Muslim extremists hijack OFSTED inspection

OP

Original post by Ggmu!

When religion is (especially Islam) being involved in education in the smallest way possible week inevitably lead to something bad.

This is so infuriating to read.

Two things that jump out at me is the threat to remove their children from school unless OFSTED bows to their unlawful demands (as if that damages the state more than it damages their children), and their belief that they can coerce the state into forbearing to conduct its lawfully-mandated duties.

It's because of the existence of organisations like OFSTED, and their independence from such threats and influence-mongering, that this country is the kind of place they'd like to live in, and moved to. Do they really want to transform Britain into the place they left?

Reply 23

Ggmu!

Original post by MostUncivilised

Two things that jump out at me is the threat to remove their children from school unless OFSTED bows to their unlawful demands (as if that damages the state more than it damages their children), and their belief that they can coerce the state into forbearing to conduct its lawfully-mandated duties.

It's because of the existence of organisations like OFSTED, and their independence from such threats and influence-mongering, that this country is the kind of place they'd like to live in, and moved to. Do they really want to transform Britain into the place they left?

And in this country, with our culture, with our thinking, we'll bow down, lick their feet and apologise. They truly believe in their heads it's a legitimate law, of God.

I think the British born Muslims are far more radical and extreme than immigrants, for sure. Some born here take every inch of freedom for granted and think that the answer is transforming us into whichever hellhole they originate from....

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Reply 24

CryptoidAlien

Surely this is a misunderstanding. This was probably a response to islamophobia. Muslims don't attack people for nothing, plus it's also a minority. Plus stop being racist.

Reply 25

Hertz

11

I saw no where in the article about Muslim extremists. In other news. UKIP, BNP, and Britain First Christian extremists have opposed gay marriage and invaded mosques telling people they're going to hell. All christians are evil now.

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Reply 26

Ggmu!

Original post by Hertz

I saw no where in the article about Muslim extremists. In other news. UKIP, BNP, and Britain First Christian extremists have opposed gay marriage and invaded mosques telling people they're going to hell. All christians are evil now.

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It's not like that though is it.

Why do you think BNP, Britain First, EDL exist?

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Reply 27

OP

Original post by Ggmu!

And in this country, with our culture, with our thinking, we'll bow down, lick their feet and apologise. They truly believe in their heads it's a legitimate law, of God.

I think the British born Muslims are far more radical and extreme than immigrants, for sure. Some born here take every inch of freedom for granted and think that the answer is transforming us into whichever hellhole they originate from....

Absolutely! Most British Muslims, even self-identified moderates, will naively ask "What exactly is wrong with Sharia law?" and offer all sorts of superficially-plausible arguments about why "true" sharia won't involve chopping off hands and stoning teenagers for kissing each other. I'd say it may even be a majority of such "moderates" will defend sharia in theory (people like Mehdi Hasan, Tariq Ramadan, etc).

Until recently, the vast majority of people in the Middle East (excepting Iran and Saudi Arabia, primarily because we can't actually ask them) were emphatically opposed to sharia law, even without the judicial amputations and so on, because they are opposed to religious law as the primary source of law as a matter of principle, whereas British Muslims lack of experience in that area allows their fantasy to grow unhindered by reality.

This is why revolting European-born jihadists are so ubiquitous in Syria. I think we really need to stop pussyfooting around, start requiring the Muslim community to co-operate in marginalising and neutralising these elements, and make it an offence for a British citizen to fight in foreign civil wars.

Incidentally, did you see the story in the papers about how the police were asking Muslim parents to tell them if they believe their child is planning to travel to Syria to fight (on the basis they can work with UKBA and the passport office, and the local imams, to prevent them doing so), and the Muslim community's response was to symbolically spit in their face. They would literally rather see their child die than work with the police to find non-criminalising methods to stop these instances of British citizens travelling to join terrorist groups.

Syria anti-terror plan slammed by parents and community groups

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 28

OP

Original post by Hertz

I saw no where in the article about Muslim extremists. In other news. UKIP, BNP, and Britain First Christian extremists have opposed gay marriage and invaded mosques telling people they're going to hell. All christians are evil now.

Pure whataboutery.

And yes, it is an extremist position to threaten to withdraw your child from school if the government doesn't cease an investigation into the possibility that harmful, fringe views are being instilled in vulnerable children.

Reply 29

Regardless of what you think about Islam, the OFSTED people has no business discussing sex, especially homosexual relations, with the children without parental consent. What's more annoying is that they know that Muslims don't accept homosexuals.

The inspectors need be fired.

Reply 30

Steevee

15

Original post by Red one

Regardless of what you think about Islam, the OFSTED people has no business discussing sex, especially homosexual relations, with the children without parental consent. What's more annoying is that they know that Muslims don't accept homosexuals.

The inspectors need be fired.

Please tell me this is you being sarcastic?

The children were asked in an assembly whether they'd been taught about Homosexuality, that's not talking about sex.

Reply 31

Original post by Steevee

Please tell me this is you being sarcastic?

The children were asked in an assembly whether they'd been taught about Homosexuality, that's not talking about sex.

Why do you they need to be taught about homosexuality? That is still an inappropriate question, especially to a 9 year old child. If the parents decide their children will be ignorant to something we should respect the parents decision. I don't see why we need to bring Islam into the discussion.

Moreover how does knowing about homosexuals pertain to education.

Reply 32

username1402889

12

Original post by MostUncivilised

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/15/ofsted-luton-olive-tree-school-homosexuality

Of course it has transpired that they were not "questioned in private", the students were asked in an assembly about whether they homosexuality had been discussed by the school, as they are required to do in order to meet the anti-discrimination curriculum. The school governors were clearly terrified that the kids would blurt out what they were being taught (contrary to the curriculum and law) and staged a physical intervention. They've also made threats that their children will not return to school while the OFSTED inspectors remain (no doubt they are being manipulated by cynical school governors).

I'd add, the assertion that teaching about the existence of same-sex couples has to do with "sex education" is cheap and unworthy. In the same way kids can understand adults of the opposite gender being in relationships and family units without understanding or needing to know about the sexual mechanics, they can also know about the existence of same-sex couples without understanding or needing to know about the sexual mechanics.

I agree that sex education, especially that cultivating understanding and tolerance of non-heteronormative sexualities, is valuable beyond question. Contrary to your impression however, parent opposition to sex education - of various forms - is not the exclusive reserve of Muslim schools or families. The attempt to frame this as a specifically Muslim problem appears party to ongoing - uniformly nationalist, frequently racist - social narratives about Islam in this country. Half of all parents oppose school sex education: "the most common reason given was that it is 'inappropriate to teach children about sex'..." (BBC).

Original post by MostUncivilised

The school governors were clearly terrified that the kids would blurt out what they were being taught (contrary to the curriculum and law) and staged a physical intervention...they are being manipulated by cynical school governors.

What are you basing this on beyond speculative prejudice?

Original post by MostUncivilised

Islam doesn't help its cause by being shifty and concealing its true beliefs, or by believing it is above the law

Categorical statements in the negative about a faith totalling nearly 2 billion adherents, and admitting as much diversity as complexity as one would expect in a world-spanning 2/7th's of humanity's population, is manifestly ideological. I have never actually used this word, but this is as Islamophobic as parallel generalisations about mass social groups: 'Jew's are shifty and conceal their truth beliefs', 'Black's are shifty', etc.

Reply 33

Steevee

15

Original post by Red one

Why do you they need to be taught about homosexuality? That is still an inappropriate question, especially to a 9 year old child. If the parents decide their children will be ignorant to something we should respect the parents decision. I don't see why we need to bring Islam into the discussion.

Moreover how does knowing about homosexuals pertain to education.

Not sure if trolling...or just really stupid?

Reply 34

Original post by Steevee

Not sure if trolling...or just really stupid?

When you're at your wits end call someone a troll or stupid. Nice logic, m8.

Quote me again when you've got a worthy retort.

You're just another Islam basher and probably the quintessential daily mail reader.

:yawn:

Reply 35

OP

Original post by Misovlogos

I agree that sex education, especially that cultivating understanding and tolerance of non-heteronormative sexualities, is valuable beyond question. Contrary to your impression however, parent opposition to sex education

Stop. Right. There.

I don't have the impression that Islam is exclusive in its opposition, nor did I imply that it was the case. Contrary to your impression, I won't be drawn by strawmen or whataboutery. What adherents of Islam do appear to be doing exclusively is threatening to withdraw their children from school unless the state ceases its inspection of the school's performance and subject matter.

- of various forms - is not the exclusive reserve of Muslim schools or families. The attempt to frame this as a specifically Muslim problem appears party to ongoing - uniformly nationalist, frequently racist - social narratives about Islam in this country.

And the attempt by certain far-left elements to frame the existence of such regressive views in the Muslim community as a right-wing fabrication is part of an ongoing - uniformly disingenuous, frequently ignorant - social narrative about Islam in this country.

Half of all parents oppose school sex education: "the most common reason given was that it is 'inappropriate to teach children about sex'..." (BBC).

First, this is not an issue of sex education; in case you didn't notice, a citizen may exercise their right to marry with a member of either gender. Educating children about relationships, about the family unit and related configurations, has nothing to do with sexual mechanics.

Second, what do I care if some regressive throwbacks object to progress? Thankfully, education policy is not made by referendum.

Categorical statements in the negative about a faith totalling nearly 2 billion adherents

More like 1.6 billion.

and admitting as much diversity as complexity as one would expect in a world-spanning 2/7th's of humanity's population, is manifestly ideological.

My comments are generally directed at Islam in Britain, and I freely admit that my commitment to humanism, secular values and freedom from religious oppression is an ideological position (despite its basis in logic, individual autonomy and the application of the golden rule). I do, however, also have objections to Islam more broadly on anti-theist grounds.

I have never actually used this word, but this is as Islamophobic as parallel generalisations about mass social groups: 'Jew's are shifty and conceal their truth beliefs', 'Black's are shifty', etc.

It is manifestly different insofar as judaism and being black are inherent traits; Islam is a belief system. As such, it is entirely fair game for criticism and I am well within my rights to paint a picture of my experience of the responses its adherents have offered regarding aspects of its core text (such as casting terror into the hearts of unbelievers, the subjugation of women, and so on)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 36

username1402889

12

Original post by Red one

Why do you they need to be taught about homosexuality? That is still an inappropriate question, especially to a 9 year old child.

Moreover how does knowing about homosexuals pertain to education.

I can think of few things more important to education than cultivating the fundaments of undistorted communication: which obviously extends to excising common prejudice and intolerance.

Reply 37

OP

Original post by Red one

Why do you they need to be taught about homosexuality? That is still an inappropriate question, especially to a 9 year old child. Moreover how does knowing about homosexuals pertain to education.

It is the responsibility of the government to ensure that every school provides children with an education that will prepare them for adult life and citizenship, for university and/or the workplace. I don't think schools teach 9 year olds and younger sex education, but I believe they may have had some lessons about relationships (married, which would include the fact that someone may marry either gender), about family units. I can't see anything particularly wrong with that.

To ascertain whether schools are in fact teaching what parliament or ministers have mandated, OFSTED inspectors will sometimes ask students question. I would add that the claim that a 9 year old was taken into a "side room" and asked "What he knows about gay people" is a complete fabrication by one of the parents. A group of them were asked in a rather roundabout fashion at an assembly about whether the school had taught anything on the subject

You ask why a 9 year old show know about homosexuality; I ask on what basis would you conceal the existence of marriage? Furthermore, this isn't an issue of sexual mechanics. If you have a Disney movie with a prince and princess (a couple) as main characters, a 5 year old would understand they are together without necessarily being fully apprised of the sexual mechanics. Nobody would suggest a child's awareness of the existence of couples sexualises them. It is the same with knowledge of the existence of same-sex couples and related family configurations.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 38

Original post by MostUncivilised

It is the responsibility of the government to ensure that every school provides children with an education that will prepare them for adult life and citizenship, for university and/or the workplace. I don't think schools teach 9 year olds and younger sex education, but I believe they may have had some lessons about relationships (married, which would include the fact that someone may marry either gender), about family units. I can't see anything particularly wrong with that.

You ask why a 9 year old show know about homosexuality; I ask on what basis would you conceal the existence of marriage? Furthermore, this isn't an issue of sexual mechanics. If you have a Disney movie with a prince and princess (a couple) as main characters, a 5 year old would understand they are together without necessarily being fully apprised of the sexual mechanics. Nobody would suggest a child's awareness of the existence of couples sexualises them. It is the same with knowledge of the existence of same-sex couples and related family configurations.

I disagree sex education should be largely the responsibility of the parents and as such they should get to decide when or if their child is exposed to relations which they deem inappropriate, especially at an all-encompassing faith school. The curriculum and the subsequent examination doesn't pertain to sexual relationships, why should the questioning of the OFSTED inspector? The way I see it, the inspector thought it'd be interesting to gauge how sheltered the children were especially since they know that Muslims are averse to homosexuality.

Reply 39

OP