Disabled person kills self due to benefit cuts.
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Yes and it's a deliberate shambles, the government know they have imposed rigid interpretations on Atos, the plan all along has been to cut costs regardless of impact. Atos are just tools in Ian Duncan-Smith's nasty little scheme, albeit they are willing, greedy tools.
It was obvious that there would be fatalities (there are probably already many more than are being reported) from this policy. Make no mistake, Duncan Smith is a knowing, pre-meditated murderer and so are all the other ministers concerned with this and the MPs who voted it through in Parliament.
It was obvious that there would be fatalities (there are probably already many more than are being reported) from this policy. Make no mistake, Duncan Smith is a knowing, pre-meditated murderer and so are all the other ministers concerned with this and the MPs who voted it through in Parliament.
For what its worth - their plan isn't to cut costs.
The amount being spent on disability benefits is actually rising.
The plan the current government has brought in (I'd say tories but that ignores the fact that the lib dems have voted in favour of this stuff too) has involved slicing out 20% of the expenditure and instead of giving it to claimants (who have been assessed using information from NHS and social services employees) and to give it to private companies like Atos and Capita to run discouraging and ineffective "assessment" centres.
That way the government not only get to outsource a bunch of public spending to the private sector but they build in a scapegoat to take the blame for their decisions as well as putting barriers in place that will discourage applicants for applying for the help and support they need.
The new systems for ESA and PIP (replacing IB and DLA) are costing more to taxpayers while delivering less to claimants. And so the pressure in the system ends up transferring elsewhere when disabled and ill people reach crisis point and end up falling back on social services (local government budget) or the NHS (health budget).
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Atos have just been dumped from the Fit to Work tests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26766345
The government claim they will not receive compensation. Time will tell how true that will turn out to be, given the history of supercontractors like Atos milking the taxpayer.
One thing that would really change all this is if ordinary people were able to bring class actions, like in the US, against these private companies operating government contracts. It's an appalling new reality of capitalism that corporations are now in charge of the daily lives of millions of poorer people (and they interact badly with middle class people in some important ways sanctioned by the state) and can ride roughshod over them. Ordinary citizens have little or no redress and their appeals are often arbitrarily brushed aside.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26766345
The government claim they will not receive compensation. Time will tell how true that will turn out to be, given the history of supercontractors like Atos milking the taxpayer.
One thing that would really change all this is if ordinary people were able to bring class actions, like in the US, against these private companies operating government contracts. It's an appalling new reality of capitalism that corporations are now in charge of the daily lives of millions of poorer people (and they interact badly with middle class people in some important ways sanctioned by the state) and can ride roughshod over them. Ordinary citizens have little or no redress and their appeals are often arbitrarily brushed aside.
My understanding was that Atos have been trying to walk away for a few years now.
The DWP have run an excellent campaign to shift blame for their admin decisions, IDS policy decision and Osbornes budget decisions onto Atos who were just doing *exactly* what they were asked to do.
With both ESA and PIP it is the DWP who sit down with the application form, supporting evidence and the assessment from Atos/Capita to make the decision about whether someone fits the criteria or not.
The DWP also set expectations to Atos on the proportions of people they expected to fit into each assessment category.
Original post by PQ
My understanding was that Atos have been trying to walk away for a few years now.
The DWP have run an excellent campaign to shift blame for their admin decisions, IDS policy decision and Osbornes budget decisions onto Atos who were just doing *exactly* what they were asked to do.
With both ESA and PIP it is the DWP who sit down with the application form, supporting evidence and the assessment from Atos/Capita to make the decision about whether someone fits the criteria or not.
The DWP also set expectations to Atos on the proportions of people they expected to fit into each assessment category.
The DWP have run an excellent campaign to shift blame for their admin decisions, IDS policy decision and Osbornes budget decisions onto Atos who were just doing *exactly* what they were asked to do.
With both ESA and PIP it is the DWP who sit down with the application form, supporting evidence and the assessment from Atos/Capita to make the decision about whether someone fits the criteria or not.
The DWP also set expectations to Atos on the proportions of people they expected to fit into each assessment category.
This.
Original post by DaveSmith99
Well as the job market is up **** creek it will have to be the second choice. What opportunities for creating employment do you think are available to someone with a serious illness and limited means?
5 years ago I was living with my parents and driving around in £200 worth of rusty jag and 50 quid in the world.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
Original post by PQ
My understanding was that Atos have been trying to walk away for a few years now.
The DWP have run an excellent campaign to shift blame for their admin decisions, IDS policy decision and Osbornes budget decisions onto Atos who were just doing *exactly* what they were asked to do.
With both ESA and PIP it is the DWP who sit down with the application form, supporting evidence and the assessment from Atos/Capita to make the decision about whether someone fits the criteria or not.
The DWP also set expectations to Atos on the proportions of people they expected to fit into each assessment category.
The DWP have run an excellent campaign to shift blame for their admin decisions, IDS policy decision and Osbornes budget decisions onto Atos who were just doing *exactly* what they were asked to do.
With both ESA and PIP it is the DWP who sit down with the application form, supporting evidence and the assessment from Atos/Capita to make the decision about whether someone fits the criteria or not.
The DWP also set expectations to Atos on the proportions of people they expected to fit into each assessment category.
Yes, for sure, part of contracting out such services is always to push government responsibility to 'arm's length' and make the public blame the contractor rather than ministers and the department. My point was that in the current legal framework, the government and their contractors like Atos want their cake and eat it - they want the profits of running gold-plated government contracts with no exposure to the sort of service standards and legal scrutiny they would come under in a normal commercial / service environment. Therefore the public should be able to take out legal class actions against companies like Atos, Capita, Serco and the rest of the shabby bunch of corporate thieves and parasites leeching of the taxpayer to run these substandard 'services'.
Original post by JC.
5 years ago I was living with my parents and driving around in £200 worth of rusty jag and 50 quid in the world.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
Lol, you sound like one of those cable TV adverts for pyramid selling schemes.
Original post by JC.
5 years ago I was living with my parents and driving around in £200 worth of rusty jag and 50 quid in the world.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
I'm glad that worked out for you, but that doesn't mean that that is the reality for everyone, especially for those with serious mental health conditions. As it's story time, a close family member of mine was suffering from stress related depression (the same as the woman in the article), they ended up being sectioned and placed on suicide watch. I fail to see what good would have come of cutting off their lifeline and telling them to go and find a job instead of providing them with medical help.
For Tories, the way they go about doing things is just telling people to basically become more 'individualistic' , i.e. get up and fend for themselves. To an extent it is a good idea to tell people who are actually living off benefits for the fun of it, to go and get a job as it would provide them with some motivation to do so, however, they are failing to see that many people are on benefits because they have no other choice. With a family member who suffers from a disability, I know that personally they wouldn't be able to support themselves without the help from the state and with these recent cuts, he has practically cut down on some of the basics and lives with the parents. Now, I am not using his story to claim that all people are not able to support themselves, many have good jobs and such but the treatment and policies set out by the government is appalling. It is a shame that this individual and many others like him have felt that they have had no other choice but to kill themselves. That being said, increasing benefits may also have its downfall on society too, perhaps focussing on two extremes and finding a middle way to actually help this country and its so called 'welfare estate' should be on the Governments to do list.
this is my opinion.
this is my opinion.
This has happened loads of times this Atos thing is reallly far too ruthless. I support benefits cuts and cuts to public sector, the strategic defence review etc. Labour were too wasteful and now we have to cut the deficit and restore public finances. However disabled people genuinely need benefits and have enough problems without having to look for work based activity etc.
Original post by illegaltobepoor
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/26/woman-killed-herself-benefits-mental-health-watchdog
There you go Tories. Try and get out of this one.
There you go Tories. Try and get out of this one.
It's got nothing to do with the conservatives. When
A woman with a history of stress-related depression
Original post by Guy Secretan
This has happened loads of times this Atos thing is reallly far too ruthless. I support benefits cuts and cuts to public sector, the strategic defence review etc. Labour were too wasteful and now we have to cut the deficit and restore public finances. However disabled people genuinely need benefits and have enough problems without having to look for work based activity etc.
There were a percentage of people wrongly assigned to disability benefits under New Labour - Blair/Brown deliberately encouraged it as a way to massage down headline unemployment. The remedy was bound to be difficult, especially in a cost-cutting environment, but there may have been better ways, surely, than putting mentally ill or heavily disabled people through months of anxious misery, only to be told that they were 'fit to work' in up to 40% of cases completely incorrectly.
The government should put some of that Duncan Smith energy into closing down the tax havens and tax loopholes that allow vast sums to be expropriated from the taxpayer by ruthless corporations. Then the money would be available to properly look after the sick and the elderly.
Original post by Genocidal
Yeah right. Russia is highly corrupt.
Those who're friends of his you can guarantee will have favourable tax avoidance arrangements. His enemies will either leave and pay no tax or be shot and pay no further tax.
Those who're friends of his you can guarantee will have favourable tax avoidance arrangements. His enemies will either leave and pay no tax or be shot and pay no further tax.
So you are saying we should shoot them?
Original post by clh_hilary
Is it really that bad?
For those not in UK it isn't all that bad but people in UK tend to overstate how bad things really are.
Here is my take on this article.
The Women in question was progressing due to the support which had been given to her. Disability benefits enabled her to become part of society. She managed to purchase her own home though a mortgage, She managed to take a work placement and was moments away from the most happiest day of her life until the safety net rug was pulled beneath her feet allowing her life to hit rock bottom.
A lot of people don't understand the lifestyle of a disabled person and are far from understanding a mentally disabled person.
There is no doubt the usual commentators are going to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Well I have now decided I am going to open up about my wider family. This is with only one of my wider family members permission of course.
I have a uncle who is currently 50 something years old. He has Schizophrenia. He cannot leave his house because he thinks people are going to kill him and therefore he requires care 24/7.
He gets ESA, DLA, Council Tax Benefit, Support Mortgage Interest and Housing Benefit.
He currently owns his own home under a home ownership scheme called HOLD which is for disabled people with long term conditions.
He is one of the lucky ones but even he knows the current Government want to see him in a coffin.
As I understand it if this woman lost her ESA she would be struggling to make payments on her mortgage there for she would be at risk of losing her home. Then to top that up she may have thought that it was her own fault for taking a volunteer job and allowing the Government to punish her for working. Add all the related stress/panic and then the feeling of complete happiness & euphoria from a total high all the way down to a roller coaster ultimate low of despair and suicidal thoughts.
As someone who has a mentally ill uncle and as a person who was bullied all the way through high school I can tell you that suicide would of felt like a better place than living in a cruel world.
I will simplify this so even sociopaths can understand.
Becoming a normal human being with a job, social life, home, partner, children and friends is what every disabled person dreams of. Majority of disabled people are humble and would be happy cleaning toilets or stocking supermarket shelves. When a disabled person is so close from obtaining this and then is kicked in the groin the feeling of sadness is unbearable. Trust me I have seen this numerous times.
I was once like the majority of haters on this thread and I will never forgive myself for betraying my own class.
The person who I betrayed was this guy here.
<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: Arial">[video="youtube;5URlGNyXZdY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5URlGNyXZdY[/video]
Since then I've been fighting for what little humanity I have left.
I helped the Tories get into office before 2010. I am never going back. I am ashamed of myself.
The Women in question was progressing due to the support which had been given to her. Disability benefits enabled her to become part of society. She managed to purchase her own home though a mortgage, She managed to take a work placement and was moments away from the most happiest day of her life until the safety net rug was pulled beneath her feet allowing her life to hit rock bottom.
A lot of people don't understand the lifestyle of a disabled person and are far from understanding a mentally disabled person.
There is no doubt the usual commentators are going to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Well I have now decided I am going to open up about my wider family. This is with only one of my wider family members permission of course.
I have a uncle who is currently 50 something years old. He has Schizophrenia. He cannot leave his house because he thinks people are going to kill him and therefore he requires care 24/7.
He gets ESA, DLA, Council Tax Benefit, Support Mortgage Interest and Housing Benefit.
He currently owns his own home under a home ownership scheme called HOLD which is for disabled people with long term conditions.
He is one of the lucky ones but even he knows the current Government want to see him in a coffin.
As I understand it if this woman lost her ESA she would be struggling to make payments on her mortgage there for she would be at risk of losing her home. Then to top that up she may have thought that it was her own fault for taking a volunteer job and allowing the Government to punish her for working. Add all the related stress/panic and then the feeling of complete happiness & euphoria from a total high all the way down to a roller coaster ultimate low of despair and suicidal thoughts.
As someone who has a mentally ill uncle and as a person who was bullied all the way through high school I can tell you that suicide would of felt like a better place than living in a cruel world.
I will simplify this so even sociopaths can understand.
Becoming a normal human being with a job, social life, home, partner, children and friends is what every disabled person dreams of. Majority of disabled people are humble and would be happy cleaning toilets or stocking supermarket shelves. When a disabled person is so close from obtaining this and then is kicked in the groin the feeling of sadness is unbearable. Trust me I have seen this numerous times.
I was once like the majority of haters on this thread and I will never forgive myself for betraying my own class.
The person who I betrayed was this guy here.
<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: Arial">[video="youtube;5URlGNyXZdY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5URlGNyXZdY[/video]
Since then I've been fighting for what little humanity I have left.
I helped the Tories get into office before 2010. I am never going back. I am ashamed of myself.
(edited 10 years ago)
What a ridiculous thread. Trying to make some pathetic political point out of someone's death is pretty poor form.
Original post by tengentoppa
It's tragic of course. But I can't help but feel that's not a normal reaction and that it related to her mental health problems. Sadly, I know a few people with mental health problems who killed themselves for slight setbacks in their lives. Very sad, but I'm not sure it's fair to consider the pros and cons of the cuts based on one unfortunate death.
i think her losing 30% of her benefit is quite a con when this woman was trying to turn her life around.
Adn tell me what do you view to be an acceptable amount of people driven to things like suicide by these cuts before it becomes an "issue"?
Original post by Genocidal
Yes, you will get that response, because we do need to cut public spending.
What's so hard to understand about we're broke? We don't have the money. We didn't have the money before and now we've ran out of funding a lifestyle we can't afford.
What's so hard to understand about we're broke? We don't have the money. We didn't have the money before and now we've ran out of funding a lifestyle we can't afford.
Except to people in the Thames Valley (rich tory voters of course) who were told money is not an issue when it came to the floods. But of course no mention of it for Somerset until the Thames was hit
Original post by silverbolt
i think her losing 30% of her benefit is quite a con when this woman was trying to turn her life around.
Adn tell me what do you view to be an acceptable amount of people driven to things like suicide by these cuts before it becomes an "issue"?
Except to people in the Thames Valley (rich tory voters of course) who were told money is not an issue when it came to the floods. But of course no mention of it for Somerset until the Thames was hit
Adn tell me what do you view to be an acceptable amount of people driven to things like suicide by these cuts before it becomes an "issue"?
Except to people in the Thames Valley (rich tory voters of course) who were told money is not an issue when it came to the floods. But of course no mention of it for Somerset until the Thames was hit
People on ESA are only allowed to carry out volunteer work or work which doesn't exceed 15 hours or £95. Work is usually seen as therapy. But you get these Tories idiots who think just because a disabled person can manage a few hours in a charity shop means they can work a whole 40 hours.
Get real stupid Tories! I want this Government out!
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by JC.
5 years ago I was living with my parents and driving around in £200 worth of rusty jag and 50 quid in the world.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
I wrote a business plan and walked in to a bank with it and came out with 15 grand.
5 years on I've got my own house, several cars and a life and all because I got off my own arse and did something every day.
If you're assessed and deemed fit for work then your full time job is finding a job.
Tell that to all the people on the Your Able forum. Go on I dare you!
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by illegaltobepoor
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/26/woman-killed-herself-benefits-mental-health-watchdog
There you go Tories. Try and get out of this one.
There you go Tories. Try and get out of this one.
Killing yourself is irrational response to hardship. Letting this change policy would be ridiculous.
To exploit a suicidal person for policy change is depraved.
To quote Scrooge"If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population. Good night, gentlemen."
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