidly.
The whole of society has become increasingly and now almost completely feminised from top to bottom. Education is one of the key battlegrounds in not only the feminist agenda but also religious minorities and a lot of other folk eg creationists. The one aspect of this change which is completely taboo is any kind of dialogue about what effect this has had on men.
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