I regret voting conservative - I have made a big mistake

Original post by jelmes96

Wait until you pay taxes

Taxes that the corrupt rich decided. :smile:

There is no justification for right wing ideologies.
Only greed. If I'm on 24k a year, I want to help the unemployed nice person who only gets 15k because
of disadvantages he was not in control of. :smile:

And besides, most people who support right wing ideologies are those who keep
thinking the tories' policies benefit them (that's selfish anyway)
when in fact they only benefit MILLIONAIRES.

No one on TSR will benefit from them because the eton boys ain't got time for TSR. :smile:

They're busy trying to grab onto money the poor generate.

(Sorry Eton, I meant the tory portion. Not the innocent private schoolers.)

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 382

Original post by MrBluray96

Taxes that the corrupt rich decided. :smile:

There is no justification for right wing ideologies.
Only greed. If I'm on 24k a year, I want to help the unemployed nice person who only gets 15k because
of disadvantages he was not in control of. :smile:

And besides, most people who support right wing ideologies are those who keep
thinking the tories' policies benefit them (that's selfish anyway)
when in fact they only benefit MILLIONAIRES.

No one on TSR will benefit from them because the eton boys ain't got time for TSR. :smile:

They're busy trying to grab onto money the poor generate.

I'm right wing. It's not because I'm selfish. It doesn't mean I believe the rich should keep getting richer. That;s not what conservatism is about. It's what you've been told.

Reply 383

Thorsas

8

Original post by jelmes96

Wait until you pay taxes

Yeah! God damn guvermint takin our hard earned cash! What do they even use it for? Roads and infrastructure, emergency services, sewage treatment, schools and healthcare? Who even uses those things?

Reply 384

Original post by jelmes96

I'm right wing. It's not because I'm selfish. It doesn't mean I believe the rich should keep getting richer. That;s not what conservatism is about. It's what you've been told.

Enlighten me. (No really, because I have enough logical ammo to destroy anything the right wing media has
injected into you. I know that sounds too much like I'm a conspiracy nutcase....but it's true.
The world's media is mostly controlled by a few big corporations owned by few extremely rich families.
Right wing ideology only favours the very wealthy.)

Please tell me your reasoning for being right wing....and I will present why it's logically flawed
and morally injust. I'm not being hostile, I just want people to know what they're getting themselves into.

Reply 385

Original post by MrBluray96

Enlighten me. (No really, because I have enough logical ammo to destroy anything the right wing media has
injected into you. I know that sounds too much like I'm a conspiracy nutcase....but it's true.
The world's media is mostly controlled by a few big corporations owned by few extremely rich families.
Right wing ideology only favours the very wealthy.)

Please tell me your reasoning for being right wing....and I will present why it's logically flawed
and morally injust. I'm not being hostile, I just want people to know what they're getting themselves into.

I grew up in poverty. I grew up on benefits. I lived in one of the lowest socio-economic regions in the UK. I went to a special measures school. May I say, all of these, were through no fault of any government. I don't blame anyone for my situation, not even my parents. I've always had to work hard to achieve something. Ever since I got a job, I've had to support myself. Where I am was all thanks to my own work.

I have seen what life is like on benefits. Most people are there through their own fault. Under Labour, you could claim benefits for anything. I disagree with this. This money is wasted. I believe that if it weren't for the kind generosity of our welfare system, more people would get off their arses and work for their own bread. I believe that hard work is the key to escape the viscous circle that is poverty. I believe that we can achieve anything if we work hard and are determined to do so. I believe in the fundamental principal that if we work hard and achieve, it is we that should reap the benefits that society has to give. I believe that it doesn't matter where we come from, but what we have to contribute to society. I believe in free market and capitalism. I am completely against the idea of state ownership. I believe privatisation creates wealth and competition which only strives to create new opportunities and better quality services in the hands of experts.

Reply 386

Original post by Thorsas

Yeah! God damn guvermint takin our hard earned cash! What do they even use it for? Roads and infrastructure, emergency services, sewage treatment, schools and healthcare? Who even uses those things?

IF that was a stab at left wing supporters....Are you serious? I don't think you have researched the basics of politics
if that's the case.
I'm not an expert in politics (I'm actually a science guy)
but I've read enough around left and wing ideologies to know which side
is morally wrong and which is doing the right thing.

Roads and stuff.....yeah they have those in left wing countries. I don't get your point.
It's the other types of spending you should look at. Like bailing out the bankers who get paid too much as it is (LET ALONE the darn bonuses)
so we have to pay for their mistakes.
This is not even the tip of the iceberg.

Reply 387

Original post by MrBluray96

Enlighten me. (No really, because I have enough logical ammo to destroy anything the right wing media has
injected into you. I know that sounds too much like I'm a conspiracy nutcase....but it's true.
The world's media is mostly controlled by a few big corporations owned by few extremely rich families.
Right wing ideology only favours the very wealthy.)

Please tell me your reasoning for being right wing....and I will present why it's logically flawed
and morally injust. I'm not being hostile, I just want people to know what they're getting themselves into.

I think you just need to accept that not everyone will agree with you. Don't tell me why my opinion is flawed. Give up.

Reply 388

Mamoixen

2

Original post by MrBluray96

I'm just wondering why exactly you did vote the tories.Personally I would never vote for a selfish right wing party.
Left wing all the way. Because I believe the rich should help the poor, without which they would be nothing.
I got a million more arguments. Right wingers are just illogical and selfish, simple as that.
You my friend just seem misguided. I'd like to know what convinced you to vote the tories so next time right wing parties don't get in. :smile:

I would hold the same moral opinion even if I became a billionaire overnight.

Tory way is the only way. I'm not keen on Cameron, he has pulled the party to the left, by appeasing the new liberal mindset of the British public.

There HAS to be a reward for being successful, and that is being rich. You and I, are both animals, our species has evolved over time in an ultimate free market environment. We're designed to be competitive with one another, that's the essence of evolution by natural selection and adaptation. All left wing politics tries to do is impose an academic structure on a non-academic framework. The planet, our species, all species have not been designed to be equal. It's life. Left wing politics is a pipe dream for those afraid of the dark and unable to handle the competitive and dog-eat-dog nature embedded in all of us.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 389

Thorsas

8

Original post by MrBluray96

IF that was a stab at left wing supporters....Are you serious? I don't think you have researched the basics of politics
if that's the case.
I'm not an expert in politics (I'm actually a science guy)
but I've read enough around left and wing ideologies to know which side
is morally wrong and which is doing the right thing.

Roads and stuff.....yeah they have those in left wing countries. I don't get your point.
It's the other types of spending you should look at. Like bailing out the bankers who get paid too much as it is (LET ALONE the darn bonuses)
so we have to pay for their mistakes.
This is not even the tip of the iceberg.

I thought it was quite obvious that it was satire :h:

I am very frustrated by people who take the attitude that taxes are just the evil reds taking your money and burning it.

I'm a science guy myself.

Reply 390

Original post by jelmes96

I grew up in poverty. I grew up on benefits. I lived in one of the lowest socio-economic regions in the UK. I went to a special measures school. May I say, all of these, were through no fault of any government. I don't blame anyone for my situation, not even my parents. I've always had to work hard to achieve something. Ever since I got a job, I've had to support myself. Where I am was all thanks to my own work.

I have seen what life is like on benefits. Most people are there through their own fault. Under Labour, you could claim benefits for anything. I disagree with this. This money is wasted. I believe that if it weren't for the kind generosity of our welfare system, more people would get off their arses and work for their own bread. I believe that hard work is the key to escape the viscous circle that is poverty. I believe that we can achieve anything if we work hard and are determined to do so. I believe in the fundamental principal that if we work hard and achieve, it is we that should reap the benefits that society has to give. I believe that it doesn't matter where we come from, but what we have to contribute to society. I believe in free market and capitalism. I am completely against the idea of state ownership. I believe privatisation creates wealth and competition which only strives to create new opportunities and better quality services in the hands of experts.

Bro, the problem with what you wrote is that you're considering the bad of the left wing (yes, left wing ideology isn't 100% perfect,
in fact being a little left centre might be best if you're into the labelling thing)
but you're disregarding the bad of the right wing which heavily outweights anything on the scale, whether it be centre, right centre, etc.

The lazy scrounger thing is a peasant chant from the right wing tories. Yes they definitely exist and there may be a lot of them
but trust me, these lazy people are much less common than you think.
The amount of money the Labour government wasted on lazy scoungers is MINISCULE compared to what the banks have been doing.
This tiny amount of money is not worth crying about. It has been stamped on a little which is good but it was never a huge problem anyway.
It's not fair that some work and others don't but there are bigger ethical problems than that thanks to the tories.

Also, not everyone who doesn't work is a scrounger. Some are disabled, have learning difficulties, etc.
I'm from a poor area too and these politicians just don't live in the real world.
Politicians claiming we can survive on £53 a week and all that other hypocritical garbage. (Let's see them even try.)
It's just disgusting.
You have to look at the lesser of the two evils. I'd rather be against the super rich corrupt raking in the hard earned money
and putting a proportionally miniscule amount back into the system in terms of work and money.
I'd rather tackle that than be bitter about some physically able blokes round my road who drink beer all day on benefits.

I wouldn't listen to these right wing politicians who talk like "hey kids, I worked HARD, that's what I believe in"
it's just hypocritical words. The rich corrupt (I know, annoying phrase but I won't want to group all rich or all politicians in the same boat)
got their nice jobs through little work.
There are people who would do a much better job and with less pay than these hypocrites.
Working hard is not enough. Working at Tesco for 50 years still won't make you successful.
Mr Cameron only had to be born and jump into Eton and boom after "hard work" (lol that's relative)
he's prime minister. Ever heard of a poor prime minister? No such thing.
You work hard and do a politics degree and see if you get to be mr big shot PM. It won't happen. :/
You have a zero % chance. Because the rich look out for the rich. Doesn't matter if you get a first class degree and put
Cameron to shame. This is not fair. Capitalism is wrong. At least to a major extent.

I'm not going to repeat your words to the disabled, the people with learning difficulties, the people on benefits because of their bad backs,
the university rejects, the people with few talents, and so on.
The right wing ideology only works in a made-up land where everyone is born equal.
That has never been the case and these words are just formulated by the selfish rich (not the generous kind hearted ones)
as a sort of "false hope" for us.....the peasants, so to speak.

Everyone should strive to help humanity. But the right wing ideology takes advantage of this
and makes it so twisted that it really ruins people.
Why should education be a privilege for the rich? I can't afford 9k a year.
Education is a NECESSITY. Because if you're not qualified, you can't get a decent job.
Without a decent job, you can't get rich.
Then it just becomes a circular argument.

Reply 391

Original post by Mamoixen

Tory way is the only way. I'm not keen on Cameron, he has pulled the party to the left, by appeasing the new liberal mindset of the British public.

There HAS to be a reward for being successful, and that is being rich. You and I, are both animals, our species has evolved over time in an ultimate free market environment. We're designed to be competitive with one another, that's the essence of evolution by natural selection and adaptation. All left wing politics tries to do is impose an academic structure on a non-academic framework. The planet, our species, all species have not been designed to be equal. It's life. Left wing politics is a pipe dream for those afraid of the dark and unable to handle the competitive and dog-eat-dog nature embedded in all of us.

I don't believe in "survival of the richest". :colonhash:

What you just said is basically "SPARTA!!!! KILL ALL THE DISABLED BABIES. WE WANT HEALTHY BODY BUILDERS WITH 8 PACK ABS."
I won't accept "it's just life" because that's brainwashing material. It's like saying "people kill people, get over it" nah bro. xP
The left wing ideology aims to help those in need. If someone is going to help the world, they don't need the incentive
of a billion dollars. I want to go into research....as long as my pay is adequate (let's say about 50-150k if I'm lucky enough to even get that)
and the conditions are good....I will do my best to help the world.
Those who only see dollar signs in their eyes don't deserve such status. And quite frankly, I wouldn't want their help either.
The bankers are an example of that. :colondollar:

You say left wing is a dream....well that's the point of an ideology....it's a work in progress like democracy.
The irony is that right wing is more of a dream land idea because not everyone is born equally so it's unfair
to say that it's OK to let the first ones to the lake and let the slow runners die of thirst. Why not just....share the lake?
You get my logic?

Original post by Thorsas

I thought it was quite obvious that it was satire :h:

I am very frustrated by people who take the attitude that taxes are just the evil reds taking your money and burning it.

I'm a science guy myself.

Oh....I'm confused, are you left or right wing? I'm gonna guess left with a hint of "I hate when people demonise ALL taxes" . :biggrin:

Reply 392

Original post by jelmes96

I think you just need to accept that not everyone will agree with you. Don't tell me why my opinion is flawed. Give up.

That's pretty rude dude. We were having a discussion and suddenly you're putting your fingers in your eyes and shouting you're not listening.
I'm not forcing anything upon you, I'm just stating you are wrong and I'm giving you the opportunity to learn why.
Whether you choose to listen out of curiosity or ignore out of ignorance is your own choice.
Ain't nothin' wrong with that bro. Don't demonise me. I'm not insulting your opinion.
It was a debate. Simple as that. Besides, "the Moon is made of cheese" and "poor people don't matter"
are opinions too....but they can both be refuted....Just sayin'. Jeez.
I don't need to give up because I have to will power to work hard and....oh wait. (Lol I'm jokin' with ya but seriously...
I can take it. I've had way longer debates than this and I honestly don't mind as long as it educates people in the process.)

Friendly banter? :colone:

And it's not about accepting. It's a logical debate.
Just like if someone said "that murderer doesn't care about peoples' lives"
I'm not gonna stand there and say "well....I just gotta accept it...."
nah I'm gonna lock that guy up....or kill him to avoid him killing more people... :redface:

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 393

Mamoixen

2

Original post by MrBluray96

I don't believe in "survival of the richest". :colonhash:

What you just said is basically "SPARTA!!!! KILL ALL THE DISABLED BABIES. WE WANT HEALTHY BODY BUILDERS WITH 8 PACK ABS."
I won't accept "it's just life" because that's brainwashing material. It's like saying "people kill people, get over it" nah bro. xP
The left wing ideology aims to help those in need. If someone is going to help the world, they don't need the incentive
of a billion dollars. I want to go into research....as long as my pay is adequate (let's say about 50-150k if I'm lucky enough to even get that)
and the conditions are good....I will do my best to help the world.
Those who only see dollar signs in their eyes don't deserve such status. And quite frankly, I wouldn't want their help either.
The bankers are an example of that. :colondollar:

You say left wing is a dream....well that's the point of an ideology....it's a work in progress like democracy.
The irony is that right wing is more of a dream land idea because not everyone is born equally so it's unfair
to say that it's OK to let the first ones to the lake and let the slow runners die of thirst. Why not just....share the lake?
You get my logic?

Oh....I'm confused, are you left or right wing? I'm gonna guess left with a hint of "I hate when people demonise ALL taxes" . :biggrin:

I do indeed get your logic. I don't all together disagree with you. My point is that whether you like it or not, it's embedded in our nature, it'll never work because that's not how the history of mankind has developed over hundreds of thousands of years.

Why spend you're life building a business, providing a service, when your told the proceeds of your personal sweat, pain and years of isolation have to be shared with those who spend their weekends playing video games?

The basis of right wing politics is small government intervention (that's the basis, even if it's not exhibited in modern politic). Now the natural bedfellow of small government intervention is the free market and capitalism. Capitalism is a beautiful thing, if one has the the right drive, determination and direction, they can go from being born in a pokey hackney council flat to finding themselves on the 'Sunday Times Richlist'.

The free market creates incentive. I'm afraid MrBluray96, whilst you're remarks will earn you points as mild philanthropic thinker, you are a billion miles away from reality. We're greedy creatures, it's in our ancestry, if our species had spent all their resources and energy catering for the weak, it's quite likely that you and I wouldn't be here today. Furthermore, if you were to increase taxes on the rich they would leave, is that right of them to do so? You'd say no. But you can't stop them. There is no point in living in a dreamland (which you are).

They'd probably take their business with them, leaving more people relying on the welfare system. (As you use the word irony) What is extremely ironic, is that more people will claim on the welfare state, but tax revenues would decrease, thus creating a dreamland paradoxical situation, in which you have more people redundant claiming off the welfare system, yet tax revenues going down.

You can see, this is ridiculous and this is why left wing politic does not work. You and your left commy comrades are all living in a unrealistic dream world. I may as well be having a discussion on the dreams of Muslims wanting 72 virgins in paradise.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 394

Mamoixen

2

And what you believe has no value. What's true is what counts. I think in general though, left wing virtues have made the world a better place. But having it completely implemented is wishful thinking and completely unrealistic.

Reply 395

Original post by MrBluray96

The right wing ideology only works in a made-up land where everyone is born equal.

That's the left wing ideology

Reply 396

Conservatives believe everyone should have an equal opportunity at success, It doesn't mean we live in such a state. Just like when Labour were in power, we weren't all suddenly born equal.

Reply 397

DickDastardly

13

whyd u vote tory int he first place?

Reply 398

Original post by MrBluray96

That's pretty rude dude. We were having a discussion and suddenly you're putting your fingers in your eyes and shouting you're not listening.
I'm not forcing anything upon you, I'm just stating you are wrong and I'm giving you the opportunity to learn why.
Whether you choose to listen out of curiosity or ignore out of ignorance is your own choice.
Ain't nothin' wrong with that bro. Don't demonise me. I'm not insulting your opinion.
It was a debate. Simple as that. Besides, "the Moon is made of cheese" and "poor people don't matter"
are opinions too....but they can both be refuted....Just sayin'. Jeez.
I don't need to give up because I have to will power to work hard and....oh wait. (Lol I'm jokin' with ya but seriously...
I can take it. I've had way longer debates than this and I honestly don't mind as long as it educates people in the process.)

Friendly banter? :colone:

And it's not about accepting. It's a logical debate.
Just like if someone said "that murderer doesn't care about peoples' lives"
I'm not gonna stand there and say "well....I just gotta accept it...."
nah I'm gonna lock that guy up....or kill him to avoid him killing more people... :redface:

No you're the rude one thinking you can prove an opinion is flawed. You can disprove statements and you can unravel statistics, but you can't flaw an opinion, only an argument. I can debate with you, I don't give a hoot. But you need to start accepting that conservatism isn't all bad. You are completely demonising it. You need to respect other peoples' views more. I don't sit there slagging Labour off. I admire the party a lot and some of their politicians in particular. I see little reason in debating with someone who won't accept certain things. I mean, what's the point, I'm not going to ever convince you of anything. Then I lose, right?

You have completely opened any fault you can with the party and exaggerated. I can give you examples, if you wish for me to do so. I understand that I have made a few generalisations, but that was not my intention.

Reply 399