Woman secretly films men catcalling and confronts them
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Original post by SophieSmall
Let me ask you this, if a woman cat-called you do you have any reason to be scared of any interaction that may follow?
What if it was a group of women as it often happens especially on weekend nights ? That would be scary. I'm only one man, 185cm/82kg. Do you really think I could take on 5 women at the same time?
Original post by DiddyDec
Not once I have ever left the house and feared for my safety even though statically I am more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a women. Not only that but a single young man which is the most dangerous category to be in. It is estimated that 11% of men between the age of 16-24 have been a victim of a violent crime. And to add to that more than 2 thirds of homicide victims are male.
But with this in mind, have I ever feared for my safety? No. Someone coming towards you looking dodgy or drunk? Just ignore them. It is completely irrational fear based on what the media tells you. If you are sensible nothing will happen to you.
But with this in mind, have I ever feared for my safety? No. Someone coming towards you looking dodgy or drunk? Just ignore them. It is completely irrational fear based on what the media tells you. If you are sensible nothing will happen to you.
Also this. Men are far more likely to be the victims of random street violence.
I was absolutely right in my prediction before I went to sleep.
This thread has become, like all the other ones, women explaining why this is a real issue for them and men trying to tell them how they're supposed to feel about their experiences and why (even though they've never personally experienced it) they're probably just overreacting or being illogical.
Women in this thread are telling you why street harassment is upsetting, I've provided evidence about the impact it can have and how widespread it is, and still men in this thread continue to be aggressively ignorant and dumb about the seriousness of it. "Buh buh buh isn't it just a compliment?" No it ****ing isn't. Ask any woman if they felt the group of men wolfwhistling her on her way home from work was complimentary. Two women have already explained that they don't find it complimentary, and each time they've said that more men have joined the thread to tell them why they should. It's threatening, sexist and objectifying. It makes them fear for their safety and reinforces sexual objectification. They want to ignore the catcaller, but they fear what the response will be if they do: often the response is verbal abuse, being called a bitch etc, but the response could be physical as well, so they're fearful of that. Often it can escalate and if you look at the statistics I provided earlier there's rational justification for the fear of it.
Oh good I'm glad we have the rational, logical man here to tell us all how we're being so illogical about all this.
dae le STEM?
For someone supposedly logical you're not too rational are you? Because even a close inspection of your logic shows that it is, to use the technical phrase, ****ing stupid. The logical implication is that men should choose not to engage in threatening and objectifying behaviour in public with strangers, and that when they do they should be called out and publicly shamed for their behaviour.
Let's examine in more detail, using other examples, exactly why your logic is ****ing stupid. I want to get to the core of the stupidity.
Murder is just some hand movements. So the logical implication here is that people shouldn't be able to make some hand movements if they don't like it. Makes snese.
Theft is just some movement. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to make movements if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Rape is just some sex. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to rape women if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Does that begin to illustrate to you why what you said was neither logical nor insightful? The logic doesn't work because all you do is you take a serious specific problem, reduce it down to as many innocent core components as you can, and then act as if your simplification has any basis in reality.
Hope that helps.
This thread has become, like all the other ones, women explaining why this is a real issue for them and men trying to tell them how they're supposed to feel about their experiences and why (even though they've never personally experienced it) they're probably just overreacting or being illogical.
Women in this thread are telling you why street harassment is upsetting, I've provided evidence about the impact it can have and how widespread it is, and still men in this thread continue to be aggressively ignorant and dumb about the seriousness of it. "Buh buh buh isn't it just a compliment?" No it ****ing isn't. Ask any woman if they felt the group of men wolfwhistling her on her way home from work was complimentary. Two women have already explained that they don't find it complimentary, and each time they've said that more men have joined the thread to tell them why they should. It's threatening, sexist and objectifying. It makes them fear for their safety and reinforces sexual objectification. They want to ignore the catcaller, but they fear what the response will be if they do: often the response is verbal abuse, being called a bitch etc, but the response could be physical as well, so they're fearful of that. Often it can escalate and if you look at the statistics I provided earlier there's rational justification for the fear of it.
Original post by KingStannis
A cat call is just some words. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to say some words to women if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Oh good I'm glad we have the rational, logical man here to tell us all how we're being so illogical about all this.
dae le STEM?For someone supposedly logical you're not too rational are you? Because even a close inspection of your logic shows that it is, to use the technical phrase, ****ing stupid. The logical implication is that men should choose not to engage in threatening and objectifying behaviour in public with strangers, and that when they do they should be called out and publicly shamed for their behaviour.
Let's examine in more detail, using other examples, exactly why your logic is ****ing stupid. I want to get to the core of the stupidity.
Murder is just some hand movements. So the logical implication here is that people shouldn't be able to make some hand movements if they don't like it. Makes snese.
Theft is just some movement. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to make movements if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Rape is just some sex. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to rape women if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Does that begin to illustrate to you why what you said was neither logical nor insightful? The logic doesn't work because all you do is you take a serious specific problem, reduce it down to as many innocent core components as you can, and then act as if your simplification has any basis in reality.
Hope that helps.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ChickenMadness
So true. Being told you're attractive is just so insulting. No one should have to experience this type of insult.
It's not simply telling someone that they're attractive, it's having vulgar things being shouted at you and on some occasions, even being grabbed.
It's not just a little compliment, it's blatant harassment and I don't see why women should tolerate it.
Original post by forfrosne
Oh good I'm glad we have the rational, logical man here to tell us all how we're being so illogical about all this. dae le STEM?
For someone supposedly logical you're not too rational are you? Because even a close inspection of your logic shows that it is, to use the technical phrase, ****ing stupid. The logical implication is that men should choose not to engage in threatening and objectifying behaviour in public with strangers, and that when they do they should be called out and publicly shamed for their behaviour.
Let's examine in more detail, using other examples, exactly why your logic is ****ing stupid. I want to get to the core of the stupidity.
Murder is just some hand movements. So the logical implication here is that people shouldn't be able to make some hand movements if they don't like it. Makes snese.
Theft is just some movement. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to make movements if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Rape is just some sex. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to rape women if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Does that begin to illustrate to you why what you said was neither logical nor insightful? The logic doesn't work because all you do is you take a serious specific problem, reduce it down to as many innocent core components as you can, and then act as if your simplification has any basis in reality.
Hope that helps.
Oh good I'm glad we have the rational, logical man here to tell us all how we're being so illogical about all this.
dae le STEM?For someone supposedly logical you're not too rational are you? Because even a close inspection of your logic shows that it is, to use the technical phrase, ****ing stupid. The logical implication is that men should choose not to engage in threatening and objectifying behaviour in public with strangers, and that when they do they should be called out and publicly shamed for their behaviour.
Let's examine in more detail, using other examples, exactly why your logic is ****ing stupid. I want to get to the core of the stupidity.
Murder is just some hand movements. So the logical implication here is that people shouldn't be able to make some hand movements if they don't like it. Makes snese.
Theft is just some movement. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to make movements if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Rape is just some sex. So the logical implication here is that men shouldn't be able to rape women if they don't like it. Makes sense.
Does that begin to illustrate to you why what you said was neither logical nor insightful? The logic doesn't work because all you do is you take a serious specific problem, reduce it down to as many innocent core components as you can, and then act as if your simplification has any basis in reality.
Hope that helps.
You equivocate serious crimes to the actions that make up them. I can see why you think this an accurate parody of what i did. The difference is implicit; cat calling is no more than just words that are not inherently wrong. You just don't like it. Whereas you can make a case that rape, murder and theft are inherently wrong in themselves. This is the assumption it relies on.
Having said that, I reject my initial statement. It does not constitute a good argument. I wrote it at roughly 3am in the morning. I shall amend it to something else:
You want to stop freedom of speech for one gender because you feel uncomfortable about people speaking to you on the street. This is both trivial and irrelevant. Your feelings should not dictate the actions of others. Considering it has been established on this thread that women get "cat called" on a daily basis (I have very rarely seen this happen tbh, but whatever), but nothing significant has happened (one person on here said she had been cat called everyday, but that only once did a man do something borderline wrong, ie follow her), so the probability of anything dangerous happening seems low. Therefore, your suggestion it shouldn't happen is based on feelings of fear that something might happen, not on the threat of it happening itself. Going by that reasoning, I think i am quite within my rights to say that people should not where religious clothing, because it might be the case that I happen to think that Muslims are mostly terrorists. Clearly, we should not implement this reasoning onto law.
As a few final notes, I will say that I do not think that you should feel any differently to the way you do about these events no more than I think men should have to hide their feelings about the woman they see walking past them on the streetm, as long as they don't do anything that breaks the law or whatever; I never said that. It makes little sense to me to make value judgments about what people feel.
Secondly, I myself am disgusted by the whole idea of cat calling. It's vulgar and rude. But, in itself, nothing more than that. I certainly do not think vulgarity should be outlawed because of my aversion to it.
that woman needs to man up.
She done that to me i would have broken her phone
She done that to me i would have broken her phone
Also lets be real most girls do not care if you cat call em as long as you are good looking,are respectful and smile at them and not stare and scowl.
Boosts their con fi dance
Boosts their con fi dance
Original post by SophieSmall
I'm sorry are you implying me feeling unsafe is not an issue? Because quite frankly it did used to **** with my mental health and triggers quite a lot of anxiety. But hey as long as men can cat call what does it matter?
You're saying that cat-calling in itself is not an issue, but I think it is. It may not be the whole issue but it's part of it, if a man thinks he can start yelling profanities at women on the street and telling them what he'd like to do to them that's not that far off following them or assaulting them on the street, it's just another step towards it.
You're saying that cat-calling in itself is not an issue, but I think it is. It may not be the whole issue but it's part of it, if a man thinks he can start yelling profanities at women on the street and telling them what he'd like to do to them that's not that far off following them or assaulting them on the street, it's just another step towards it.
I can completely see someone feeling unsafe around black people when reality is that they're not. You'd probably agree that that is not an issue that needs to be solved for their benefit and in fact nor is it really an acceptable way to feel.
I'm not implying that's necessarily the case here but sometimes it is the case that your feeling unsafe isn't really an issue that it's up to society to solve.
I'm just glad that the people in here who are mocking the issue don't have to experience it on a regular basis.
I guess I should film all the times women tell jokes belittling men, since that's pretty much a daily occurrence...though not sensitive enough to care about it.
But anyway, a lot of guys here are saying its just words, thing is it often isn't. You'll probably find quite a few girls won't be overly bothered by a builder wolf whistling from some scaffolding say. But when a guy(s) tells them they're "hot", then wants to try talking to them, wants their number, won't let them walk away etc, that's when it becomes a real problem and it's not that uncommon.
Yeah guys might have girls do it to them and say it's not a big deal, but that's because there's much less of a potential threat. If a girl shouted "oi sexy!" and started trying to follow me, I wouldn't be concerned. But if a girl has a guy to that to her, he is probably capable of sexually assaulted her if he has the intention to, clearly only a tiny minority of guys are going to do this, but the number of rapes/sexual assaults show it's not something you can just ignore. If I was a 5ft 4 girl walking alone with no one else around and a 5ft 11 guy told me I was sexy, asked for my number, kept hassling me and got into my personal space and when I told him I wasn't interested, I'd be pretty scared and if you claim you wouldn't be then you're a liar to be frank.
But anyway, a lot of guys here are saying its just words, thing is it often isn't. You'll probably find quite a few girls won't be overly bothered by a builder wolf whistling from some scaffolding say. But when a guy(s) tells them they're "hot", then wants to try talking to them, wants their number, won't let them walk away etc, that's when it becomes a real problem and it's not that uncommon.
Yeah guys might have girls do it to them and say it's not a big deal, but that's because there's much less of a potential threat. If a girl shouted "oi sexy!" and started trying to follow me, I wouldn't be concerned. But if a girl has a guy to that to her, he is probably capable of sexually assaulted her if he has the intention to, clearly only a tiny minority of guys are going to do this, but the number of rapes/sexual assaults show it's not something you can just ignore. If I was a 5ft 4 girl walking alone with no one else around and a 5ft 11 guy told me I was sexy, asked for my number, kept hassling me and got into my personal space and when I told him I wasn't interested, I'd be pretty scared and if you claim you wouldn't be then you're a liar to be frank.
Surely women are in a better position to give an opinion on receiving cat calling...
Original post by Morgasm19
Why not just say aggressive and vulgar then?
Lol no. You can try and diminish what I'm saying by playing the whole 'you're just scared of men' card. How original. As it happens, I don't have any kind of irrational fear of men. Does it make me feel uncomfortable if I'm going to the shops and a group of men start verbally harassing me, yes. Would I rather that they didn't feel entitled to do that? Yes. But I'm not sure how you deduced from that that I somehow have an irrational fear of the male sex? I never said men as a sex are threatening, but I, like most of the women I've talked to, wouldn't have the courage to confront someone who had catcalled me. Literally catcalling is not a compliment or a confirmation of your attractiveness...it happens to every women. Seriously. It's not like the only women who are catcalled are really attractive, I've been catcalled since I started secondary school and so have all my friends it has nothing to do with looks.
A lot of the time I think it has very little to with attractiveness, for example I was in the city where I study last term and as I was walking past a group of builders on the way back from Tescos (so obvs looking devastatingly gorgeous), one of them made the kind of clicking/tutting noise you'd make towards an animal whilst his friend said 'You dirty old man'. Wtf is the point in that? I'm assuming he didn't expect a positive reaction from me, because he doesn't care, catcalling is like an assertion of power/dominance some of the time it has very little to with letting the person know they're attractive. If it were merely that why use such a demeaning form of expression?
I've already tried to explain to you why catcalling is not a positive in that it reinforces the sexual objectification of women within a misogynistic society but you're not getting it so yeah.
Well, that's your opinion, imo the right thing for you to do would be to stop taking cultural norms for granted and taking things at face value- 'being called hot is always a straightforward and uncomplicated positive thing', also maybe actually try having a little empathy. Perhaps then you would see catcalling for what it is, a sexist practice which happens disproportionately to women for a reason. Maybe then you'd change your mind about there being 'no power dynamics' at work.
I think the fact you said that 'there are people who'd love to be catcalled' really highlights how naive you are, but it's your choice if you want to remain ignorant, go ahead. From glancing at your profile I see that threads about women/feminism seems to be something of a preoccupation for you, well, seems like with your attitude there's not much point in me trying to enlighten you so just keep going with your mentality and go fight the imaginary force of misandry or complain about how feminism is really about female supremacy or whatevs floats your boat. #NotAllMen #Misandryalert
Lol no. You can try and diminish what I'm saying by playing the whole 'you're just scared of men' card. How original. As it happens, I don't have any kind of irrational fear of men. Does it make me feel uncomfortable if I'm going to the shops and a group of men start verbally harassing me, yes. Would I rather that they didn't feel entitled to do that? Yes. But I'm not sure how you deduced from that that I somehow have an irrational fear of the male sex? I never said men as a sex are threatening, but I, like most of the women I've talked to, wouldn't have the courage to confront someone who had catcalled me. Literally catcalling is not a compliment or a confirmation of your attractiveness...it happens to every women. Seriously. It's not like the only women who are catcalled are really attractive, I've been catcalled since I started secondary school and so have all my friends it has nothing to do with looks.
A lot of the time I think it has very little to with attractiveness, for example I was in the city where I study last term and as I was walking past a group of builders on the way back from Tescos (so obvs looking devastatingly gorgeous), one of them made the kind of clicking/tutting noise you'd make towards an animal whilst his friend said 'You dirty old man'. Wtf is the point in that? I'm assuming he didn't expect a positive reaction from me, because he doesn't care, catcalling is like an assertion of power/dominance some of the time it has very little to with letting the person know they're attractive. If it were merely that why use such a demeaning form of expression?
I've already tried to explain to you why catcalling is not a positive in that it reinforces the sexual objectification of women within a misogynistic society but you're not getting it so yeah.
Well, that's your opinion, imo the right thing for you to do would be to stop taking cultural norms for granted and taking things at face value- 'being called hot is always a straightforward and uncomplicated positive thing', also maybe actually try having a little empathy. Perhaps then you would see catcalling for what it is, a sexist practice which happens disproportionately to women for a reason. Maybe then you'd change your mind about there being 'no power dynamics' at work.
I think the fact you said that 'there are people who'd love to be catcalled' really highlights how naive you are, but it's your choice if you want to remain ignorant, go ahead. From glancing at your profile I see that threads about women/feminism seems to be something of a preoccupation for you, well, seems like with your attitude there's not much point in me trying to enlighten you so just keep going with your mentality and go fight the imaginary force of misandry or complain about how feminism is really about female supremacy or whatevs floats your boat. #NotAllMen #Misandryalert
your the ignorant one. Not everyone on the planet shares your opinion. Speak for yourself not for everyone.
And I don't think anyone would disagree that being insulted, isn't insulting. But many would disagree that being given a compliment is insulting.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Annaaaa
It's not simply telling someone that they're attractive, it's having vulgar things being shouted at you and on some occasions, even being grabbed.
It's not just a little compliment, it's blatant harassment and I don't see why women should tolerate it.
It's not just a little compliment, it's blatant harassment and I don't see why women should tolerate it.
Being grabbed is assault and against the law.
Being told you are good looking is just a compliment.
Original post by ChickenMadness
Being grabbed is assault and against the law.
Being told you are good looking is just a compliment.
Being told you are good looking is just a compliment.
It's the manner that they do it in; it isn't too bad if they say politely 'you look beautiful' or whatever but to have a stranger shout vulgar things at you or making comments about parts of your body then it's pretty offensive and frankly, kind of violating.
Original post by Annaaaa
It's the manner that they do it in; it isn't too bad if they say politely 'you look beautiful' or whatever but to have a stranger shout vulgar things at you or making comments about parts of your body then it's pretty offensive and frankly, kind of violating.
If he was hot, you would love it?
Original post by EatAndRevise
If he was hot, you would love it?
Of course not, because it indicates that he has no respect for me (or any other woman for that matter) and that would be an immediate turn-off, no matter how physically attractive I found him.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by GodAtum
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699055/Women-earth-satisfy-man-Minneapolis-woman-28-secretly-films-men-explaining-catcalled-street.html
Not sure what to make of this. On one hand catcalling is a form of bullying but she is going out of her way to seek mens reactions.
Not sure what to make of this. On one hand catcalling is a form of bullying but she is going out of her way to seek mens reactions.
Hilarious. She says she doesn't like to be "cat called". He says its just because he is black.
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Really? Are people still going on about cat calling? It's such a minor issue. Also that woman could do with buying a dictionary and looking up the definition of harassment
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