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Any Anarchists out there?

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Original post by felamaslen
Essentially you are admitting that in order to get rid of capitalism, you need to use force, since capitalism is something which people voluntarily engage in


Nope.
Original post by anarchism101
Possibly? Why you have so little faith in me, CB? :wink:

Can't believe I missed this


Well what kind of anarchist are you?
Original post by anarchism101
Nope.

I love it! :biggrin:
Original post by James Milibanter
mistake #12,098 : In anarchy, everyone is free. Capitalism requires the oppressed. No one is free in a capitalist society, some are just less oppressed than others.

A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).
B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).
D. Force with freedom and law (republic).

The thing with anarchy is that if it doesn't work, the people have the power to revert to another system, however, in our capitalist, liberal democracy, we do not have this power because we are not free.

Also, I do not understand your "how will anarchy stop capitalism?" argument, in an anarchist society, money would become unnecessary. Within anarchy, all occupations are viewed as equally beneficial to society. Since the concept of value is different for everyone and cannot be determined, it is argued that it should not be set and one's contribution to society through their occupation entitled them to be a part of it. Within this system, there is a free distribution of goods, without the need for money.


I do not understand how people are oppressed in a capitalist society. Who is oppressing them? Are you oppressed if I make a cake but refuse to share it with you?

People have the power to revert to anarchy in a capitalist liberal democracy, by creating their own anarchist communes.
Original post by anarchism101
Nope.


People voluntarily trade with each other, ergo capitalism is voluntary at its core.
Reply 205
Russell Brand for Prime Minister....or something similar.
Original post by felamaslen
People voluntarily trade with each other, ergo capitalism is voluntary at its core.


People voluntarily dress up as Smurfs too. No-one argues that therefore anarchist society will be based around dressing up as Smurfs.

Also, capitalism is more than just 'trade' - it requires private property in the means of production, wage labour, and a monetary economy, for example.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Well what kind of anarchist are you?


I drift a bit between mutualism and communism, though I lean more towards communism. Ultimately I think anarchy would be a mix of the two.
Original post by NHM713
Russell Brand for Prime Minister....or something similar.

Russell Brand for comrade, you for comrade, anyone else for comrade, everyone else for comrade :biggrin:
Original post by anarchism101
I drift a bit between mutualism and communism, though I lean more towards communism. Ultimately I think anarchy would be a mix of the two.


What is your view of anarcho syndicalism?
Original post by anarchism101
I drift a bit between mutualism and communism, though I lean more towards communism. Ultimately I think anarchy would be a mix of the two.

I sort of feel that anarchy by intention was voluntary socialism, which is what Bakunin wanted. And any major anarchist society has been based on that. Why? Well because it was society working together, voluntarily (without wage labour), for the greater good.
All that individualist anarchy stands for is a state of laissez faire, let corporations do what they want, even use slave labour. I would argue that we live in a state of laissez faire right now, the biggest corporations can get away with not paying their taxes, in the case of Primark they only stopped using sweat-shops once it was giving them bad publicity, and if a company doesn't want to pay the minimum wage then they can use labour from abroad.
As long as you are an Anarcho-Communist, Anarcho-Syndicalist or any other leftist anarchist, you are right!
Original post by anarchism101
I drift a bit between mutualism and communism, though I lean more towards communism. Ultimately I think anarchy would be a mix of the two.


Just skimmed mutualism on wiki. Any recommended books on the subject?
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Just skimmed mutualism on wiki. Any recommended books on the subject?

I don't really know any specific to mutualism, but it is mentioned quite fervently in Lucy Parson's "the priciples of anarchism".
Original post by anarchism101
People voluntarily dress up as Smurfs too. No-one argues that therefore anarchist society will be based around dressing up as Smurfs.

Also, capitalism is more than just 'trade' - it requires private property in the means of production, wage labour, and a monetary economy, for example.


Dressing up as smurfs isn't something most people feel inclined to do. However, most people do feel inclined to trade, because trade means wealth which means happiness and well-being (for most).

Private property is a human right. Most people would agree. You would have to use violence to abolish it.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Just skimmed mutualism on wiki. Any recommended books on the subject?


The works of Proudhon (particularly What is Property? and System of Economic Contradictions) are the foundations, but they can be quite hard to read, being translations from 19th Century French. Kevin Carson's Studies in Mutualist Political Economy and The Iron Fist behind the Invisible Hand are more modern, and Center For a Stateless Society has a lot of good stuff too, though beware that (in my opinion at least) a lot of modern mutualists have de-emphasised, and even watered down, the socialist aspects of mutualism in order to try and appeal to US-style libertarians.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
What is your view of anarcho syndicalism?


I'm never 100% sure what people mean by syndicalism. Some people just mean it as a revolutionary tactic rather than a system in itself, but others use the term to mean a system of decentralised planning by worker collectives. I like both, but I like different ideas too.
Original post by anarchism101
The works of Proudhon (particularly What is Property? and System of Economic Contradictions) are the foundations, but they can be quite hard to read, being translations from 19th Century French. Kevin Carson's Studies in Mutualist Political Economy and The Iron Fist behind the Invisible Hand are more modern, and Center For a Stateless Society has a lot of good stuff too, though beware that (in my opinion at least) a lot of modern mutualists have de-emphasised, and even watered down, the socialist aspects of mutualism in order to try and appeal to US-style libertarians.


Ew. They are the worstest libertarians.

The idea that not all property is the same, some is legitimate some is illegitimate seems interesting.
Original post by felamaslen
Dressing up as smurfs isn't something most people feel inclined to do. However, most people do feel inclined to trade, because trade means wealth which means happiness and well-being (for most).

Private property is a human right. Most people would agree. You would have to use violence to abolish it.

Trade is human nature, trade for profit is not. :eek:
Original post by DErasmus
anarchy is quite possibly the worst possible thing I can conceive of, i'd take Hell over anarchy, at least it's ordered.



👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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Original post by anarchism101
The works of Proudhon (particularly What is Property? and System of Economic Contradictions) are the foundations, but they can be quite hard to read, being translations from 19th Century French. Kevin Carson's Studies in Mutualist Political Economy and The Iron Fist behind the Invisible Hand are more modern, and Center For a Stateless Society has a lot of good stuff too, though beware that (in my opinion at least) a lot of modern mutualists have de-emphasised, and even watered down, the socialist aspects of mutualism in order to try and appeal to US-style libertarians.

I feel like that Noam Chomsky's ideas may have been watered down slightly for the US libertarians...

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