Marshalling a judge
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Original post by alishah22
Hi all, I do realise the posts on here are all old.. I thought this would be the ideal place for me to share my experience. I am currently a third year law student at BCU (Birmingham) I intend on doing the BPTC at City University, London September 2012.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
Is this what you meant to write? I marshalled an actual murder at the bailey which was pretty serious/grizzley and widley reported and if your going to the bailey you will marshall a far more serious case than attempt - rape, actual murder etc.
You have done well to get so many positions but you only get one or two "points" for doing minis/marshalling no matter how much you do and the more "real" experience you get renders these obsolete so you should try to vary the experience.
(edited 12 years ago)
Alishah, if you're serious about wanting pupillage, then FMQ is correct. Marshalling and mini-pupillages are just a standard box tick. Everyone has done them. I would certainly not include claims like "the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case", firstly because it is plainly not true and secondly because it smacks of desperation.
What are these Vac Schemes with the CPS? That, to my mind, is far more interesting. Who are Hussain Solicitors? What sort of work did you do there? I realise you are in your third year as a law student, so I'd advise you to look as quickly as you can for some paid legal experience and/or unpaid voluntary work.
As an aside, it is probably not a good idea to claim that you have done a mini-pupillage "at the Chambers of Ayoub Khan". Being something of a Midlander myself, I know who you are referring to and the trouble that he got himself into. Furthermore, unless it's a real chambers (which I don't think it is) it's best not to dress up something to be more than it is. That includes using the word "mini-pupillage". If it was work experience, say so. If you were shadowing someone, say so. If it was officially known as a mini-pupillage, then certainly say so. In my experience, pupillage committees/barristers tend to be quite pernickety about those definitions and the Bar is such a small world that someone may ask about you. It has happened to me.
What are these Vac Schemes with the CPS? That, to my mind, is far more interesting. Who are Hussain Solicitors? What sort of work did you do there? I realise you are in your third year as a law student, so I'd advise you to look as quickly as you can for some paid legal experience and/or unpaid voluntary work.
As an aside, it is probably not a good idea to claim that you have done a mini-pupillage "at the Chambers of Ayoub Khan". Being something of a Midlander myself, I know who you are referring to and the trouble that he got himself into. Furthermore, unless it's a real chambers (which I don't think it is) it's best not to dress up something to be more than it is. That includes using the word "mini-pupillage". If it was work experience, say so. If you were shadowing someone, say so. If it was officially known as a mini-pupillage, then certainly say so. In my experience, pupillage committees/barristers tend to be quite pernickety about those definitions and the Bar is such a small world that someone may ask about you. It has happened to me.
Original post by Kessler`
Really? In your third year at BCU? Please let us know how you were able to do that - it would be information of great interest to other applicants that read these forums. Was it one of the chambers you shadowed/minipupilled at?
im reading the words "law firm" and "permission"
it is not at the chambers, it is a criminal law firm that has offered me the second six, this is also known as external training- all this info can be found on the BSB website. the first six you must do with a pupil master- at chambers or other approved organisation that has a pupil master, the second six you can do it with other qualified people who have sufficient experience in the area of law you wish to practice in. when i said 'permission' from the BSB there is an application process which must be filled out seeking permission to do your second six, part or full with an external trainer. Please note you must do the first six with a pupil master (chambers).
''1.2 BTR 42 provides that with the written permission of the Qualifications Committee, part or all of the practising period of pupillage may be satisfied by training (a) with a solicitor, judge or other suitably qualified lawyer who is not a registered pupil supervisor; and/or (b) in an organisation which is not an Approved Training Organisation but which, in the opinion of the Qualifications Committee, provides suitable training and experience.''
however this may be open to interpretation please feel free to correct me, full info can be found at:
http://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines/
please click on Bar waivers, exemption and other application forms for qualification committee
''1.2 BTR 42 provides that with the written permission of the Qualifications Committee, part or all of the practising period of pupillage may be satisfied by training (a) with a solicitor, judge or other suitably qualified lawyer who is not a registered pupil supervisor; and/or (b) in an organisation which is not an Approved Training Organisation but which, in the opinion of the Qualifications Committee, provides suitable training and experience.''
however this may be open to interpretation please feel free to correct me, full info can be found at:
http://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines/
please click on Bar waivers, exemption and other application forms for qualification committee
not at chambers, a law firm has offered me the second six all the info can be found on the link below under 'Bar waivers, exemptions and other application forms for Qualifications Committee'
barstandardsboard /qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines
please note you still need to do the first six with a pupil master- chambers or other approved organisation and then apply for external training to complete your second six else where.
barstandardsboard /qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines
please note you still need to do the first six with a pupil master- chambers or other approved organisation and then apply for external training to complete your second six else where.
Original post by alishah22
not at chambers, a law firm has offered me the second six all the info can be found on the link below under 'Bar waivers, exemptions and other application forms for Qualifications Committee'
barstandardsboard /qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines
please note you still need to do the first six with a pupil master- chambers or other approved organisation and then apply for external training to complete your second six else where.
barstandardsboard /qualifying-as-a-barrister/forms-and-guidelines
please note you still need to do the first six with a pupil master- chambers or other approved organisation and then apply for external training to complete your second six else where.
How common is it for people who just want a first six to get one? If I were a head of chambers, I would take pupils who at least had a small chance of tenancy if they shine. To know they will just go to a law firm would be a bit of a waste..
Original post by alishah22
Hi all, I do realise the posts on here are all old.. I thought this would be the ideal place for me to share my experience. I am currently a third year law student at BCU (Birmingham) I intend on doing the BPTC at City University, London September 2012.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
I have gained/ secured the following legal experiences:
To date I have marshalled two judges, one at Birmingham crown court for three days, second at Bristol crown court for three days. I have also secured marshalling at the following courts:
Exeter crown court- I shall be marshalling the Recorder of Exeter for one week on a attempted murder case (i believe i am the first ever student to marshal a judge on such a serious case, please to correct me if any other student has ever done such case)
Bristol county court-I shall be marshalling a chancery QC judge for two days on a commercial dispute.
The Central Criminal Court also known as the Old Bailey- I shall be marshalling for one week with the ex Recorder of Cardiff.
I have also completed various other mini-pupillages at the following chambers:
Equity Chambers.
St-Philips (which was unofficial).
Lamb Building Chambers.
Chambers of Ayoub Khan.
I have also completed two summer vacation schemes:
Crown Prosecution Service.
Hussain Solicitors.
This goes to show that you do not have to be a Oxbridge student to gain such experiences- My message to all is try hard and never give up.
Hey I'm going to City University and I'm in my third year at BCU too!!! Lol just thought id share that, you have very impressive experiences, congratulations!
Original post by ForKicks
mini-pupillages don't require much work to get.
I completely disagree with you here. I know many students who have easily gained placements due to family connections or because they have been fortunate enough to have met someone. This is not the case for everyone.
I personally know the difficulties in gaining such placements. I had worked in law firms and it was there that I came to know the difference between Barristers and solicitors. I then started looking into getting mini-pupilages as I was clearly more interested in a career in the Bar. Instantly, it was far more difficult to find a work placement. I have got all my work experience alone and it is hard work.
As a law student, I meet people on a daily occasion who's parents are Barristers. It really is unfortunate that I do not have these ties and had to use the standard root of applying online with a CV and cover letter. I'm sure you are more than aware of the competitive nature of the profession, so understand that it can be incredibly difficult to actually get a placement in a set.
It may be, hermon, that you are not expressing yourself in the right way or applying to the right sets. Mini-pupillages are not hugely difficult to get if you know how and where to apply.
I hate to bang on about things like this on an internet forum, since I know it's not somewhere where you will be particularly bothered about spelling and grammar. However, chambers will find it very easy to turn you down if you make glaring errors in a letter which will be their first and only form of contact with you. It sounds pedantic, but mistaking the difference between 'route' and 'root' can send the wrong message about you.
If you like, you can send one of your standard covering letters/CV to me and I'll offer some constructive feedback. I did a fair number of mini-pupillages and, no, I don't have any family at the Bar or who could exercise influence over an application.
I hate to bang on about things like this on an internet forum, since I know it's not somewhere where you will be particularly bothered about spelling and grammar. However, chambers will find it very easy to turn you down if you make glaring errors in a letter which will be their first and only form of contact with you. It sounds pedantic, but mistaking the difference between 'route' and 'root' can send the wrong message about you.
If you like, you can send one of your standard covering letters/CV to me and I'll offer some constructive feedback. I did a fair number of mini-pupillages and, no, I don't have any family at the Bar or who could exercise influence over an application.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Kessler`
It may be, hermon, that you are not expressing yourself in the right way or applying to the right sets. Mini-pupillages are not hugely difficult to get if you know how and where to apply.
I hate to bang on about things like this on an internet forum, since I know it's not somewhere where you will be particularly bothered about spelling and grammar. However, chambers will find it very easy to turn you down if you make glaring errors in a letter which will be there first and only form of contact with you. It sounds pedantic, but mistaking the difference between 'route' and 'root' can send the wrong message about you.
If you like, you can send one of your standard covering letters/CV to me and I'll offer some constructive feedback. I did a fair number of mini-pupillages and, no, I don't have any family at the Bar or who could exercise influence over an application.
I hate to bang on about things like this on an internet forum, since I know it's not somewhere where you will be particularly bothered about spelling and grammar. However, chambers will find it very easy to turn you down if you make glaring errors in a letter which will be there first and only form of contact with you. It sounds pedantic, but mistaking the difference between 'route' and 'root' can send the wrong message about you.
If you like, you can send one of your standard covering letters/CV to me and I'll offer some constructive feedback. I did a fair number of mini-pupillages and, no, I don't have any family at the Bar or who could exercise influence over an application.
Original post by hermon123
I completely disagree with you here. I know many students who have easily gained placements due to family connections or because they have been fortunate enough to have met someone. This is not the case for everyone.
I personally know the difficulties in gaining such placements. I had worked in law firms and it was there that I came to know the difference between Barristers and solicitors. I then started looking into getting mini-pupilages as I was clearly more interested in a career in the Bar. Instantly, it was far more difficult to find a work placement. I have got all my work experience alone and it is hard work.
As a law student, I meet people on a daily occasion who's parents are Barristers. It really is unfortunate that I do not have these ties and had to use the standard root of applying online with a CV and cover letter. I'm sure you are more than aware of the competitive nature of the profession, so understand that it can be incredibly difficult to actually get a placement in a set.
I personally know the difficulties in gaining such placements. I had worked in law firms and it was there that I came to know the difference between Barristers and solicitors. I then started looking into getting mini-pupilages as I was clearly more interested in a career in the Bar. Instantly, it was far more difficult to find a work placement. I have got all my work experience alone and it is hard work.
As a law student, I meet people on a daily occasion who's parents are Barristers. It really is unfortunate that I do not have these ties and had to use the standard root of applying online with a CV and cover letter. I'm sure you are more than aware of the competitive nature of the profession, so understand that it can be incredibly difficult to actually get a placement in a set.
I was speaking from experience. I had average 2:1's, no previous experience (including mooting etc) and secured a large number of mini-pupillages, 4 of which were with prestigious London sets (corporate and commercial). I also do not have any connections with the legal profession and all were given with just a CV and cover letter. I know that other people had the same situation, providing they had 2:1+ from a reasonably good uni. I am also not Oxbridge
All I am saying is that mini-pupillages should not be an indicator of being able to get pupillage, as it is SUBSTANTIALLY easier to get (for anyone).(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by resipsaloq
I enter an unequivocal plea of guilty to that one.
I'd like to say it was intentional, but we both know better than that
In mitigation I plead a long long long day of proofreading and statement checking, and throw myself on the mercy of the court. 
Offer still stands though.
Original post by Kessler`
I enter an unequivocal plea of guilty to that one.
I'd like to say it was intentional, but we both know better than that In mitigation I plead a long long long day of proofreading and statement checking, and throw myself on the mercy of the court.
Offer still stands though.
I'd like to say it was intentional, but we both know better than that
In mitigation I plead a long long long day of proofreading and statement checking, and throw myself on the mercy of the court. Offer still stands though.
I sentence you to telling me all about civil litigation, so that I might actually pass the exam.
I have taken into consideration your early guilty plea.
Original post by InnerTemple
I sentence you to telling me all about civil litigation, so that I might actually pass the exam.
I have taken into consideration your early guilty plea.
I have taken into consideration your early guilty plea.
Civ Lit....ugh. Know your white book inside out is the best advice for that one. My exam was closed book and the failure rate was huge. Our exam concentrated heavily on time limitations for service, summary/default judgement and litigation friends.
Best of luck!
Original post by Kessler`
Civ Lit....ugh. Know your white book inside out is the best advice for that one. My exam was closed book and the failure rate was huge. Our exam concentrated heavily on time limitations for service, summary/default judgement and litigation friends.
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
Closed book here. Out of interest, was yours centrally set (by the BSB)?
Thanks for the luck - will need it!
I've done some marshalling, it is very useful but given the fact that people typically get the opportunity through people they know (I got it through a couple of my tutors at uni), it's not something that is expected of budding barristers.
Mini-p's are easier to get and more relevant.
Mini-p's are easier to get and more relevant.
Original post by InnerTemple
Closed book here. Out of interest, was yours centrally set (by the BSB)?
Thanks for the luck - will need it!
Thanks for the luck - will need it!
I don't think it was. It was the BVC at NLS when I did it, although I know that the NLS model was subsequently adopted for the BPTC.
Original post by DJkG.1
I've done some marshalling, it is very useful but given the fact that people typically get the opportunity through people they know (I got it through a couple of my tutors at uni), it's not something that is expected of budding barristers.
Mini-p's are easier to get and more relevant.
Mini-p's are easier to get and more relevant.
I disagree with you on marshalling. It is a tick-box element of the CV/application. You should be able to get marshalling opportunities through your Inn of Court and through your course provider. That's how it happened for me and most of the people in my year. I got the later opportunities by performing well and interacting with the judges on my first stint, you'll find that the majority of them are very eager to help out if you make a good impression.
As with most things in applying to the Bar, it just requires effort. I have no truck with people complaining that they can't get hold of opportunities because it's the preserve of the socially elite.
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