My view on obesity.
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Original post by LavenderBlueSky88
She didn't say that, I added that from what I've been told by other people, maybe it's not true. Frankly I don't give a ****. I know I'd much rather sort my **** eating habits out than continue to pile my face with crap but just starve myself twice a week. People have been successfully losing weight way before this silly faddy diet came in, it's hardly rocket science is it. So it worked for you, great. I've never heard of anyone else I know having success with it. In fact the most success seems to be through slimming world.
I would again recommend you actually read something about it rather than continuing to make things up in your mind about what it must be like or what it must be about. The main point for a lot of people isn't even to lose weight. It's not a weight loss programme unless you make it into one. But feel free to continue living in the dark. Just stop making up nonsense about things to keep you company in it.
Original post by Ronove
I would again recommend you actually read something about it rather than continuing to make things up in your mind about what it must be like or what it must be about. The main point for a lot of people isn't even to lose weight. It's not a weight loss programme unless you make it into one. But feel free to continue living in the dark. Just stop making up nonsense about things to keep you company in it.
Christ you make it sound a bit like a cult. No thanks.
People have no idea what it's like trying to lose weight.
If you are used to eating a large amount, when you try and cut down you get hunger pains, actual pain, until you eat something. You can try and hold it off yes with Lettuce/Water w/e but then once thats been used up you're left even hungrier and in more pain.
Also some people have very different metabolisms. I can be good all week, then have a Pizza at the weekends and it undoes all my hard work. But I had a friend at school who ate donuts for lunch every day and was under weight.
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
If you are used to eating a large amount, when you try and cut down you get hunger pains, actual pain, until you eat something. You can try and hold it off yes with Lettuce/Water w/e but then once thats been used up you're left even hungrier and in more pain.
Also some people have very different metabolisms. I can be good all week, then have a Pizza at the weekends and it undoes all my hard work. But I had a friend at school who ate donuts for lunch every day and was under weight.
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
Obesity accounts for a major proportion of NHS expenditure, with diabetes alone accounting for 25% of overall expenditure. It's clear given the current increasing rates of obesity in the UK that if this epidemic is not dealt with sooner rather than later the NHS will have a major funding crisis.
It's only fair that these increasing costs are met by those who create the problem through increasing taxes on fast food, fizzy drinks and sugar.
It's only fair that these increasing costs are met by those who create the problem through increasing taxes on fast food, fizzy drinks and sugar.
Original post by Neo-neon
People have no idea what it's like trying to lose weight.
If you are used to eating a large amount, when you try and cut down you get hunger pains, actual pain, until you eat something. You can try and hold it off yes with Lettuce/Water w/e but then once thats been used up you're left even hungrier and in more pain.
Also some people have very different metabolisms. I can be good all week, then have a Pizza at the weekends and it undoes all my hard work. But I had a friend at school who ate donuts for lunch every day and was under weight.
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
If you are used to eating a large amount, when you try and cut down you get hunger pains, actual pain, until you eat something. You can try and hold it off yes with Lettuce/Water w/e but then once thats been used up you're left even hungrier and in more pain.
Also some people have very different metabolisms. I can be good all week, then have a Pizza at the weekends and it undoes all my hard work. But I had a friend at school who ate donuts for lunch every day and was under weight.
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
As someone who is overweight and trying to lose weight, I know perfectly well what it's like. When I started trying cut down I was a kilogram away from being classed as obese.
The hunger pains are probably just your body trying to adapt to a lower calorie intake and as time goes on, it should subside. If your calorie intake is too low then of course it will backfire. Whatever your intake is, just go lower by maybe 500 calories and in time, you'll just how much you don't need to eat.
Everyone has different metabolisms, but if you exercise properly and eat right, it will increase. Your metabolism is not fixed. And forget about how easy some people have it with losing weight, that doesn't matter to you. Worry about how YOU are going lose weight and if you have to work harder than others, then so be it.
Once again, just like with eating less, exercise is something your body isn't used to. But with time, it will become easier and your body will adapt to it. You can take things slow if you want. Take breaks if you need to and then slowly intensify things.
I do agree with you about the diets, but I think it's easy to tell when someone is bull****ting. I'm not dieting, I'm simply changing my lifestyle in regards to what I eat. Less fatty foods, more fruit and vegetables, drinking more water etc...
Fat shaming has been proving to make people fatter and it must stop. We should help and encourage others to lead healthy lives and lose weight.
Just to clarify, I'm speaking from personal experience.
Original post by Neo-neon
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
Also when it comes to exercising, exercising is really hard if you're overweight but easy if you are fit. It's so unfair as you're caught in a catch 22. If you're obese you can't go for a run, because you're carrying all this extra weight on your back, imagine trying to run with 25 kilos strapped to your back?
Also there's so many conflicting messages on what's healthy and what's not?
Every diet tells you X food is good, Y food is bad. Then a friend tells you that's all completely wrong and actually food y is good and food x is bad, then someone else says actually they are both bad try food z, then someone else says no Z and Y are bad, food X is good... and it just goes on and on.
Ridiculing fat people and lowering their self esteem doesn't motivate them to run up to the gym where you can laugh at them some more, it just makes them feel sad and down and leads to comfort eating.
1)A brisk walk for 1 hour every day would shed kgs for an obese person very quickly. Eventually they could run just like anyone else. I can run maybe 7 miles tonight at a good pace but an obese person walking 3 miles would obviously see a greater marginal health bonus. This is all relative.
2)Sounds like obese people intentionally over-complicating an issue to justify when they slip back into a poor diet. This is not rocket science, lots of vegetables and lean meat/fish with complex carbs and fruit too. Drink loads and loads of water. Avoid processed foods, avoid sugar, avoid bad carbs like pasta. 99% obese people on a very basic diet like this would lose a lot of weight quickly. If you're eating lean steamed fish and veg every night, then how can anyone ever tell you it's not suitable?
3) Ridicule is cruel and wrong, but dont confuse people asking legitimate questions on your lifestyle choices to that. Sometimes obese people need to feel responsible and that comes from honesty. As for fat people being mocked in the gym, I have never seen anything like that. i genuinely respect any obese person I see in the gym for the changes they are actively making and I think most feel the same.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
1)A brisk walk for 1 hour every day would shed kgs for an obese person very quickly. Eventually they could run just like anyone else. I can run maybe 7 miles tonight at a good pace but an obese person walking 3 miles would obviously see a greater marginal health bonus. This is all relative.
2)Sounds like obese people intentionally over-complicating an issue to justify when they slip back into a poor diet. This is not rocket science, lots of vegetables and lean meat/fish with complex carbs and fruit too. Drink loads and loads of water. Avoid processed foods, avoid sugar, avoid bad carbs like pasta. 99% obese people on a very basic diet like this would lose a lot of weight quickly. If you're eating lean steamed fish and veg every night, then how can anyone ever tell you it's not suitable?
3) Ridicule is cruel and wrong, but dont confuse people asking legitimate questions on your lifestyle choices to that. Sometimes obese people need to feel responsible and that comes from honesty. As for fat people being mocked in the gym, I have never seen anything like that. i genuinely respect any obese person I see in the gym for the changes they are actively making and I think most feel the same.
2)Sounds like obese people intentionally over-complicating an issue to justify when they slip back into a poor diet. This is not rocket science, lots of vegetables and lean meat/fish with complex carbs and fruit too. Drink loads and loads of water. Avoid processed foods, avoid sugar, avoid bad carbs like pasta. 99% obese people on a very basic diet like this would lose a lot of weight quickly. If you're eating lean steamed fish and veg every night, then how can anyone ever tell you it's not suitable?
3) Ridicule is cruel and wrong, but dont confuse people asking legitimate questions on your lifestyle choices to that. Sometimes obese people need to feel responsible and that comes from honesty. As for fat people being mocked in the gym, I have never seen anything like that. i genuinely respect any obese person I see in the gym for the changes they are actively making and I think most feel the same.
I lol'd at Point 1, because that's exactly what I do, I walk for an hour every day, most days it over runs because I walk too far so it takes longer to come back, etc, it doesn't work.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Original post by Neo-neon
I lol'd at Point 1, because that's exactly what I do, I walk for an hour every day, most days it over runs because I walk too far so it takes longer to come back, etc, it doesn't work.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Complex are higher in vitamins, fibre, nutrients, also take longer to be broken down into glucose preventing a sugar spike and prolonging energy.
I kind of agree and disagree, if I was real fat and i looked in a mirror it would motivate me more to want to lose weight. There's definately an argument.
Original post by Adamsiddle
Agreed. Fat people should be made to pay more tax or at least like a new type of tax/fee for taking up more room.
Is it really fair I pay the same as a man/women twice my size? Nope. They take up twice as much room as me.
I can't go to mcdonalds and get a double cheeseburger for the same price as a cheeseburger... Yeah probably the worst example in the world but I used it.
Is it really fair I pay the same as a man/women twice my size? Nope. They take up twice as much room as me.
I can't go to mcdonalds and get a double cheeseburger for the same price as a cheeseburger... Yeah probably the worst example in the world but I used it.
No-one actually cares though. That's just what people say who think being obese is disgusting and shameful and feel frustrated and angry when they perceive that an obese people doesn't feel shamed enough. I expect they do feel shamed enough. They don't need to be punished for their choices. They do that enough to themselves.
That's not to say we should pander to their extra needs in a way that makes it seem like they don't have any responsibility for their own weight - but seriously, if someone is that uptight about an obese person taking up more space in the UK, that's their own issue. I've never seen it be a problem. It's only a problem to you because you have been socialised to feel shame when you don't have enough self-control to stay slim, and you can't stand the idea that someone else isn't obeying the same 'rules'.
Remember the majority of the time, it's a choice on how big they are. Nobody force feeds them.
Respect to the people who have real problems and physically find it impossible.
Respect to the people who have real problems and physically find it impossible.
Original post by Neo-neon
I lol'd at Point 1, because that's exactly what I do, I walk for an hour every day, most days it over runs because I walk too far so it takes longer to come back, etc, it doesn't work.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
If you can choose vegetables where you would otherwise choose fruit, it will help. You are absolutely right that fruit contains a lot of unnecessary sugar, where vegetables generally don't.
You don't even need to make it complicated. Sign up to My Fitness Pal and be absolutely honest about the amounts of each thing you're eating. You will quickly see whether or not you're overeating. Filling out your meals with lots of low-calorie veg will very much help to make you feel fuller while taking in less energy, though. It's easy to feel disheartened if you're not willing to drastically change certain things while still wanting to feel full AND reduce calorie intake.
Alternatively you could try fasting, as mentioned upthread. The way you talk about hunger pain is a red flag to me - hunger doesn't grow in the way you describe. It will come and pass. It doesn't get increasingly worse the longer you go without food. If that's how you're feeling, I'm afraid a large part of it is in your head. 'The Fast Diet' by Michael Mosley and Mimi Spencer is only £2.80 on Kindle if you have one, or (I think) only £2.95 as a paperback. The start of the book covers a lot of useful info about hunger and stuff, even if you don't intend to fast at all. I also read recently that a morbidly obese guy starved himself for a year under a clinic's supervision (with some nutrient supplements from them every so often and careful monitoring) and he actually lasted that long and lost a load of weight. If you're severely overweight, starving yourself is not going to result in death. You have food on your body. You do need to avoid ****ing up your metabolism though, so short fasts would probably be the limit of what you can do by yourself. You'd also be advised to consult a doctor first etc etc.
Original post by Neo-neon
I lol'd at Point 1, because that's exactly what I do, I walk for an hour every day, most days it over runs because I walk too far so it takes longer to come back, etc, it doesn't work.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Point 2) what is a complex carb? People say fruit is good, then in the next sentence say avoid sugar, do you know how much sugar is in fruit? Do you know how much sugar is in all our food?
Point 3) I have been mocked. I've had people ask me "what on earth are you doing in a gym" I've had people laugh at me when im a bit unsure how to use a machine. I've had some random passer by tell me my technique was shocking (no tips to improve, just told me it was shocking and moved on)
They have these mirrors all around as well, and yes I understand people need them in there, and im not saying remove them, but to fat people it does make you feel very self conscious as you can see all these adonises walking around and theres you short and fat in the middle sticking out like a sore thumb.
Complex carbs are things like porridge, you can google it but these are great. Fruit in moderation of course, a small bowl of strawberries is one thing but 2 whole boxes is quite another. It's a healthy source of sugar, but you only need so much. Diets are really all about lean met/fish and veg really.
Sorry to hear you were mocked, there are *******s everywhere. Best thing to do is keep going and use it as motivation of course. When you get to a certain level of motivation and determination, you just move on!
Original post by Adamsiddle
Remember the majority of the time, it's a choice on how big they are. Nobody force feeds them.
Respect to the people who have real problems and physically find it impossible.
Respect to the people who have real problems and physically find it impossible.
Sorry, that's bull****. There are tons of people who have no idea how to start or how to continue once they've started. There's far too much conflicting information, and there's not enough information about the right things. There's also not enough emotional support in general for people, never mind for people struggling to lose weight due to comfort eating. There's been an entirely disproportionate focus on exercise in the last few years which has clouded the issue as well. It utterly hides the fact that it's 80% diet. The fact that people are told they need to eat breakfast or they'll eat more later (far from necessarily true, the effect can be the opposite) and that they need to eat little and often, snack between meals etc, means that no-one knows what it's like to actually be hungry anymore.
I have said it many times just cycle if you are fat. I couldn't cycle for **** and was able to do 40mile rides without any break in about 2/3 hours with good hills round in essex.
Eat porridge and something lean like beans. Anything high in complex carbs. You look at the packet, the packet will have the fats section. If it is low per 100g(like <5g for a meal or trace amounts) then it's good, check for the carbohydrates content. If it is high in terms of sugars(not high carbs but the low complex carbs i.e. sugars) then it's not good. If that is low then great.
Eat porridge and something lean like beans. Anything high in complex carbs. You look at the packet, the packet will have the fats section. If it is low per 100g(like <5g for a meal or trace amounts) then it's good, check for the carbohydrates content. If it is high in terms of sugars(not high carbs but the low complex carbs i.e. sugars) then it's not good. If that is low then great.
Original post by Ade9000
I have taken what you said onboard, but it seems like we're going in circles. My point is that genetics have not shown to be a MAJOR influence on obesity, but you seem to think otherwise. The NHS comment was simply meant to be light-hearted.
I didn't reply to the wealth argument because I agree with it. These trends follow in regards to western countries, where there is an abundance of food. Conversely, the opposite is true in countries where there is abject poverty, for obvious reasons.
I didn't reply to the wealth argument because I agree with it. These trends follow in regards to western countries, where there is an abundance of food. Conversely, the opposite is true in countries where there is abject poverty, for obvious reasons.
Your claim that genetics have not been shown to be a major influence on obesity is wrong. Named genetic disorders might not be a major influence. That doesn't mean genetics isn't. It's a similar things to alcoholism or drug addiction. Addicts very rarely have actual genetic disorders which mean they're extremely likely to be addicts, but most have a genetic predisposition to be more likely to be addicts.
Also guys, think I'm changing my diet. I really want to get down to 75kg. Want to get into boxing and I'm a bit too short for a heavyweight(6'0) so want to go into a middleweight class.
Think I'm going to replace my carbs like pasta and rice with a salad or beans. So have like fish salad. Will be cheaper as well.
Think I'm going to replace my carbs like pasta and rice with a salad or beans. So have like fish salad. Will be cheaper as well.
Original post by Chlorophile
Your claim that genetics have not been shown to be a major influence on obesity is wrong. Named genetic disorders might not be a major influence. That doesn't mean genetics isn't. It's a similar things to alcoholism or drug addiction. Addicts very rarely have actual genetic disorders which mean they're extremely likely to be addicts, but most have a genetic predisposition to be more likely to be addicts.
So basically they are more likely to get fat, if they take more care and worked harder they won't get fat simple as. Some people don't get it easy in life.
Original post by jam278
So basically they are more likely to get fat, if they take more care and worked harder they won't get fat simple as. Some people don't get it easy in life.
That is really, really grossly oversimplifying things. That's easy to say if you're wealthy and can afford a healthy lifestyle and healthy food, not so easy if you can't.
Original post by jam278
Also guys, think I'm changing my diet. I really want to get down to 75kg. Want to get into boxing and I'm a bit too short for a heavyweight(6'0) so want to go into a middleweight class.
Think I'm going to replace my carbs like pasta and rice with a salad or beans. So have like fish salad. Will be cheaper as well.
Think I'm going to replace my carbs like pasta and rice with a salad or beans. So have like fish salad. Will be cheaper as well.
Original post by Chlorophile
That is really, really grossly oversimplifying things. That's easy to say if you're wealthy and can afford a healthy lifestyle and healthy food, not so easy if you can't.
The healthy food and being wealthy is a load of nonsense. Buying lunch from the chip shop costs £2 minimum and that doesn't even fill you up. A bag of large crisp won't fill you up and that costs 1.50.
Now if somebody just bought a large pack of oats to cook, or bought some healthy beans. You're talking about 60p a meal.
How much does it cost to go for a run or a cycle if you have a bike already? If you don't have a bike then you can run.
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