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Nigel Farage and Racism

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Original post by Falcatas
It is though, one may not discriminate in favour or against one race or nationality over another.

Anyone who does will be punished by the state someway.

Well the EDL, BNP, Britains First, are they punished by the state?
Original post by James Milibanter
Well the EDL, BNP, Britains First, are they punished by the state?


Not sure about Britain First, they don't seem as racist as the BNP, which is pretty much a white nationalist party.

The EDL has no member list and isn't a politcal party.

The BNP has however been forced to change its constitution.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/15/bnp-constitution-non-white-members
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/bnp-forced-to-end-policy-for-whites-only-membership-6704646.html
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Falcatas
Not sure about Britain First, they don't seem as racist as the BNP, which is pretty much a white nationalist party.

The EDL has no member list and isn't a politcal party.

The BNP has however been forced to change its constitution.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/15/bnp-constitution-non-white-members
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/bnp-forced-to-end-policy-for-whites-only-membership-6704646.html

Britains first are probably on par with the other two.
I never said that the EDL were a party.
The BNP are nearly dead, of course they're changing their constitution
Original post by James Milibanter
Britains first are probably on par with the other two.
I never said that the EDL were a party.
The BNP are nearly dead, of course they're changing their constitution


How about this, then? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10792895/Election-candidate-arrested-over-Churchill-speech.html

This politician was arrested for quoting a dead prime minister. Islamophobia and Xenophobia are supposedly both "irrational fears", being phobias, whereas there are clear reasons not to associate with such things. In the same way I could be classed as a Heroinphobic or Stonerphobe. I wouldn't associate with drug addicts, but I don't have a fear of them. It's calculated.

James: you keep trying to claim that racism and xenophobia are the cause of all this rape and pillage. How is this the case?
Original post by Falcatas
Forcing people to associate with others on their justly aquired property is immoral no matter how terrible the opinions of these people are.

It is only moral to use force in order to protect life and property. People do not have a right to be served by others. We do not have a duty to serve others.

A similar think can be said about free speech.
No one has the right not to be offended.

Discrimination and hate speech may be harmful but do not constitute physical harm to people. Hurt feelings don't count.


There are tons of laws and regulations that business owners have to abide by in order to protect worker and consumer rights. Why single out anti-discrimination laws?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Captain Haddock
There are tons of laws and regulations that business owners have to abide by in order to protect worker and consumer rights. Why single out anti-discrimination laws?


Regulations rob us of the ability to choose for ourselves and stifle competition which benefits big companies at the expensive of smaller ones.

Consumer rights are just self ownership of oneself. There are no such thing as 'worker rights' only the right of each person to bid their labour against others without restraint.
Original post by Falcatas
Regulations rob us of the ability to choose for ourselves and stifle competition which benefits big companies at the expensive of smaller ones.

Consumer rights are just self ownership of oneself. There are no such thing as 'worker rights' only the right of each person to bid their labour against others without restraint.


It never ceases to amaze me when people support the destruction of laws that exist to protect them.
Original post by HigherMinion

Racism has been a dirty word since it's inception. A propaganda word formed to guilt the West into accepting multiculturalism and mass immigration. A word used to propel neo-liberalism without dissent. Any dissent would incur the wrath of the Political Correct-brigade and have you carted off to the gulag. These people who go along with the ideas of equality, immigration and anti-racism have a disdain for authority and traditions. Well, the true believers are Marxist/Trotskyite. The rest of the crowd are simply useful idiots who seem to have had this propaganda bashed into their skulls for so long that it's affecting their better judgement.


What absolute rubbish. The word "racism" is not a propaganda word, it is a word to accurately describe something - the belief that a certain race is inferior or superior to another race, and discrimination against certain racial groups that takes place because of their race.

And that last sentence says an awful lot about you - you see someone who disagrees with your views and then claim they are brainwashed and there is something wrong with them, on the basis of no evidence.
Original post by HigherMinion
How about this, then? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10792895/Election-candidate-arrested-over-Churchill-speech.html

This politician was arrested for quoting a dead prime minister. Islamophobia and Xenophobia are supposedly both "irrational fears", being phobias, whereas there are clear reasons not to associate with such things. In the same way I could be classed as a Heroinphobic or Stonerphobe. I wouldn't associate with drug addicts, but I don't have a fear of them. It's calculated.

James: you keep trying to claim that racism and xenophobia are the cause of all this rape and pillage. How is this the case?

I never once made any such claims. However, I don't care that you're islamophobic or xenophobic either for that matter, what I do care about is the fact that you're wrong about both. Comparing a Muslim to a drug addict is completely ignorant of yourself, I could do exactly the same to a Christian or a Jew, the only difference between the three religions are the hats they may or may not wear and the name they give to their god. You may go ahead and quote sharia law at me, and parts of the Qu'ran that may be unpalatable but the incredible majority of British Muslims don't look twice at those parts and the exact same thing could be done to Christians quote the parts where rape victims should be stoned. Claiming that Muslims are the cause of terrorists and ISIS is exactly the same as placing the blame of the KKK and Nazis onto Christians.
Original post by Falcatas
There are no such thing as 'worker rights' only the right of each person to bid their labour against others without restraint.


So you don't just oppose anti discrimination laws, you oppose worker's rights as well? Jesus Christ...
Reply 50
Original post by HigherMinion
Given the comments by UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage, I think it's the perfect time to ask this question. He proposed to abolish most legislation regarding discrimination and prejudice, as enforced by the law. These are laws that enforce quotas on employers which go against a man's freedom to associate with whom he pleases.

Racism has been a dirty word since it's inception. A propaganda word formed to guilt the West into accepting multiculturalism and mass immigration. A word used to propel neo-liberalism without dissent. Any dissent would incur the wrath of the Political Correct-brigade and have you carted off to the gulag. These people who go along with the ideas of equality, immigration and anti-racism have a disdain for authority and traditions. Well, the true believers are Marxist/Trotskyite. The rest of the crowd are simply useful idiots who seem to have had this propaganda bashed into their skulls for so long that it's affecting their better judgement.

This all stems to the dissolution of the family. It's under attack, and racism is partly to blame. If racism was so bad, why do we treat our family members and friends differently to strangers we've never met before? If we were building a business, would we not wish to see our friends and family succeed with us rather than a stranger we've never met?

This isn't xenophobia. Some employers may simply wish for the best of the best, like Chelsea FC or Manchester City, but others should be able to choose without being attacked with a pejorative like "racist".

So, given this, is Nigel Farage a bad man for wanting to deregulate business and giving employers more power over their private businesses and who they can employ and associate with, or is he just a bad man?


Everyone should be able to employ who they want.. what's the point of anti discrimination laws ?
Original post by RFowler
So you don't just oppose anti discrimination laws, you oppose worker's rights as well? Jesus Christ...




Define what worker's rights even are and how they are universal. There cannot be any rights that restrict the freedom of individuals to act in non aggressive methods.

All we need is the right of self ownership (which is universal) to able to enter into voluntary contracts.

Original post by Captain Haddock
It never ceases to amaze me when people support the destruction of laws that exist to protect them.


I never asked to need protecting from these things and it is protection from a non aggressive act.
You should like the type of person that would support laws against smoking, alcohol and drug because they also 'protect us' .

These laws still possibly could exist but would do so under a voluntary basis. Companies that adhere to these principles would possibly have higher reputation than those that don't.

There is no need for a coercive entity to subject us to these laws without our consent.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Falcatas
Define what worker's rights even are and how they are universal. There cannot be any rights that restrict the freedom of individuals to act in non aggressive methods.


All we need is the right of self ownership (which is universal) to able to enter into voluntary contracts.


There are a few that come to mind.

There is a minimum wage to prevent employers from exploiting workers.

There is the right to form trade unions and go on strike, such as over pay and working conditions.

There are unfair dismissal rules to stop employers sacking workers for no good reason.

There is the right to paid annual leave.

There is the right to a safe working environment.

etc.


Someone doesn't need to be doing something in an "aggressive" manner to be doing something totally unacceptable.
Original post by RFowler
There are a few that come to mind.

There is a minimum wage to prevent employers from exploiting workers.

There is the right to form trade unions and go on strike, such as over pay and working conditions.

There are unfair dismissal rules to stop employers sacking workers for no good reason.

There is the right to paid annual leave.

There is the right to a safe working environment.

etc.


Someone doesn't need to be doing something in an "aggressive" manner to be doing something totally unacceptable.


How is exploitation if both parties agree? Are people too stupid to make up their own minds?
There are people willing to work for less than minimum wage but they can't because of the law, so they end up unemployed.
What do you even mean by exploitation? Surely the worker is also exploiting the employer by being guaranteed income regardless of the how the business does.

There is nothing wrong with trade unions who could work with employers as arbiters to ensure the workers are getting a fair deal(in their opinion). However employers should be able to deny employment to anyone in a union if they wish to, I doubt this would be popular however.

Unfair dismissal rules could exist on a voluntary basis, merely by contract. The worker and employment both agree what they think is acceptable and what credible reasons for being fired are.
If an employer wants their female employers to all wear low cut tops there is nothing wrong with this, provided the employees voluntarily agree. I doubt this would occur, however.

There should no right to annual leave unless it is agreed by contract. What choices workers shouldn't concern the employer.
Even with the current laws that say about what minimun should be provided many business actually are a lot more generous.
Rights of leave severely affect small businesses who just can't afford to pay wages to someone who isn't working.

There should be no right to have a 'safe working environment' , but if the employee is injured at work then the employee is liability for their damage so it is their own interested to make there is a safe working environment but it is not a right.
Original post by James Milibanter
I never once made any such claims.


Original post by James Milibanter
there are instances where racism and xenophobia have lead to murder, rape and theft so should be prevented.


Okay.

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